Obamacare is a bailout for insurance companies.

Obamacare is a bailout for insurance companies.



Ted Rall: Obamacare just a bailout for insurance companies
www.sj-r.com...

Obama’s proposed solution to our health-care non-system, which is a national disgrace, will pour billions of dollars into the pockets of the very same people who caused the problem in the first place: insurance companies.


Under the Obama/Senate plan, the poor — individuals who currently earn under $14,500 — would be required to go on Medicaid. Unless they don’t qualify for whatever reason, in which case they would have to pay at least 2 percent of their income to private insurers or get dinged $750 a year.

The working poor, meanwhile, would get charged a percent of their income on a sliding scale. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, federal subsidies for poor workers would be too low. People who earn between $14,500 and $43,000 a year would pay between 4 and 12 percent of their annual income to private insurers. (That’s right: Someone who makes $43,000 would have to shell out $430 a month. If they live in a high-tax place like New York, that would leave them about $2,000 a month to live on after taxes.) And let’s not forget about deductibles.

As anyone who has ever dealt with private insurance knows, deductibles are the odious practice of official non-coverage — insurance doesn’t start paying (if they don’t deny your claim for some reason) until you’ve already spent a certain amount that year.

I don’t know why conservatives aren’t talking about deductibles. They are one of the biggest secrets of Obamacare — and one of the most damning. Like the subsidies, the “actuarial value of coverage” — the percentage of medical bills your policy would pay every year — would slide on a scale. The more you earn, the more you pay and the less you get.

Under the Senate bill, for example, a family of three earning less than $27,000 — we’re talking poor people here — would be fairly well covered. ObamaCare would cover 97 percent of their bills. But a family of three earning between $45,000 and $73,000 would only have 70 percent coverage. In other words, they’d have to pay a third of their medical bills out of pocket.

There would also be co-pays: $20 per doctor’s visit, $250 if you had to go to the hospital, and lab tests and X-rays would come completely out of your wallet.

I don't know why this guy took the opportunity to blame the conservatives, maybe he should find a solution.

[edit on 083131p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

I have been saying it for the past year.
It is trying to create a new bubble to fix the economy as alot of the other bubbles created have burst.

When you think of how many years healthcare reform has been talked about and look at the fact that once we had the crash of Sept 30 08 and NOW they want to do something about healthcare,does the timing of it all not peak your suspician??

They could have reformed healthcare years ago if they REALLY wanted to.
The fact the economy is in the crapper and the fact that now they are actually serious about it tells me something smells funny.

I don't think it is really a bailout so much as i think it is a new bubble they need to create to help the economy stay afloat.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Surprise Me!!!
We have the same crap going on here in Australia, anyone notice any parallels??

The excuse that we are given is that the State Government has wasted all money in the coffers; so Kevin Rudd (Federal impostuer in shining armor ),has stepped in to take the GST from the states to pay for the short fall in Health.

It makes me sick; the lie that is called democracy.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
It makes me sick; the lie that is called democracy.

Democracy? Neither the AU nor the US is a Democracy.

sorry to nitpick here, but if either country was a democracy, corporate insterests would have one hell of a time putting their agenda forward.

America is a constitutional republic, and Australia is a federal constitutional monarchy under a parliamentary democracy(parliamentary democracy is a fancy way of saying a selective republic). Both versions are easily purchased, corruptable, and fairly inefficient.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

Come on Saturn!!! You are being completely intellectually disingenuous!!! Healthcare could be fixed in a 4 page bill. Number 1 - tort reform. Number 2 - Allow interstate policy sales based on universal standards. Number 3 - Place controls on the "For profit" entities, just as they have done with other industries. Number 4 - development of state-wide exchanges. That's it - that is all that would've needed to be done.

Instead, the IRS get's new powers, healthcare is rationed, taxes SOAR, penalties, fines and fees are evident. Heck, Walgreens in WA just announced that they can no longer afford to accept new Medicare patients as they are LOSING money! You people who support this are living in fantasy land!

