Vatican investigates Bosnia 'apparition' of Virgin Mary

Vatican investigates Bosnia 'apparition' of Virgin Mary

news.bbc.co.uk

The Vatican has announced a commission to investigate claims that the Virgin Mary appears on a daily basis in a town in Bosnia-Hercegovina.
...
For almost 30 years, the Virgin Mary has been said to appear daily in Medjugorje, dressed sometimes in a grey dress and veil and sometimes in gold, crowned with stars and floating on a cloud.

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Earth will enter in the fourth dimension in 2013/virgin mary message.

[edit on 3/18/2010 by Hadrian]

[edit on 3/18/2010 by Hadrian]

I dunno, I just think if I was somebody at the Vatican and there were reports of one of the big kahunas appearing regularly ... and for sixteen years ... I might would suggest someone look into it. I mean this is the Catholic Church ... they're kinda into Mary, right?

Guess a distraction might be good for now, though.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Hadrian

Guess a distraction might be good for now, though.

Indeed, how to keep the minds of the flock off the fact that their lives have been ruled by a pedophile ring?
Why, give them a miracle of course just to remind them who knows best, keep the eye off the ball and the cash coming in.

she comes everyday for 30 years and they're only just starting to investigate it? Sounds pretty suspicious to me...

My big question with all of this is why does the virgin mary appear in places like this and not just everywhere. What kind of elitist message is she giving that NOONE and i mean NOONE in the US is able to see or hear? Why do i have to go to fatima or bosnia or wherever she appears over in europe. I mean seriously come on. Shes done the whole eurpoean tour thing now its time to bring the show to the states. Mary i eagerly await your tour.

It's ironic that miracles seem to work most of their 'magic' in geographical areas where education is dire.

IRM

[edit on 18/3/10 by InfaRedMan]

Tut Tut Vatican...again.

Does it not say something in the bible about worshipping anything other than God?

And yet they all worship Jesus's mother for some reason.

And have to rely on apparitions/misunderstood events to keep people interested.

reply to post by Hadrian


Why is every appreciation of a female called "the Virgin Mary?" Again with the misuse of the words. This could be the Goddess manifesting herself again for the people. I too have seen this Feminine Divine Spiritual Presence for myself, within a ritual circle. I have never in my life felt so much love from any being. I was surrounded by it, and it washed through me like a cleansing wave of energy. I haven't been the same since. When I saw Her, I didn't automatically think of a Biblical thing. I guess some will do this, though. Too much Bible and not enough real learning. This lack of knowledge is going to trap may people here in this dimension, time to wake up!

reply to post by Hadrian


The Catholic Church has never approved of these apparitions and the local bishop has condemned them.

Medjugorje: Warned Against by the Hierarchy

It is the duty of the local bishop of the diocese in which supposed supernatural events take place to study and confirm or deny the legitimacy of the claims being made. The bishop in the diocese to which Medjugorje belongs, Msgr. Zanic of Mostar, remitted this duty by forming a diocesan commission to do an impartial inquiry into the events that had been taking place since 1981. After a few years of thorough and intense investigative study, which the Church always exercises to determine an unmistakable decision in these matters, the Bishop issued a statement in 1986 giving the results of the study. In the statement, Msgr. Zanic proclaimed that these apparitions are not made by the most Holy Virgin Mary and he forbade the pilgrimages set up from the beginning without ecclesiastical approval by the pastor of Mostar.

In a resulting interview given by Fr. Deleclos of the Libre Belgique, Msgr. Zanic was asked: "Are you, as a matter of principle, against apparitions?" The Bishop replied: "Quite the contrary! I myself have been eight times to Lourdes and I have organized pilgrimages. I have done much for the devotion to the Most Holy Virgin. I was even in Banneux, in Beauraign (Belgium), and Syracuse (Italy), three places where the apparitions of Mary had been stated as authentic."

"However, you are not convinced of this in Medjugorje?" Reply: "I should really be glad to have a Lourdes in my diocese. It would be something grandiose. But I cannot before God, before my conscience and before the Church proclaim these apparitions are authentic and supernatural. I am certainly a sinner and unworthy to be a bishop, yet I believe it would be the worst of all the sins of my life to let this falseness pass for truth, knowing that it is a lie." Despite these words of the Bishop, which the faithful should accept as a decision from God, people continued to flock to Medjugorje and the priest did not desist from organizing pilgrimages as ordered.

Read more: Medjugorje: Not Approved by the Church

An ex Vatican exorcist has stated that he believes Medjugorje is the work of the Devil.

Medjugorje "work of the devil": Ex Vatican exorcist

Former Vatican exorcist Bishop Andrea Gemma has denounced alleged visions of Our Lady in the Bosnian town of Medjugorje as the "work of the devil" and a "diabolical deceit".

The UK Daily Mail reports that the Vatican has rejected claims made by the six Bosnian 'seers' that they have seen the Virgin Mary more than 40,000 times over the past 27 years

Bishop Andrea Gemma, 77, once the Vatican's top exorcist, told a magazine in Italy: "In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, lodging houses, sale of trinkets.
"This whole sham is the work of the Devil. It is a scandal."

He predicted that the Vatican would soon crack down on the group.

Read more: CathNews

The Vatican may be looking into it so that they can definitively condemn it and attempt to put an end to Medjugorje pilgrimages once and for all.

reply to post by autowrench


Marian apparitions are labeled as such because she identifies herself, for example in Fatima, Guadalupe, and Lordes. She will typically say her name is Mary, Our Lady of __________, it is believed that you should always ask a spirit to identify itself.

