Baby Bible Bashers, Christian child abuse?

Originally posted by Donny 4 million


This one? There are thousands more. Should we take them one at a time?

Names of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the Hebrew scriptures the Jewish name of God is considered sacred and, out of deep respect for the name, Jews do not say the name of God and do not erase ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God - Similar

I am not sure which one. They are varied and do not exactly specify. They are all using the bible and all but since my baptist friends claim that they have a different god than the Koreshians did, I cannot say for sure which god these kids have specifically adopted as their imaginary friend. Sorry.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty


Ok, maybe this is where the confusion is at - let's look at the definition of "kill" , "put to death" and "murder".

I can tell you right now, this is NOT where the confusion is. Let me help you. I said you god condoned murder. You said he did not. I pointed out that he advocated death for homosexuals. You said he was not instructing anyone to kill them so he did not condone murder. Then we get to the part where he does indeed instruct people to carry out stoning executions. Then you back track and say that he does ask people to kill but it is ok because he says so. This all contradicts your original point as well as the idea that no man was given authority to judge guilt or innocence.

If a person is found guilty of a crime/sin, and is justified via God/Bible for that person to suffer "death", then it would not be considered "murder".

See, this is the problem right here. Found guilty by whom? Judge not, let ye be judged right?

So who did your god grant authority to make this judgment then? You know that in the Unites States, innocent people are executed all the time. Our justice system is far from perfect so obviously you god did not mean that.

However, if it is a death caused by someone with purely malicious intent, then yes, it would be considered "murder".

Follow along with me, won't you. It is your duty to not suffer a witch to live, correct? So how do you know who is and is not a witch without committing the sin of judgment first?

For example, capital punishment - The Bible says murderers are to be "put to death". That would be the consequences (punishment) for the particular sin or crime. According to God/Bible, a murderer is to be executed, and his soul is sent directly to God for judgement.

By another man who has no god given right to judge. That make sense to you?

But does that fall under the category of "murder"? No - because it was a justified "killing" - for punishment.

Not if it was decided and carried out by another man. He among you who is without sin, cast the first tone eh? It seems to me that it is clear that you have no right to even step up to accuse, let alone judge. So who decides who deserves to be justifiably killed?

You have to remember that there are different definitions for "murder", "put to death" and "kill/killing". They are not one in the same.

I know that but a simple statement saying that you should not suffer a witch to live, is condoning murder. Just because you think god says it is ok because witches are so bad. Are you really tying to tell me that if you go kill someone with rocks because they grow herbs in their garden is not murder?

So my final answer still remains - the Bible, nor God, does not condone "murder".
However, he DOES condone the 'killing' of certain people for punishment of their sins. That is the difference.

No, that is too simplistic. Your god is not Nixon and I think both would be insulted by the insinuation.

If a god tells you that it is your job, duty, requirement to take the life of other people just because they sinned, then he is condoning murder. People such as yourself do not even fully understand what is and is not a sin according to that book so you are certainly in no position to decide that someone should be killed for worshiping a tree. Rationalize it all you like but taking a life for any reason other than self preservation is murder.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
The Bible tells us, the believers, to judge righteously.

That "Judge thou not" line has been taken out of context - like most all of the other overused lines.

You can read this where it discusses that Christians are instructed to judge - if you would just read the Bible you would know this.

OK Cool!!!! Thanks for that. This should really make everything pretty simple moving forward. Now that I fully understand that as a Christian it is your job to judge. Please tell me how exactly you decide that someone is a witch that deserves to die. I would like to see the standard that your god set up for you by which to decide exactly who should die as a witch. I will be asking for sources too by the way!

[edit on 26-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

This is why most non believers have such a negative view on God and the Bible - because non believers usually twist the words, add or remove words, all to suit their own beliefs or agendas.

Well you have been completely wrong in trying to prove that so far. You told me my quote about killing a witch was wrong and provide a line about killing a witch. FAIL.

You said Exodus did not mention witches at all and provided one verse that was just one verse away from where Exodus talks about witches.

Who is twisting the bible?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

"Entice" has many meanings - but if she was "raped" I would be willing to bet that God would have made sure it was written in such a way as to imply that. To me, "entice" doesn't mean "against her will" or "raped".

"Entice" was not the part that points out she has no say in any of what is happening to her. Not sure why you centered on that word to make that case but I certainly did not.

Why do you think the Bible warned us of altering His Word - in Revelations, it clearly states:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

But what has mankind done? Exactly what God told him not to.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

Find me one bible that has not already been perverted by man or else your entire argument falls apart right here.

Originally posted by pieman
so what do you teach your children about pedophiles, rapists and murders?

if teaching your children to judge others is abuse then all our kids will be taken into care, the idea is an utter nonsense.

