Not-guilty pleas entered for 8 Michigan militia members

Not-guilty pleas entered for 8 Michigan militia members

www.cnn.com

"This is not about militias or a group of militias, but about a group conspiring against the U.S. who have shared beliefs that the New World Order elitists are in charge and seek to have one world government and is working with the U.S. government," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet said in his opening statement. "Any law enforcement officer is a foot soldier for the New World Order."

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 31-3-2010 by AnAbsoluteCreation]


Mod Edit - Headline: Please use the original story headline from your source.


[edit on 3/31/2010 by JacKatMtn]

I swear I thought I was reading an ATS thread when I read this article. They are openly suggesting that the NWO is the enemy and must be stopped.

"We have and will return fire," the posting allegedly said. "The question is, will you?"

I am curious to if these guys would ever really initiate harm, or are blowing smoke up their own asses. However, the FEDS sure took them seriously. I wonder if their arrogant conjecture will land their butts in a federal penitentiary.

The group's efforts appeared less than professional at times. At one point, according to Waterstreet, Sickles told an undercover agent that he used a .357 to kill a cat "to see if I could do it, to see if I could kill something I had feelings for."

This to me sounds like BS. They are empowering themselves just like young kids build forts and play make believe. However, I am not saying what they are doing is right, but I am questioning their follow through and if they will land in jail for a long time.

I wonder if these guys have ATS accounts.

AAC

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

"This is not about militias or a group of militias, but about a group conspiring against the U.S. who have shared beliefs that the New World Order elitists are in charge and seek to have one world government and is working with the U.S. government," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet said in his opening statement. ""

They sure are right about that. This is DOCUMENTED FACT.

Any law enforcement officer is a foot soldier for the New World Order.

No. Any law enforcement that VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION is but they shouldn't be killed, THEY SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED, then sent to jail if found guilty.

But we've seen hundreds of cases of cops killing people, stealing, ect... with being ``kicked out`` of the police force for a few weeks until the medias are away, then they rehire them.

I understand why people are mad. Some cops did horrible things and never saw justice... and in this world we live in, there's two things that rule, money and power. When common folks have none of those and are affected directly, a lot of them see violence as the only outcome.

As things get worse, because they are gonna get worse, I expect to see lots of dead cops, CPS workers, IRS agents, ect... and lots of dead citizens...

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Vitchilo]

I can honestly say that I have no enemies in my social life. But when I think
about it hard enough, I guess the NWO could be the one exception. Is it so wrong to consider such globalists an enemy?

Originally posted by Vitchilo

and in this world we live in, there's two things that rule, money and power. When common folks have none of those and are affected directly, a lot of them see violence as the only outcome.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Vitchilo]

This is a certainty in all parts of the world. Some of us resort to seeing them for only... wait for it... here it comes... TERRORISTS.

What else can they do if they can do nothing else?



AAC

Okay. I really think we all have to get over this blame-cops-for-everything mentality. I mean we don't really like police brutality. None of us do. But I think we need to come and accept the reality that there are your good cops, the cops that will protect the law, and, that won't do any of this stuff. And, there are your bad cops- the cops that have been corrupted by the system, and, have been corrupted by the system. Can we just stop lumping them all into the NWO theory, or, whatever anti-cop theory comes up please? I think this is getting childish.

So far the only details or "reports" of what is going on with this whole case is a giant smear campaign. The Fed is crying wolf on so many different fronts is insane. Two birds with one stone doesnt do it justice. They're stated to be crazy, blood thirsty murder plotting christian militias. Its just so way over the top its hard to swallow at this point. I want some hard facts and details on what exactly happened, why this "sting operation" was spread across 3 states just to nab 9 or 10 people and what evidence they have against them. I heard in several articles they had "weapons of mass destruction" And the list of charges against them is steep and in depth to even call them "wagers of war against the United states." Earlier last weekend when the bust went down some offcials said the men merely were facing weapon charges. And for some reason their warrants were "sealed" or in other words, SECRET. Now they are enemy combatants and charged with waging war against the US? Something smells fishy and I cant pass judgement till all the facts and evidence are on the table...

Between this,and these other two threads,along with all the pressure we've seen building,...I wonder if we're nearing the point of no return?


Provost Marshalls to Serve Notice To Governors of All 50 States? Restore America,by TrueAmerican
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nevada: Capitol locked down in wake of threats,by kyle43
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet said in his opening statement. "Any law enforcement officer is a foot soldier for the New World Order."

Wow really?

-The government said its investigation began on December 8, 2008, when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives was conducting an investigation at a local federally licensed firearms dealer that the Hutaree used.

They were following these guys for roughly a year and a half...um ok, so just remember you could be under "observation" in this large of a force, for that long, and still not know your being watched. Scary thought, but from personal experience I know this is easily accomplished.

-"We have and will return fire," the posting allegedly said. "The question is, will you?"

-The government said Stone's plan was to create his own country carved out of four Michigan counties, then defend that country against attack by the "One World Order" army.

These guys aren't/weren't messing around. I think people need to realize what level we are dealing with here. While I am all for a movement and massive change, do we really want people rising up and creating their own country's? I don't think so...

-The prosecutor also said militia members talked about burning the homes of the "brotherhood" -- or law enforcement officers -- and would shoot officers as they left their houses. Women and children of law enforcement officers were considered "equal targets," Waterstreet said.

This group considers women and children as equal targets to their government associate counterparts. The tactic used here as well shows tremendous cowardice.

Our own Military has laws against cowards like this. Cowardice Military Laws

"Acts of cowardice have long been punishable by military law, which defines a wide range of cowardly offenses including desertion in face of the enemy and surrendering to the enemy against orders. The punishment for such acts is typically severe, ranging from corporal punishment to the death sentence."

Yet they have the right idea...?

