Why is it that....

from the moment we're born, we know we're going to die. Yet when someone does pass, we still are ripped in two. We spend our whole life knowing this...yet it still hurts. You'd think after a lifetime you'd be prepared for it...but.....

It may be, Grommer, precisely because we spend our entire life knowing this.

the reason I ask is because we prepare ourselves for several things in life. Marriage, job interviews, etc, etc,...pretty much everything in life we prepare for at some point or another. When I dont get the job that I want, I know it's probably because I wasnt prepared enough for the interview. Does this question make sense? so when you say

'It may be, Grommer, precisely because we spend our entire life knowing this.'

does this mean that if we could change our way of thought to instead of living a life to only meet death, we could lead a life to think that death is not the end? I'm not sure that I wuite understand you're response, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts

I suggest that, as the examples you adduce show, we readily prepare ourselves for things "in life"; things we, or others, have undergone before: alas, death is not one of these. How should we prepare for what is beyond all available experience?
To prepare is, in some sense, to imagine: on what basis can any imagine either death, or dying - the two must -of course -be distinguished.

Death is the unknowable, the unimaginable, the indescribable: it ill becomes inept Estragon to paraphrase the Swan of Avon:so I won't, and Hamlet says it pretty well: "To be, or not to be".

really good point Estragon,I see what you're saying now thanks for the reply!!

Nice topic Grommer, you are suffering from existential angst
www.speakeasy.org...
Existential angst is that feeling you get when you discover that you aren't a drill bit or a box of white-board markers or an anti-fungal cream or any such similar thing. You weren't made for any evident purpose. This makes you feel left out.

All the other things have meaning to their existence. You don't. Why oh why couldn't I have been born as a socket tool kit?

Ecclesiastes 1...

2"Everything is meaningless," says the Teacher, "utterly meaningless!"3What do people get for all their hard work?4Generations come and go, but nothing really changes.

5The sun rises and sets and hurries around to rise again.6The wind blows south and north, here and there, twisting back and forth, getting nowhere.7The rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows again to the sea.

8Everything is so weary and tiresome! No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content.9History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before.

Nothing under the sun is truly new.10What can you point to that is new? How do you know it didn't already exist long ago?11We don't remember what happened in those former times. And in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now.

wow, that's kinda pessemistic. Dont get me wrong, I'm a very optimistic person. I know that my life has meaning and I know why I'm here. However, for example when you have an elderly person who has been bed ridden for almost a year, you cant help but sit there every night and ask...will they pass tonight? will they go easy and go during their sleep? You know for that entire year that they're going to go, and yet, when they go it still rips you in two. Your mind is for that year telling itself that they're going to die any day now, and when it happens it's as if the world ends, you know? am I making sense here at all?

Actually I do understand, although i think I may have got the wrong end of the stick in the earlier post.

At the end of the day I see it as a form of selfishness. You are sad that the person is not there for you any more.

Even when you know that they are in a better place, or it couldn't be worse than their life is at present (the old woman example) it still hurts to be separated.

My grand parents have died recently and although I know they are in a good place I miss not having them around, blood is thicker than water, and the loss of a relative, someone who has known you all your life is not something you easily forget.

I think we are hardwired to flee from death, the organism doesn't want to confront its end. Not good for self survival and repoduction etc if you are NOT afraid of death. All beings fight to live, and the death of another is the end of that fight.

As a result we also free from acceptance of death as a part of life. Look at the Western culture. its entirely about fleeing from the idea of death.

i was actually talking to someone about this last night!

i think somewhere deep in our mind we think that we will live on forever. that is why we procrastinate and put things off. if we really understood that how short life is we might work a little harder and do a few more things in life. youve heard the stories of people who say they have less than a year to live and they say its the best thing that ever happened to them because they really started living.
i think its the same way with death. although at some level we know we are going to die we kind of throw that in the back of our mind and think we will live on forever then when someone does die its a reminder about how little control we have over death and that life really is short

that is the way i think of it anyways. i know everyone is going to die so why get upset about it when i know its happening.

-jesse

ps/ 'no parent should ever have to bury his/her own child'

There's a big chasim between intellectual knowledge of an imenent death and the emotional impact of that. We may "think" we're prepared for a loved one's death, but when reality hits home, it often carries a much deeper impact on out psyche and heart.

Reality suddenly hits home and our awareness becomes focussed on the fact that this person really is gone & we won't see them again on this earth. That implys deep shock & grief, things that must be worked through in stages & done subjectively, not by some plan or schedule.

There are many forms of loss / grief & all take time to come to terms with, process and work through.

Grieving is a deeply personal and internal process.

I empathise with anyone who's currently grieving a loss.

God bless you & hang in there,
Deep

Also there is a maturation effect...
In your 20's you think you are immortal, that life is blossoming before you like a flower, that you have a future of infinite possibilities..

By the time you pass your 30's your options narrow, your friends and relatives start to die, you realise that you are not immortal and only have about 40 years of productive life. Its a heart knowledge, not just a mind assent.