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I have known this since the beginning, actually when the "mandate" was introduced in the bill, people do not realized or have no idea that the word mandate and fees and fines were written into the bill by the insurance companies.

Why? because the health care reform is their baby, they planned, they will write it and they will execute it with the help of the government that obviously by now we know is ruled by them.

When a president takes the white house they are to leave a legacy, Obama legacy is the health care Reform.

If we are to look at how pass administration bed sleeping with corporate America works people should be able to figure out who president will be sleeping with during its time in the white house.

I wish people will be more attentive to what goes on in politics in this nation.



[edit on 19-3-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043

I wish people will be more attentive to what goes on in politics in this nation.

Many more people are getting involved, but maybe it is to late.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

How can a bill that will cost the tax payers almost a trillion dollars cut the deficit?

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

Come on Saturn!!! You are being completely intellectually disingenuous!!!

Healthcare could be fixed in a 4 page bill. Number 1 - tort reform. Number 2 - Allow interstate policy sales based on universal standards. Number 3 - Place controls on the "For profit" entities, just as they have done with other industries. Number 4 - development of state-wide exchanges. That's it - that is all that would've needed to be done.

Instead, the IRS get's new powers, healthcare is rationed, taxes SOAR, penalties, fines and fees are evident. Heck, Walgreens in WA just announced that they can no longer afford to accept new Medicare patients as they are LOSING money! You people who support this are living in fantasy land!

I really dont want to start this nonsense where you talk the rights talking points with half truths, I respond with the lefts talking points with half truths, we both make points, we both refuse to see the others points, then some idiots elect us both into congress so we can annoy people nationally.

My post stands. CBO said the numbers, its a fiscally conservative bill, case closed. I like fiscally conservative things that makes things work better...so should you..but you dont have to of course.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by SaturnFX
According to the CBO, this bill will cut the debt by 138 billion in 10 years, and the following 10, it will cut the debt by over a trillion. 95% of people covered under the bill, and nothing mandated (else it would have been 99%, but people dont like being told what to do.

I see this as a positive fiscally conservative fix to health care...most experts do..the only ones really complaining now are far left and far right..one demanding more socialism aspects be installed, the other demanding more principled survival of the fittest philosophy.

Never listen to the fringe of either party.

How can a bill that will cost the tax payers almost a trillion dollars cut the deficit?

How many reference sites would you like to start reading?

The money is the part used to institute the changes that will bring about the federal savings. It will cost X amount, but bring in Y amount...Y-X = z

Pretty basic math really a penny saved is a penny earned. spend 99 pennys on a penny a day saver and on day 100, you start turning a profit. Surely you know someone whom owns a business...they dont start off profitable..you need to invest a ton of money initially and then work your way back out of the red.

BS! Saturn, if you "Like[d] truly conservative things" then you would be spending your time campaigning for a SMALLER federal government. Sorry, I see right through your ruse!

Oh, and to add... Did you happen to notice the press release from the IRS that stated that they would need almost 100,000 more employees and a budget increase of $10 BILLION dollars a year just to "police" this bill???

Scope creep already - less than 24 hours later. By my estimates, that is a $100 BILLION dollar cost increase in the first 10 years for only 6 years of benefits!

Hmmm... I wonder what other hidden costs will come to light over the next year???

reply to post by SaturnFX


That didn't help me, but I will see what I can find.
Thanks though

I really would like to know how this is possible, no one I know believes it, three forths of Americans don't believe it,

More Than 16,000 New IRS Workers Will Be Needed

The IRS says that the new health care plan will mean additional taxes and penalties. This will require 16,000 new IRS employees in the department. They will include workers to enforce the regulations and collect fees as well as additional agents and auditors. The IRS will be given the authority, according to the Republicans report, to fine a person up to $2500, or two per cent of their income, whichever is great, if the person cannot prove they have purchased a minimum essential health care coverage.
Powers The IRS Will Have With The New Health Care Reform

According to the newly released document, prepared by the Republicans, they report the IRS can confiscate a tax refund. Additionally, they suggest that the number of audits conducted each year will increase. During this decade they say the IRS will need additional funding of $10 billion just to administer the new health care program. Further, they contend the IRS might need to hire up to 16,500 additional employees in order to collect, what they anticipate will be, billions of dollars in new taxes from Americans.

