Obamacare is a bailout for insurance companies.

It is not a cut in deficits, is like Stormdancer said a bailout.

It all started with the finacial crisis, banks and too big to fail got a bailout but insurance companies didn't, like health care.

How did this fat rats that has been posting very good profits got the idea that they needed a bailout?

Well is all about the baby boomer's, Medicare and Medicaid and the raising cost of health care.

When this fat rats did the projections for the next 10 years they discovered that their profits were going to diminish within those 10 years.

Baby boomer's that supported their racketeering are getting older and retiring, like Kosmo pointed out in another thread in America is not Cures, but treatments that last a life time and record profits, but for big pharma not for the health care insurance that are to pay for that life time care and the two entitlement govenremnt programs.

In capitalism is all about money, but when is not money to be made and profits are to get a hit something has to be done to preserve the wealth of a capitalistic system and their corporate body.

Health care reform will diminish the quality of care like big companies are doing to preserve profits, after all the health care reform is after all for private insurances.

To fight the exodus of healthy young people that due to employment and economic woes will no go for private insurance and insurance companies left with older and sicker Americans on life time care they are to have the government intervention on making the healthy and younger Americans pay for the needs of those that are more expensive to maintain.

Just like SS paying for the older Americans while the youngers pay into it.

But what happen when things will not go as planned? or insurance companies will not be able to make their profits? there will come the government to bail them out with tax payer like they did the banking system.

Because the health care reform will render the big private insurance company for ever more, too big too fail



[edit on 19-3-2010 by marg6043]

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

1. i doubt that t his is all an attempt to lower the national debt, i mean seriously, who in dc really cares about that? just my opinion based on an aged old systems policies that never change

2. 95% of people will be fine? what a bout the other 5%. 5 is a small number, but not small if you realize how many people that actually is

i beleive it was thomas jefferson who said

democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner

what a joke this all is

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

We're done! Stay in fantasyland. I have to go make a living so I can pay my taxes so that people like you can enjoy the fruits of MY labor! We''ll revisit this in a few years - once you've been proven to be DEVASTATINGLY inncorrect in your assumptions - as ALL liberals have been throughout the whole of human history!

By the way, I DID read the CBO report. AND... I see how you are selectively parsing it. I'm just wondering... what are you lazy liberals gona do when you run out of other people's money??? It will happen MUCH SOONER than later.

Nice trolling.
I probably pay more than you in taxes being a small business owner. But hey, you can make assumptions all you want. I am happy that I can now hire up to 30 people without having to spring for health insurance should I grow rapidly.
I linked the CBO report.
I will ignore the rest of your flame comments...but thank you for proving that you personally cannot hold an arguement without resorting to name calling and general partisan anger...it sort of proves one of my points.

reply to post by SaturnFX



The plan will most likley not reduce the deficit. And it only can by some means of exstraction which is part of the hidden reality of this bill. Its also going to keep wages down, insurance prices will rise, they WILL at some point have to cut back on care unless your in the "system".

And like it is now, certain folks will be able to go down and get whatever they need and Joe/Jane paying for it will have their options the more limited while paying more at the same time.

This isnt about the # deficit. Its about deluding the average guy that he will be better for it.

They are doing Voodoo Accounting again.

It is virtually impossible that this bill will reduce the deficit because it will cost at least 3 times more than they say it will cost.

Premiums will, of necessity, go up because doctors and all other service providers will be getting such a low reimbursement from medicare and medicaid that they will have to double their costs to the rest of us.

Nor will there be the savings that Obama and Pelosi claim there will be. I f they could have done something about the fraud, then why haven't they already started?

Add to that the outrageous administrative costs of starting up over a hundred new federal agencies that will definitely intrude on all our lives, and it will cost far more than the phony estimates.

Nothing the federal government or even local ones, ever does actually comes in at or below cost. It always costs more and there are always sweet deals, waste, and fraud.

The things that might actually have helped people such as insuring the uninsured and uninsurable could have been done in a one page bill.

It doesn't even include the medical malpractice tort reform which can really be addressed in two words....loser pays. Even the dumbest Congressman understands loser pays. That would greatly reduce premiums for the service providers and their costs of just opening up an office.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


in the text of your OP. it spells out pretty clearly that President Øbama & his cohorts, feel this byzantine creation of Øbamacare,
~ Will instantly make the economy re-inflate ~
because the people will need to crawl out from under the forced burden of debt they are ordered to have (health insurance).

serfdom at its finest

Originally posted by indigothefish
2. 95% of people will be fine? what a bout the other 5%. 5 is a small number, but not small if you realize how many people that actually is

And that is the far left's arguement...that it doesn't cover everyone.

To cover everyone, it truely would have to be a left's bill verses a fairly centerist overhaul. There are still issues with pre-existing conditions, there are still high costs, there are still plenty of profits for insurance companys, etc...
a public option would reduce the cost/profit of private insurance agencys, but that was torn out of the bill (unsure why actually...most agreed with it, but I think there was some constitutional issues with that..might have to do that one state by state). and mandating everyone to get health insurance would bring the numbers up to 99%, but nobody wants to be forced to do anything.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

We're done! Stay in fantasyland. I have to go make a living so I can pay my taxes so that people like you can enjoy the fruits of MY labor! We''ll revisit this in a few years - once you've been proven to be DEVASTATINGLY inncorrect in your assumptions - as ALL liberals have been throughout the whole of human history!