Suddenly life looks like a dead end street and the end of the street is just around the corner. The finiteness of life becomes a reality. You start to see your future self in your parents now, and you realise that your parents who were old when you were a kid, were your age now at that time!!

As a result you either go two ways, try and hide from it, from the physical signs of mortality, by cushioing yourself in posessions, etc Or focus on doing the most you can in the short time you have left. ...

Death only serves to remind you of your own mortality, and the sadness that comes from death could be part of the reaiisation that you yourself will be in the box soon, and the final whistle is not for off.

Originally posted by newparadigm...when someone does die its a reminder about how little control we have over death and that life really is short

I think that it's the fact that we have so little *control* over that is what distresses most people. Yet, all we can do is to try to make our lives mean something positive to others & hope that we have a choice available to make our deaths mean something positive too. What I mean by "hope to have a choice" about our deaths meaning something to others is whether or not circumstance would allow us to save life, even at the expense of our own death....Very few people actually *have* that choice & many decline to take that opportunity (Survival Instinct...).

A good example of giving your life in trade for perserving another life was the reports of the high-jacked plane on 9/11 that went down in Philidelphia without reaching the high-jacker's target...Although there have been conflicting reports that the plane was actually shot down by a US interceptor or even suffered mechanical failure, other reports (based from the "black box" recorder) indicate that the captured passengers stormed the cockpit to bring the plane down.
At any rate, these few people faced the choice of dying when the plane reached the high-jacker's target or dying to bring the plane down & spare the lives of others that *would* have been lost had the plane been able to reach the target.

We may not have any control over when we die, but if lucky, we may have control over *how* we die...I think some of the distress over death is knowing that most of us don't even have *that* much of a choice either.

I'm laughing at these scientific answers with infinite knowledge and wisdom.

Did it even occur to anyone that the only reason we mourn when someone dies is because we realize we will never see that person for the rest of our lives?

see, no scientific infinite knowledge in that answer, just simplicity

same thought.

its very simple.

when someone dies who we have known all our lives, we lose a friend
a part of our life.

we know that the good days with this person are over in our life.


Thats why people cry and feel bad even knowing we all de.


illmatic it it right on the nail here.


peace.

When experiencing the phenomenon of life, you create bonds with people through emotions that you share with. The death of anybody you've ever truly bonded with should cause you to grieve on the unconsciousness of that person, or the fact that that person no longer can experience life. You must dwell on the person's lost privilege to exist in the only world that exists.

"2"Everything is meaningless," says the Teacher, "utterly meaningless!"3What do people get for all their hard work?4Generations come and go, but nothing really changes.

5The sun rises and sets and hurries around to rise again.6The wind blows south and north, here and there, twisting back and forth, getting nowhere.7The rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows again to the sea.

8Everything is so weary and tiresome! No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content.9History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before.

Nothing under the sun is truly new.10What can you point to that is new? How do you know it didn't already exist long ago?11We don't remember what happened in those former times. And in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now. "

I think everybody takes the universe for granted. It's hard for most people to realize how complex this universe really is, I don't think the laws and systems of physics and science can get any more complex than this. Discovery is limitless. We're so lucky we're lifeforms that can think and feel, and have the neccessary tools for an entity to be blessed with absolute experience of the universe with so much depth. The human body is a robust vessel and a great way if moving freely within our flawlessly constructed dimension.

It is normal to be saddened by the loss of a close friend or loved one, but fearing death for any reason is ridiculous and counter productive.

There are cultures throughout the world that actually celebrate a death in the community. Through their upbringing, local influence and education, they believe something positive just occurred with death. I think that these people are doing it right.

We will all eventually cross the foggy river...so think positive about it.

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This has of course haunted Man since literature - our one record - began (and almost certainly long before); one recalls the Underworld in Homer.
I think that, in addressing the issue(s), one would do well to distinguish very carefully between "dying" and "death".
The former is an event, an actuality, the second date on the tombstone. The latter is, perhaps, a state - and therefore easily confused with "life" as if "death" were simply "life" with a minus sign. There is little doubt that cultures have tended to speak of the "afterlife" and to portray heaven, or - for that matter - hell, as going in in time and space - in some sense, rather like life.
This is, of course, slack thinking - though the conclusion may still be true: "death" may simply be "nothing" - there may be only life and not-life.
None of us here knows: we have our beliefs. As such, while I find it hard to believe that many relish the prospect of discovering what death is, it would seem irrational to fear the eternally unknown and unknowable, unless one's personal beliefs convince one that as a result of one's conduct, hell - in some form or another - awaits.
"Dying" on the other hand is rightly feared by most. It will almost certainly be painful, humiliating, inglorious. Most of us Westerners will drag on through Alzheimers, cancer, heart failure, incontinence, pain and drugs to end our days as impoverished terminal patients in some institution while our loved ones hope for us to be put out of our miseries.
That, I would suggest, is worthy of a little dread.

And while it is no doubt germane to this discussion, I remain unconvinced that what we think about the death or the dying of others is in any way the truth about what we feel, or shall one day feel, about our own, individual, death or dying.