Felipe David WTC 1 basement blast victim - Where theres smoke, there isnt always fire.

Originally posted by thedman
Ever hear of dust explosion - couple pounds of grain dust/flour/sugar
suspended in air can destroy entire concrete mill

Same thing here - suspend aerosol mist of fuel in air - atomized fuel
from jet fuel falling down shafts. Fuel was travelling at 500 mph when
hit building so would not take much to atomize it

Again, you fail to deliver any corroborating evidence for your theory, but let's count the problems wrong with it anyway.

1) The elevators shafts were NOT continuous shafts from the impact points to the lobbies.

2) You would have about 1000 ft. of drywall shaft to go through either way, and drywall is going to burst open and decompress the pressure in open office space before an explosion is going to travel down the full 1000 feet without losing pressure and staying lit the whole time. That's Hollywood movie physics, like when a pound of TNT blows an entire building apart.

3) According to NYPD Lt. William Walsh, the elevators servicing the basement floors and lower floors of the tower were blown out of their hinges, NOT the express elevators that went to much higher floors.

4) The same basement explosion destroyed a 300-lb steel and concrete blast door according to eyewitness engineer Mike Pecoraro who worked in the basement of WTC1. This kind of overpessure would destroy the drywall shaft walls instantly and decompress outwards instead of down.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


I remember that PEPCON blast. Scared the bejeezus out of me. I don't recall that seeing that footage but I do remember seeing some guy film it on the freeway a mile or two away and he got blown away, literally.

As for mini-nukes on 9/11, I'm not buying it. DEW, possibly, especially as you watch the final seconds of the second collapse when the steel supports seem to turn to dust. If there is a DEW weapon that could pull it off, I'm not sure but the tech the government has is probably far beyond anything we have seen.

I see no one trying to answer my question from before:

had a nuke gone off in the basement, it would have been very obvious. However the descriptions of the fireballs traveling DOWN THE ELEVATOR SHAFTS should put this basement bomb junk to rest once and for all, cause even in the basements and lobby the fireball came DOWN the shafts, nothing came UP, it came down. Riddle me this folks, if a bomb goes off in the basement, below you, then how the hell do you get a fireball to travel down from the floors above you?

Here read through the accounts here, find me one account from the lobby or lower levels of a fireball coming UP from the basement:
Fireballs

Originally posted by GenRadek
However the descriptions of the fireballs traveling DOWN THE ELEVATOR SHAFTS should put this basement bomb junk to rest once and for all, cause even in the basements and lobby the fireball came DOWN the shafts, nothing came UP, it came down

Who said it came down and what floor were they on?

NYPD Lt. William Walsh contradicts what you say here, and so did many other witnesses. NO ONE saw a fireball blowing down any elevator shafts from 1000 feet up in the air, all the way down through the building. And worst of all, it makes absolutely no sense to cause so much destruction to the basement floors when the same fireball would have to go down drywall shafts without blowing them up too. I guess these overpressures are magical and can pick and choose where they want to exert pressure.

reply to post by bsbray11


This is one of the key points im trying to make, David doesnt mention ANYTHING about fire, or fireball, he says blast and then an incredible heat.

Its only Willy Rodriguez´s assumption that he was burnt by fire.

We have to find out the extent of Davids wounds.
Does anyone know if Felipe Davids medical records from that day are available.
Does anyone know where he is?
Can he be contacted?

reply to post by bsbray11


From right below the point of impact down to the lobby and below, the fireballs traveled DOWN the shafts. I have not heard, read, or seen anything about any fireballs going up. And many people reported hearing the elevators and explosions coming DOWN the shafts. Why is that? Since when does a bomb explode in the basement, but people hear and see fireballs travel down the shafts?

And also, "high power explosives" do not create massive fireballs that burn victims instead of blowing them apart. This is verified. Nukes have even less evidence for.

reply to post by andy1972


But why does the "blast" hit him AFTER the impact? After the fuel has traveled down the shafts? After the elevators hit the ground and exploded, being followed by fire balls? I would think fireballs would come up not down.

Originally posted by GenRadek
From right below the point of impact down to the lobby and below, the fireballs traveled DOWN the shafts.

Yeah, I understand that's what you said, but I'm asking you for sources now. Specific witness testimonies to back this up.

reply to post by GenRadek


So I asked you for specific sources and the thread dies instantly.

Well here's a reminder in case you just simply forgot to post them.

reply to post by bsbray11


I think this TRUE AMERICANS THREAD should be enough to end what arguments there are about in which direction went the fireballs.

I'll offer you all a thread and its posts which have a small audience, but should have great impact on the title of this thread :

First of all, one of the most important analysis of the famous WTC basement explosions by NK-44 at the Loose Change Forum :

The Basement Explosions. (and other floors)
z10.invisionfree.com...

It shows a tremendous effort from "NK-44" and "chopoz", and it will take you about 3 to 6 hours to read the 5 pages, and much more when you get really interested, and follow all the links and read them too, and so on for their links again.
I am reading this master piece and its links for several weeks already.
It is the best example of a laborious work which should trigger a new 9/11 investigation.

And it clearly refutes all the "jet-fuel in elevator shafts explosions" posters in this thread.

Btw, all machine rooms of all elevator shafts were shielded with top-off caps with only a small square foot smoke venting grid in them. And these caps were 3 feet above all the floor levels.
So, no chance in hell that jet fuel could have streamed inside one of the severed shafts high up at impact points, and then reach those shafts bottoms at f.ex. floor 42, and then stream out of the doors there and as they propose, stream then in the next lower serving floors shafts.

Utterly impossible, the top caps from the lower shafts stood 1 meter high, exactly to stop water or other fluids to penetrate in lower shafts.
(There were three levels of shafts, from top to bottom., never saw fluid jump up 1 meter)

And you all should read that link I give you, and you will find that the only two top to bottom maintenance elevator shafts had cars in them, equipped with mechanical safety breaks, which came in and functioned. They stopped.
And writing that an elevator car was exploding is plain ludicrous.

There were no elevator cars dropping down all the way to the Lobby level. The emergency safety brakes worked. They dropped no more than 10 to 12 floors. We have audio from NIST reports, from elevator mechanics, and elevator operators, a man and his wife, both operators in different ones, who explain this.

But, to keep it short for now, just read the link.
And thou shall know the truth.

PS: A shaft with an elevator car in it, will not function as a facilitator for a fuel-air explosive mixture of jet-fuel and air. Its like a piston in a cylinder. The piston will stop the ev. explosion power first, and then that power will build up and first destroy all the dry walls around the shafts, thus bleeding off in a millisecond all overpressure.

PS2: Even when it occurred, it would have blown out FIRST all the dry/wall plates surrounding all the elevator shafts.

Fricken impossible to blow an elevator car on its brakes, downwards without even blowing one dry wall out, higher up, first.

Most of you have very poor logical argumentation skill. You should hone it with practicing a better and deeper research trajectory.

PS3: If you look up the specifications of a thermobaric explosion, you will find that exactly the burn marks from this man are one of those specs.
And

A diagram of a WTC Tower elevator trajectory plus levels where they started and ended.



Lo and behold, did a search and found an excellent thread from True American, and we share the same opinion, that Loose Change forum thread is a masterpiece :

Title: A Thread That Proves The "Fireballs Down the Elevators" Impossible?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 16/4/10 by LaBTop]