I never claimed to be an xtian so I do not need to be held to their standards. I know it is upsetting when someone calls you out on your own little book but you cannot paint me with that brush. I certainly teach my kids to judge. What I do NOT do, is teach them they have the right in apply punishment, especially DEATH. I also do not read a book of Fairy Tales about a god that tells them to love everyone and kill witches, tell them it is all true, and expect them to turn out ok.

I can teach my kids to judge because you are going to have a really hard time finding any flaws in my religion.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

lol I don't think you are a jerk -

You just refuse to let me have anything, don't you?

I think you are just like me - a person in this world that is looking to do the right thing and be a productive member of society. But like you, I, and every one else on this planet, none of us can never seem to get it right - that is human nature. We are all in that same boat of life out here.

My pitch is that Jesus is the only escape from this miserable sinful life - period. And that is what I pray for all to come to believe.

I do agree that we have a well documented history of not getting it right. We are all trying and many of us try different methods. Some work, some don't. As far as I can tell, for each Atheist doing good things, I can find a religious man doing bad things. I guess it all evens out but at least religion makes things more interesting.

Rage against the sheeple !!

At least your cause is noble and all. I just have a really hard time buying into it. When I think about being a productive member of society, I have a really hard time reconciling the idea that I should be out killing anyone who mixes cotton and silk.


[edit on 25-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by LarryLove
What age group is this reading list aimed to?

Think it is aimed at the same age group as the kids in the videos who are reading a book full of rape, murder, infanticide, incest, homosexuality, sodomy, brutality, and every single sin in it?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by LibertyLover

 

You should research the USA's Safe School Czar's "agenda" and get back with me on your doubts about the "homosexual agenda".

It is a real eye opener. I posted some links a page or so back.

This makes no sense. If any of the books on that list are offensive for you to have children read, then why is the bible not among them? It is no less offensive in content than anything on that list. Do you think children should be kept from reading the bible as well then?

Originally posted by Cobra5000
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

No matter what translation you use (though you might consider a better one) you are not quoting the laws of Christians. These are the old laws that became null and void after Jesus Christ entered the world. If you want to "prove" to Christians that their faith is hateful then you need to quote directly from the New Testament.

This is a fallacious argument presented by people that either do not read the bible or have twisted it. Nowhere does Jesus say that he came to do away with the old laws. The bible does not say anywhere that Jesus coming does away with the old laws. This is an old and tired argument not backed up by one single verse in the bible.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

And I agree with you on that there are billions and billions of people that probably live very constructive lives - helping their community, no crimes, donating to all the fundraisers....... but being "good" doesn't gain anyone entry into God's Heaven. It just doesn't work that way - it's not based on "works" alone. Works are a part of it as we are instructed to live Godly lives, helping your neighbors, etc - but just being good isn't what will get you there.

According to your bible, which person would you god find more valuable.

person A: Lives a good life and does good things.

person B: Lives a good life and does good things so that he can gain entry into the kingdom of Heaven.

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
You may well believe these children are being abused and indoctrinated. At the end of the day, they will reach a point of decision and maturity in life where they can see things for themselves and cast off what they have been taught.
Alternatively, they may well embrace it with the mature conscientious free minded decision of an adult. At very worst, they are being taught to be ignorant and stupid. But they're not 'hurting' anyone.
I have posted a link below that shows adults approvingly instructing a child in the ways of the koran. Out of all the videos posted so far, tell me which one is the real expose on child abuse and indoctrination?

www.answeringmuslims.com...

You should really do some research on developmental psychology. 7 years olds are easy abuse, brainwash, damage for good with nothing more than words. To say that abuse is ok because they will outgrow it is entirely ignorant of how a child's brain actually works.

Originally posted by randyvs

If your asking me to find the word hate. As in God said he hates this or that. There are a few occurances I have read they will be hard for me to find though. I did my best to show you there will be judgement. I think
you can see it's not all about love.

It is obviously not all about love. I believe that is part of my problem here. It contradicts itself as many times as possible. I am indeed asking you to find the word hate though.

But I believe the blood is powerful enough that all could be saved if all would only choose to be.

I am still lost. What blood? Jesus'? How will it save? Drinking it? Bathing in it? Have you been watching "Demon Knight?"

Originally posted by randyvs

Made acceptable to God by the blood.
As an all loving God would do, he has provided a way.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]

I guess what I am saying is that I need a few more verbs or something.

Originally posted by LarryLove
You could almost imagine this dialogue taking place in a bar. Religion being one of the three staples of conversation. Politics and sex being the others.

Some ATS members sure have some strong convictions and that's a good thing. How many of you guys are parents and would you allow your children to preach, perform in beauty pageants or be taught creationism in the same was as the museum episode?

Not a freakin chance!!!!!!!