Nice trolling.
I probably pay more than you in taxes being a small business owner. But hey, you can make assumptions all you want. I am happy that I can now hire up to 30 people without having to spring for health insurance should I grow rapidly.

Yea thats call a subsidy. Why should you be subsidized? Are you going to lower your prices for me then?

Your like the guys that hire non citizen labor that pay no taxes you or them. Yet they have accsess to medical care on my dime.

Why isnt there an american eagle icon on this deal.

reply to post by Logarock


I only have 2 employees. Both get paid a standard market wage. I am certainly not going to start paying for more than what is needed. Saving dimes = dollars over time...thats simply business. Now, if there was a way to provide health care for free or by stupidly cheap standards, then I would join in..there are some measures about entrapenuer and small businesses joining up to get better rates, but for now, I am not looking into that.
Hell, I dont even have health insurance...too expensive, I simply cannot afford it for now. Once the business is turning a profit then I can investigate in on that, but until then, health insurance would simply collapse my business...so, its fend for yourself in that area..

reply to post by SaturnFX


Without even knowing you has expressed exactly what is going to happen if health care reform pass.

In America a capitalistic system means "profits" while you will suffer with a mandatory health care reform, so expect the quality of care diminish for the sake of profit making by the big insurance companies.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by indigothefish
2. 95% of people will be fine? what a bout the other 5%. 5 is a small number, but not small if you realize how many people that actually is

a public option would reduce the cost/profit of private insurance agencys..

Yea right. That was the same idea with the child care thing with single mothers. But it ended up driving child care prices to the roof. Why? Becouse the governement was paying more for child care than the average guy could afford.

I was even told this by a friend that runs a good sized day care. I couldnt afford the prices. She said it was becouse the govenment paid so much for the ADC moms that the day care centers couldnt aford doing bussness with Joe and Jane working married stiff. PLUS!!!!! They were not allowed to give working familes a break per gov regs! They Joe and Jane HAD to be charged at least what the governmet was paying per child. So hows that for your people not liking to be told what to do?

reply to post by SaturnFX



Thats why I say the cost of all this will still fall on the backs of the wage earner...meanwhile it is his dupe # that they are selling it to. As StormDancer has poited out the 45k to 75k wage earners.

Not only will we pay for our own as we watch prices go up, but we will be paying the way of so many others as we do now.


[edit on 19-3-2010 by Logarock]

This is interesting,

Earlier today this was posted and is still available at another forum,

Democrats are planning to introduce legislation later this spring that would permanently repeal annual Medicare cuts to doctors, but are warning lawmakers not to talk about it for fear that it will complicate their push to pass comprehensive health reform. The plans undercut the party's message that reform lowers the deficit, according to a memo obtained by POLITICO.

Democrats removed the so-called doc fix from the reform legislation last year because its $371-billion price tag would have made it impossible for Democrats to claim that their bill reduces the deficit. Republicans have argued for months that by stripping the doc fix from the bill, Democrats were playing a shell game.

Most health staff are already aware that our health proposal does not contain a 'doc fix.' The inclusion of a full SGR repeal would undermine reform budget neutrality. So again, do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered, the memo, sent Thursday to Democratic staff, said

Now it has been taken down,

UPDATE: Democrats challenge authenticity of ‘doc fix’ memo

An earlier post in this spot detailed what was purported by Republicans to be an internal Democratic memo regarding the upcoming health reform vote Sunday. Democratic leadership has challenged the authenticity of the memo. POLITICO has removed the memo and the details about it until we can absolutely verify the document’s origin.

Wonder what the truth is?

www.politico.com...

Medicare Doctors Feeling Pressured To Support Overhaul

www.investors.com...

Politico's 'Doc Fix' Memo: Fake, But Accurate?

www.theatlantic.com...

Democratic memo instructs staffers to mislead voters and media on “doctor fix”; Update: It’s a hoax, say Dems

hotair.com...

Update (Ed): When Politico went live with this article, I had confirmed with two people I know on the Hill that they had seen this being passed around. Did it come from Democrats, or from Republicans? I can’t answer that, but I did confirm with two sources that it exists.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Full memo posted here.

reply to post by SaturnFX

According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

You can't be serious.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Hell, I dont even have health insurance...too expensive, I simply cannot afford it for now. Once the business is turning a profit then I can investigate in on that, but until then, health insurance would simply collapse my business...so, its fend for yourself in that area..

I don't understand?

Health Care Bill is not a Reform as we are told. It is truly a bill. A bill of sale to the folks we allegedly owe money to.

Health Care Reform is alot like the Codex Alimentarius.

Thats why I think it is so urgent. It was mandated for 12.31.2009. They haven't gotten that far yet.

Codex alimentarius has been thwarted thus far, But it has now been named Health Care Bill.

You should know this already if you're on this site.

reply to post by dfens


No, I don't know what that is.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


The codex alimentarius? If you are interested< I can provide the link.