Too many 9/11 conspiracy theories. Let´s narrow it down.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
You do know that there are different kinds of fire and collapse?

I hope you know by now, since it has been proven that heat destroys DNA evidence?

If the fire was hot enough to destroy what was left of the plane it would have also destryed DNA evidence.



[edit on 12-4-2010 by REMISNE]

Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
You do know that there are different kinds of fire and collapse?

I hope you know by now, since it has been proven that heat destroys DNA evidence?

If the fire was hot enough to destroy what was left of the plane it would have also destryed DNA evidence.



[edit on 12-4-2010 by REMISNE]

This is just conjecture on your part. You're rewinding to a position you've been patiently shown to be false.

DNA was not used for all the victims, but it was possible to use samples for some of the dead at the Pentagon.

Have you contacted the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory? There were apparently over 100 staff working full time there. Are they all lying about their involvement?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
This is just conjecture on your part. You're rewinding to a position you've been patiently shown to be false.

No its not conjecture, i have facts and evindence to support what i post.

DNA was not used for all the victims, but it was possible to use samples for some of the dead at the Pentagon.

But the new DNA testing should ahve been needed for the reasons explained and proven.

By the way can you explain how they identified the hijackers without samples of thier DNA?

Have you contacted the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory? There were apparently over 100 staff working full time there. Are they all lying about their involvement?

Well i have the facts and evidence like from the NIST scientist and other experts about DNA.

Have you cantacted anyone or done anything to find the truth?








[edit on 12-4-2010 by REMISNE]

Originally posted by REMISNE


No its not conjecture, i have facts and evindence to support what i post.

You keep saying that, but when asked to provide it you refuse to post it.

But the new DNA testing should ahve been needed for the reasons explained and proven.

No. You've proven nothing. It is possible to destroy DNA evidence with heat, yes, but there's nothing to suggest that the specific situation of the Pentagon crash would have destroyed all the DNA of everyone on board and those killed in the building.

By the way can you explain how they identified the hijackers without samples of thier DNA?

Yes. Through a process of elimination. The DNA that did not match samples given by victims was assumed to be that of the hijackers. As expected two samples appeared to come from close family members - brothers.

Well i have the facts and evidence like from the NIST scientist and other experts about DNA.

So you haven't contacted the AFDI lab? Why not? If all 100 or so researchers are lying then that should be easy to prove. And you could talk to them and maybe find someone willing to blow the whistle.

Have you cantacted anyone or done anything to find the truth?

I'm largely satisfied on this point. You've shown me nothing to doubt what I've been told. So no, why would I?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
You keep saying that, but when asked to provide it you refuse to post it.

Wrong, i have posted and keep posting facts and evidence to support what i post.

but there's nothing to suggest that the specific situation of the Pentagon crash would have destroyed all the DNA of everyone on board and those killed in the building.

So your saying then the official sotry is wrong about the fire destroying the plane.

Again if the fire was hot enough to destroy the plane it would have also destroyed DNA evidence.

Yes. Through a process of elimination. The DNA that did not match samples given by victims was assumed to be that of the hijackers. As expected two samples appeared to come from close family members - brothers.

But how did they know exactly who the hijackers were by just process of elimination if the hijackers used fake ID?

I'm largely satisfied on this point. You've shown me nothing to doubt what I've been told. So no, why would I?

Well thats normal from someone living in a fantasy world who cannot admit and aceept when facts are shown.

I have to stand by the NIST information and other sources unless you can prove them wrong.

Originally posted by REMISNE


Wrong, i have posted and keep posting facts and evidence to support what i post.

No, you don't. You keep saying that you post evidence. But you rarely do.

So your saying then the official sotry is wrong about the fire destroying the plane.

Again if the fire was hot enough to destroy the plane it would have also destroyed DNA evidence.

You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true. DNA evidence would not necessarily be destroyed by a fire of that nature.

You say the plane was "destroyed". What do you mean by that? Do you mean utterly and completely disintegrated to component molecules? You do understand that if DNA is to be useless all of it must be subjected to extreme temperatures? So it isn't logical to say, the fire reached x temperature, x temperature is too hot for DNA, ergo the DNA must have been destroyed.

But how did they know exactly who the hijackers were by just process of elimination if the hijackers used fake ID?

They didn't. They used other means, such as cross referencing the five distinct sets of DNA data with the information from the list of passengers and other information that the FBI were able to glean about them. You're incorrect to suggest that they were ID'd by DNA alone and you're wrong about fake ID. They hardly used false identities at all.

Well thats normal from someone living in a fantasy world who cannot admit and aceept when facts are shown.

Fact shown? What facts? You keep saying that you show facts and yet you almost never show any evidence of any kind.

Once again, why are you not pursuing the lying liars at the testing lab. All 100 of them.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
No, you don't. You keep saying that you post evidence. But you rarely do.

Well a lot more then most people on here.

You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true. DNA evidence would not necessarily be destroyed by a fire of that nature.

Of what nature, so you are agreeing that the fire destroyed the plane then?

You say the plane was "destroyed". What do you mean by that? Do you mean utterly and completely disintegrated to component molecules?

Well since most photos released of the area show no real parts or pieces of the aircraf then the fire must have destroyed the aircraft.

You're incorrect to suggest that they were ID'd by DNA alone and you're wrong about fake ID. They hardly used false identities at all.