-"America is the land of the free, but every day we see another Ruby Ridge," the speaker in the recording said, referring to the Idaho site of a 1992 confrontation between federal agents and the Randy Weaver family. "They see us as little people; we need to stand up and say 'No.' "

-"Our goal is a free nation without tyranny. We need to quit playing this game. The time to strike has come. Welcome to the new revolution," the speaker in the recording said."

-Hutaree

Such a bad situation when you look at the facts. Here we have these people, with the right concept, yet their logic is terribly flawed. They perceive anyone associated with the government as a potential target. This to me means trouble because who's to say they couldn't misjudge this call almost constantly from paranoia and get away with mass murder...

Then you think about the fact that they were trying to create their own stronghold country out of 4 Michigan counties? That is madness if you ask me. How are they planning on doing this? By their logic I assume strongarm and murder.

Either we are getting TERRIBLE disinfo...the men did not speak a word...seems very unlikely a plot that thick though...

OR, which I think, we are dealing with some real bad people that thought they were doing the right things, they thought they had the right plan, but in the end they missed the major flaw. This is for US, OUR country! NOT for them and their crazy want to be regime!!!!

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


Agreed with most of what you said. How this plays out remains to be seen, but it is interesting that anyone can form an opinion of the truth based upon that cnn article.

Authorities say members of the Hutaree militia planned to kill a law enforcement official. Then, according to an indictment unsealed Monday, the militia planned to attack the funeral procession to kick off its war against the U.S. government

Then they have irrefutible evidence. (truthfully gained or manufactured)

The ATF's inquiry into purchases by David Brian Stone Sr., who authorities say is the group's leader, allegedly prompted Joshua John Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Michigan, to post on a militia Web site that federal agents were asking the group's dealer for paperwork. "We have and will return fire," the posting allegedly said. "The question is, will you?"

Is that their evidence?

The group, according to the government, planned to incite that attack by making a false 911 complaint, shooting any police officer who responded, and then attacking funeral attendees with improvised explosive devices.

A new twist to the story - 911 calls to initiate the attack. Ok.

The prosecutor also said militia members talked about burning the homes of the "brotherhood" -- or law enforcement officers -- and would shoot officers as they left their houses. Women and children of law enforcement officers were considered "equal targets," Waterstreet said.

It will be interesting to hear in what light this was said.

Lastly, does anyone else feel that the show of force was blatantly excessive considering the FBI informant relayed:

The group's efforts appeared less than professional at times. At one point, according to Waterstreet, Sickles told an undercover agent that he used a .357 to kill a cat "to see if I could do it, to see if I could kill something I had feelings for." At another point, Sickles told the undercover agent he was planning to make the plastic explosive C-4, but Sickles then incorrectly described his plans to make it, Waterstreet said.

At times the alleged conspirators appeared petty, with Tina Stone expressing anger to her husband about her stepson Josh not having a job. According to Waterstreet, David Brian Stone Sr. defended his son by saying he couldn't get a job because he was preparing for war.

To that, he said Tina replied: "Well, I'm preparing for war, but I still have a job."

I think this was a show more than anything. Actually, I really don't know what to make of it. Seems so overkill.

ColoradoJens

reply to post by Smell The Roses


How can anyone take this seriously? They were going to create their own country out of 4 counties. That's hillbilly beer drinking campfire fantasy talk from people who can barely run their own lives. Create a country - that's a joke and these people weren't even close to capable.

So, far it appears all their weapons were legal and obtained legally.

There were no bombs nor any bomb making materials.

When the group practiced making firecracker type explosives using cardboard tubes they were unsuccessful until the FBI agent showed them how to make them work.

I have had many conversations about stupid things with friends way back when I was a lad. Had someone been listening in to these conversation, they may not have realized that the conversation was hypothetical and just fantasizing about the possibilities. How many after seeing Oceans Eleven for the first time talk with your friends about robbing a casino? Not that you would actually do it, just your mind would run wild.

Some of the above conversations in the articles seem to be hypothetical rhetoric. I can't say for sure, but people say stupid things they don't mean to each other all the time. Sometimes just to show off to someone that appears interested.

I am surprised that the Attorney opened in court in that manner. It sounds like they are not planning on disputing things said, just that they are not guilty of any conspiracy.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
reply to post by Smell The Roses

 

How can anyone take this seriously? They were going to create their own country out of 4 counties. That's hillbilly beer drinking campfire fantasy talk from people who can barely run their own lives. Create a country - that's a joke and these people weren't even close to capable.

So, far it appears all their weapons were legal and obtained legally.

There were no bombs nor any bomb making materials.

When the group practiced making firecracker type explosives using cardboard tubes they were unsuccessful until the FBI agent showed them how to make them work.

To me, this sounds like the most plausible scenario. Of course, I still cant side with any arguement since most of the details are unclear. This whole fiasco sounds like a smear campaign against militias, Christianity, and the anti-big government mentality. All just in time for the passing of national health care. Convenient? I think very much so. The numbers are there, but the equation doesnt add up...

After reading that article it is clear to me it is mostly BS and this whole thing is a fabrication by LE.

Here is the most important statement in the article:

"The undercover agent helped the group's members build explosives, Waterstreet said."

As for the recording I would love to hear it in context rather then a 3rd hand commentary on it. Also isn't it interesting the article tries to say its not about militias but in their title is "Michigan Militia Members" and this is not even the Michigan militia. They are trying to appease other Militias to stand down while they railroad these folks and why not it has worked every time before.

These folks are masters at manipulating the masses look at all the folks here saying how great it is they people were taken down. They muddy the waters so well no one can tell for sure if this was a legit bust or a complete railroad job so everyone just ignores it. Gotta hand it to these guys they are damn good at it!

[edit on 1-4-2010 by hawkiye]