The IRS Will Also Have Other Responsibilities

The report estimates that about half of the new mandated taxes will be paid by Americans who earn less than 300 per cent of poverty. This amounts to $66,150 for a family of four. The report concludes that the Democrats refuse to impose these sames taxes and penalties on illegal immigrants.

Speaking of IRS, do people really want this?

www.americasnewsonline.com...

Originally posted by kozmo
BS! Saturn, if you "Like[d] truly conservative things" then you would be spending your time campaigning for a SMALLER federal government. Sorry, I see right through your ruse!

Oh, and to add... Did you happen to notice the press release from the IRS that stated that they would need almost 100,000 more employees and a budget increase of $10 BILLION dollars a year just to "police" this bill???

Scope creep already - less than 24 hours later. By my estimates, that is a $100 BILLION dollar cost increase in the first 10 years for only 6 years of benefits!

Hmmm... I wonder what other hidden costs will come to light over the next year???

Did you see the CBO report?

Fiscal conservatism is not about government size...the so called "real fiscal conservatives" have proven time and time again that when they call the shots, we get a massive increase in government spending and programs...typically in the name of defense.
Since Reagen, we have seen only expanding government and massive debt in actions...the only exception to this rule was Bill Clinton.
Thats the flat out facts.

You can argue the talking points all you want, but facts remain pretty clear. the far right neocons are for pro debt, pro expansion. This health care bill will in fact reduce the debt...the biggest debt reduction measure since Bill Clinton.

Researchable by independent firms, and the only arguement against it are by neocons.

if it takes 10k people to save 138 billion over 10 years, or 1 trillion over 20, then great...sounds like a deal. more employment and savings, whoot.

I want as Obama mentioned in his campaign...I want smarter government...responsible government. Size means jack...if I truely wanted a tiny government, I would move to Nigeria or the Congo.

The hidden cost statement is a reflex reaction from the Bush administration when they truely were hiding the costs of war, of their medicare disaster, etc.

and finally as far as the 6 year thing...right, these plans will be instituted over time and will really start kicking in in about 4 years. This has been another talking point from the right...omg, even if it works, it will be 4 years from now...so lets not do it, because 4 years is too far ahead and will never come.

get over it. Time the country starts looking at more than 6 month intervals...do we want cake and ice cream today or the longevity of our country as a whole?

There is a good arguement that democracy/republics are not able to be stable for long because the people in general do not consider the future...only what is happening at the very moment..which makes politicians cater to them

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Surprise Me!!!
We have the same crap going on here in Australia, anyone notice any parallels??

The vast amount of americans were and are unaware that England was having the same kind of real estate banking meltdown as the US was. Loaning large cash, going belly up, then bail out.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
three forths of Americans don't believe it,

3/4ths of the people in the US have a IQ of under 120 and believe in a magical sky ghost watching their every move and listening to their thoughts for naughty words.

I think you are wrong, we have been doing our homework,

I have seen how ill-informed people on both sides are.

newzeal.blogspot.com...

reply to post by SaturnFX


We're done! Stay in fantasyland. I have to go make a living so I can pay my taxes so that people like you can enjoy the fruits of MY labor! We''ll revisit this in a few years - once you've been proven to be DEVASTATINGLY inncorrect in your assumptions - as ALL liberals have been throughout the whole of human history!

By the way, I DID read the CBO report. AND... I see how you are selectively parsing it. I'm just wondering... what are you lazy liberals gona do when you run out of other people's money??? It will happen MUCH SOONER than later.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Why are you reading blogs? people lie and distort facts for political reasons.

read the source yourself...here:
CBO report in a PDF