Gee, you really do not know much about what happened. You might want to check out the 9/11 commission report about fake and false IDs.


[edit on 12-4-2010 by REMISNE]

Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by gavron
Those new "tests" were needed to help identify WTC victims, not Pentagon victims. You know that...why bring up that sad old argument, Roger?

So you ARE saying that there were no fires or building collapse at building 7, that they could have used the new DNA testing to help ID bodies.

Roger, are you confused again?

Please show me in my post where I mentioned building 7.

Originally posted by REMISNE

Of what nature, so you are agreeing that the fire destroyed the plane then?

It depends what you mean by "destroyed". I point you to my next question:

You say the plane was "destroyed". What do you mean by that? Do you mean utterly and completely disintegrated to component molecules?

Well since most photos released of the area show no real parts or pieces of the aircraf then the fire must have destroyed the aircraft.

Again, what do you mean by "destroyed"? And if most photos don't show parts and pieces then are you saying that some do? And that therefore it wasn't destroyed? And are you unaware that the plane entered the building and that the photos were taken from outside, so one can't really tell what happened to it from them?

Gee, you really do not know much about what happened. You might want to check out the 9/11 commission report about fake and false IDs.

You asked how they were identified from DNA alone. They weren't. And the false IDs they used were fairly easily blown since they didn't use them all the time.

It's you who should read the report.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
And if most photos don't show parts and pieces then are you saying that some do?

Please read the following again.

most photos "released" of the area.

And the false IDs they used were fairly easily blown since they didn't use them all the time.

So you agree then it would be hard to ID the hijackers by DNA since the used false IDs and the FBI does not keep DNA samples on hand.

Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
And if most photos don't show parts and pieces then are you saying that some do?

Please read the following again.

most photos "released" of the area.

Trick has a point. Regardless of released photos or not, you are still saying "most photos". You are not saying "all photos".

Originally posted by REMISNE


Please read the following again.

most photos "released" of the area.

So, some photos released of the area do show parts and pieces? Most don't, so some do. I'm just following what you've written.

Anyway, you've ignored the most important bit. The photos are from outside. So they're not going to be much help in working out what happened to the plane inside the building.

So you agree then it would be hard to ID the hijackers by DNA since the used false IDs and the FBI does not keep DNA samples on hand.

Are you just ignoring what I write? No one has claimed that the hijackers were identified in that manner.

... Or maybe it was a bunch of crazy terrorists?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
So, some photos released of the area do show parts and pieces? Most don't, so some do. I'm just following what you've written.

I have not seen any photos relased that show parts and pieces of AA77.

Are you just ignoring what I write? No one has claimed that the hijackers were identified in that manner.

Then what are the DNA lists that talk about hijackers being identified?

Originally posted by REMISNE


I have not seen any photos relased that show parts and pieces of AA77.

Oh, okay. That's not what you said a minute ago.

Obviously everyone else has, but you need each one to be personally identified by the man who built it or something, so no dice.

And can you stop ignoring the fact that the photos are not evidence for what you're claiming anyway. Please explain how a photo taken outside the building can prove what happened inside.

Then what are the DNA lists that talk about hijackers being identified?

Indeed. What are they? Where are they? Presumably they are a figment of your imagination.

The DNA was one part of a process which led to their identification. You ought to be able to find this out yourself, really.

reply to post by rush969


This basic concept is de facto ultra-destructive to any hope on finding the truth on 9/11.

The entire basis of criminal investigation is draw from evidence then to form a conclusion not offer a finite sequence of acceptable theories which, by definition under the concept of randomness must be all in some way inaccurate.

The whole basis of the Truth Movement is that a new investigation is necessary as existing "Official Thoery" is unsound. Offering an alternative sequence of wrong or inaccurate ones will send the entire movement to the scrapyard.

There are not too many theories, there are TOO FEW. The necessary number must, by defintion, be infinite.

Originally posted by rush969

This to me is one

Any post you schedule including this phrase by definition makes it SUBJECTIVE and NOT OBJECTIVE voiding any true value that it might have.

Originally posted by rush969
I want to start a thread.
This thread is to deal with

Just like Hitler said that he would "deal with the Jews"?

Just who are you to judge?

The only way to consider the events is on a factual basis. Drawing conclusions because it sound ridiculous rather than looking at the reasons why people hold these views removes possibly vital evidence from circulation and thereofre is bound to cause one to reach the wrong conclusion.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Obviously everyone else has, but you need each one to be personally identified by the man who built it or something, so no dice.

No just actual photos with sources, not just any photo.

I am not like the people who believe the official story and just go along with what i have been told

Indeed. What are they? Where are they? Presumably they are a figment of your imagination.

SO fun and easy to prove you wrong. What is this that states about passengers and hiajckers identified by DNA?

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...
A team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records.

SO WHERE DID THEY GET DNA SAMPLES AND DENTAL RECORDS FOR THE HIJACKERS?

[edit on 12-4-2010 by REMISNE]

reply to post by abcdef


It's nonetheless true that large numbers of people do have what might be termed "non traditional" theories about 9/11 that are both outlandish and often contradictory. It is a fact that a minority believe that a beam weapon brought down the WTC. That some in the TM believe that a plane hit the Pentagon while others do not. And so on.

It's not "against the rules" to attempt to catalogue some of these beliefs. And it's not correct to say that the Truth Movement exists as a single entity in spite of these theories, intent on the single goal of a "new investigation".