I am not sure which one would be more evil. I cannot even consider the latter but I can at least admit I have imagined how entertaining a little preacher would be. I would have to teach him to be super over the top flamboyant and crazy though. Not that I would do it but I am finding a lot of humor in some 7 year old faith healer running around inside a tent telling the sinners he can bring them home.

Seriously, no. Kids should be kids. I cannot see any benefit in making them pretend to understand and teach about things they obviously have no concept of themselves yet. If I were religious, I would really rather have them learning, living, and experiencing the bible long before they were set up to be teachers of it. I cannot imagine anyone too young to have even had a sexual urge has enough understanding of desire and sin to speak of it.

I would be afraid that setting them up as an authority of things they have no real frame of reference for might even close them up to actually learning about it when the time comes.

The beauty pageants just seem creepy and damaging. 4 year old girls being taught that beauty, tans, fake teeth, etc is important at all, let alone above most everything else cannot be healthy.

Originally posted by TELEX
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Actually, no I do not see what you mean about blood.

The blood thing was a throw back to the roots of Judaism in Egypt, where the blood of the sacrifice (commonly bovine) was smeared on the temple pillars.

The cannibalistic nature of the Eucharist/communion was also practiced by other religions, I don;t have time to go into detail at the mo but could dig the info out later if you want.

What is notable is that the consumption of blood was probably the biggest sin you could commit resulting in yahwhes worst punishment ie turning his face against the perpetrator.

Yahwhe did not at any time revoke the law against the consumption of blood so pretending to drink the blood of his only begotten one of his sons must piss him off no end.

I just did not understand what the poster was getting it by referencing it.

I was raised Catholic and you point out one of the many things that puzzled me so. Reading the bible and going to church seems completely antithetical.

No graven images.
Catholic churches are practically museums of sculptures and artwork of holy figures.

Do not pray to anyone but God.
Ok, all say the Hail Mary now.

What you said.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Donny 4 million


This one? There are thousands more. Should we take them one at a time?

Names of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the Hebrew scriptures the Jewish name of God is considered sacred and, out of deep respect for the name, Jews do not say the name of God and do not erase ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God - Similar

I am not sure which one. They are varied and do not exactly specify. They are all using the bible and all but since my baptist friends claim that they have a different god than the Koreshians did, I cannot say for sure which god these kids have specifically adopted as their imaginary friend. Sorry.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Then how can you make a reasonable assessment of the OP?

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Then how can you make a reasonable assessment of the OP?

Because it matters not which specific god they are being brainwashed to preach about. The OP is about kids being brainwashed to preach fro the bible. I can understand and comment on and assess that just fine.

You did not even watch the video so how can you make a reasonable assessment of the OP?

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Then how can you make a reasonable assessment of the OP?

Because it matters not which specific god they are being brainwashed to preach about. The OP is about kids being brainwashed to preach fro the bible. I can understand and comment on and assess that just fine.

You did not even watch the video so how can you make a reasonable assessment of the OP?

Oh! glad you asked------

Only ignorance would wonder why Christians are here with the facts and working hard to debunk the crap others toss their way. Any bird brain knows America votes CHRISTIAN and GOD as an OVERWELLMING majority. Just name one group of AMERICANS that disagree with this.
Here is the post folks thought had something to do with the OP's getting banned.
I doubt this is the reason he did get banned.

Your title is Baby Bible Bashers Christian Child abuse.

I am sorry I cannot view the video. But I will call you on this thread anyway.
Can you show where the children bash the bible?
Can you prove CHILD ABUSE?
Have you reported it?
Prove or demonstrate how you exactly know it is more repugnant than kiddy porn.
Should we be reporting you because it seems you know all about it.
I think ATS would be proper to investigate that type individual and have them removed from the boards.

BTW I see kids in suits not diapers-these are not even babies.

So it is all your turn now to answer for him since he ducked out without answering.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Oh! glad you asked------

Only ignorance would wonder why Christians are here with the facts and working hard to debunk the crap others toss their way.

I have yet to see even one fact being presented at all. That is such an ignorant thing to say anyway. How can you bring facts to an argument when you have not even heard the argument?

Any bird brain knows America votes CHRISTIAN and GOD as an OVERWELLMING majority.

Not sure what country you live in. Porn is legal, abortion is legal, etc. I can go on and on with actual facts instead of just using the word facts. When are you going to start?

Just name one group of AMERICANS that disagree with this.

The godless liberals that voted all them demoncrats in. The 9 out of 10 people that believe evolution should be taught in schools. That is two. How am I doing?

So it is all your turn now to answer for him since he ducked out without answering.

Not sure how you figure anyone but the OP has to answer for the OP and he did not duck out, he was banned. I am just going to go ahead and put you on ignore now because you are not making much sense. I think that whole Outback Steakhouse thing broke you. Bye.