So long as the apparitions do not go against the doctrine of the Bible/Church a person is free to believe/listen/follow whatever apparitions they desire. I tend to be more traditionalist in my Catholicism and personally I believe Medjugorge to be false, but that's me, I'm certain the pilgrims that visit would disagree. Typically the messages are all the same, pray.

The only thing I found that points out how it is false is from Most Holy Family Monestery
Their main issues with the apparitions are:
"The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God and that people have enforced
unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect
other religions as well."1 – "Seer" Ivanka Ivankovic
"The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are
accepted by her Son."2 – "Seer" Ivanka Ivankovic
Question: "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?" Answer: "No. The
Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son."3 – "Seer" Vicka Ivankovic


Others may not see this as a problem, in fact it sounds great, in a all religions are wonderful kind of way. That however goes against the stance of the Church, or the Church pre Vatican II anyway. I suppose the biggest issue here is that one need not accept Jesus Christ and their Lord and Savior for salvation, which no matter no type of Christian you are is a big no no, and apostasy.

not to call bs on this apparition

but just so the wannabe theologians know, the catholic church doesnt worship mary.

I suggest if anyone has questions on the dogmas of the church they ask a church official a priest a monk, their not hard to find. its an organized religion so they have a set of beliefs unlike the splinter groups who dont.

when it comes to religion best to ask the leaders in it what the ideologies are and not some random person on the internet.

Originally posted by Frakkerface
she comes everyday for 30 years and they're only just starting to investigate it? Sounds pretty suspicious to me...

The last 30 years or so were spent milking the Mother Theresa thing to death. They now need a new "miracle" to certify for publicity.

When it comes to Marian apparitions, there are some basic points of fact that deserve enumeration:

1) the Roman Catholic Church does not investigate an apparition until it has come to a close.

2) Medjugorje apparitions have been unusual in that they are ongoing, with a large number of seers, and spawning other places of apparition; also the original seers communicate with the Apparition of the Mother of God wherever they are throughout the world.

3) The two most recently approved apparitions are those of "the Mother of the Word" in Kibeho, Rwanda which warned the seers explicitly of the attempted genocide to come; and, years earlier the Lady of All Nations seen by Sr. Agnes Sasagawa in Akita, Japan. (In the interest of disclosure, I knew Sr. Agnes and strongly believe she was a living saint of the highest order.)

4) The majority of Vatican bureaucrats hate Marian apparitions because they don't like the Mother of God telling them what to do and they hate anything that smacks of popular piety. For an apparition to be approved in the environment of the 20th century Church, such an apparition had to be beyond extraordinary.

5) The situation in Medjugorje is complicated by an ongoing war between the Franciscan order and the diocesan bishops.

6) At Kibeho in Rwanda, the Blessed Mother said that she does not look at religion but rather sees all people as her children.

Sounds more like a Residual Haunting than anything conjured up from the Bible. However given the fact there a bit "nuts" over in Bosnia, I guess any Ghosts involving Females and Playbacks could be easily confused for something else.

I've been hearing all of these "Mary" apparitions, and this is not compatible with what the Bible says. The Bible clearly states that the rosary, "Mother of God" and many other things associated with these Marian apparitions are pagan. But what makes things get really complicated is an alternate view of these events that I found.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

While lots of her claims are just speculation, skip to the "Messiah Projects" section and see all of the connections that are made there. I honestly have no idea what to think at the moment, because all of this has left me rather confused. I need some people with a lot of knowledge of religion to go through this and help me out with it, and tell me if her claims stand up. I know some of them don't, because it causes some contradictions, but others seem pretty right. There also might be a problem with the way she crosses religions, but that is where I need the help of some well researched religious people. These apparitions certainly don't fit our Biblical, or any other Abrahamic faith's views. I haven't heard much of this before, and I seriously need some people to spread this around and debate it, because I have no idea what to believe now, and I can't seem to find anyone to discuss this with. I'm pretty sure her claims trying to connect Islam are incompatible though, judging by direct quotations from Muhammad, but the rest is still worth looking at. I also would like to contact the creator of this site, but apparently this is archived from a site back in the 90s, and the email address given is inactive.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by NamelessMonster]

reply to post by NamelessMonster


I have lost the password to my other account, so I have to say it with this one.

Please ignore that link I was posting around about the "DOMA collective". What it claims is absolute lies and bunk.

Most everything it claimed has been debunked. I can't post a link to it here because this is a new account, but please search this forum for "I need some help from some well researched Christian users" and then "I need help from Muslim users" to see some threads that explain the flaws.

Don't waste your time on the crazy site, it tricked me for a while. I just now took the time to see that what it was all bunk, and really goofy obvious bunk at that.

I think most people here could already tell, but this is in case anyone starts to take it seriously. It is hilariously wrong.

I scattered a bunch of links through this thread, but I hope that people didn't beleive the garbage or at least read this. It is a HUGE waste of time because it takes a while to read, and it is all lies.

EDIT: Looks like I can post links

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These are only some of the many flaws and lies there. Don't beleive it.

Accidental double post.

Holy Mary, Jesus and Joseph..!!!

For (probably) the first time in history the catholic church will be investigating to condem and disprove, and no to sensationalise and make profits from, an apparition of the virgen Mary.
I cant believe they're missing out on the chance to make a few more bucks so near to xmas.

The church lives from ruvbbish like this.....what's happening?

The good catholics here in Spain (and thats like 90% of the population folks) would give half a months wages to see this.
But then the super believers would pay even to see an apparition of the virgen Marys dog.