wars started by atheism or humanism?

everyone keeps on talking about wars started by religion... you know the usual blah blah blah.


i want to ask this...


is there any wars started by atheism or atheist ideals or humanism or humanist ideals?

if so list them and your reason why?

atheism isnt really a belief system. its just a lack of belief compared to a more popular concept. i dont think atheists organize themselves into organizations well enough to take any kind of stand on any beliefs they might by chance have in common. plus atheism doesnt have a set code of morality because they arent really organized like a religion, the only thing an atheist org would have in common is their lack of belief in a god. that leaves out any moral codes or culture/tradition to try to defend. what would they fight for? in my opinion its kind of hard to compare the two 'beliefs'
-jesse

Originally posted by newparadigm
atheism isnt really a belief system. its just a lack of belief compared to a more popular concept. i dont think atheists organize themselves into organizations well enough to take any kind of stand on any beliefs they might by chance have in common. plus atheism doesnt have a set code of morality because they arent really organized like a religion, the only thing an atheist org would have in common is their lack of belief in a god. that leaves out any moral codes or culture/tradition to try to defend. what would they fight for? in my opinion its kind of hard to compare the two 'beliefs'
-jesse

okay.

www.atheistalliance.org...

www.atheists.org...

atheist manifesto...
www.2think.org...
www.telemark.net...


it is an organization.

think about the core beliefs of atheism and how that would tranlsate to destruction or war.... if you will.


if not atheism... then try humanism.

thats more organized it seems.




[Edited on 3-3-2003 by krossfyter]

i had no idea they were so organized
i guess two groups will always be fighting unless somehow we all think the same way. and can express it so we all understand the same way. until then we have conflict
=/
thx for the info.

Wars are started by politics ... power and territory. Religion is / was the tool used to incite the masses to fight for the political end. "Do it for God and country". Instead of "Do it for me beaucse I want more land / money / kingdoms etc..."

It is rare for religion per sec to be the cause of war. Even with militant islam, its power over the masses and the power of Islam as a political force.

(Insert a bit of Islam bashing here )

The crusades were the same, politics and princes trying to make their fortunes.

Even though politics has been the true cause for any war, religion has been used as an *excuse* more often than any other reason for war.

Stalin did a pretty good job inflicting oppression, death and destruction and most of it towards his own people. A lover of God he wasn't.
In a world where people can kill each other over rival soccer teams, gang colours or ethnic background anyone who thinks that taking religion out of the picture will cure all ills is seriously fluffy!

Originally posted by Netchicken
Wars are started by politics ... power and territory. Religion is / was the tool used to incite the masses to fight for the political end. "Do it for God and country". Instead of "Do it for me beaucse I want more land / money / kingdoms etc..."

It is rare for religion per sec to be the cause of war. Even with militant islam, its power over the masses and the power of Islam as a political force.

(Insert a bit of Islam bashing here

)

The crusades were the same, politics and princes trying to make their fortunes.

yes. but can you dig deeper then politics for a causation?

Krossflyter - what is deeper than that? The sinful posessive eart of all man I supose.....

Roadghost - great post, great ideas I had never thought of it like that....

Netchicken,

I manage one good observation per year then spend the rest of the day with a migraine!

Humanism is a philosophy, not a formal religion. Humanism goes back to the ancient Greek philosophers and was introduced to Western Europe during the Renaissance.

Modern Humanism combines a deep concern for the individual (the Epicureans) and the State (Bentham), stating that we must make the best of our lives, be interested in everything - live life to the full. George Bernard Shaw wrote "This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognised by yourself as a mighty one; the being thoroughly worn out before you are thrown on the scrapheap; the being a force of
Nature instead of a feverish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy"... Get off of your couch, switch off the T.V., and start living your life...

Modern humanists have mostly discarded religion, on the grounds that acceptance of the existence of God requires an act of faith - which is seen as a betrayal of reason. Also religion is seen as no longer necessary - a hindrance rather than a help to social reform. man is the centre of his universe, not god...

Below are some of Humanisms main tenants:

1. Humanism is one of those philosophies for people who think for themselves. There is no area of thought that a Humanist is afraid to challenge and explore.

2. Humanism is a philosophy focused upon human means for comprehending reality. Humanists make no claims to possess or have access to supposed transcendent knowledge.

3. Humanism is a philosophy of reason and science in the pursuit of knowledge. Therefore, when it comes to the question of the most valid means for acquiring knowledge of the world; Humanists reject arbitrary faith, authority, revelation, and altered states of consciousness.

4. Humanism is a philosophy of imagination. Humanists recognize that intuitive feelings, hunches, speculation, flashes of inspiration, emotion, altered states of consciousness, and even religious experience, while not valid means to acquire knowledge, remain useful sources of ideas that can lead us to new ways of looking at the world. These ideas, after they have been assessed rationally for their usefulness, can then be put to work, often as alternate approaches for solving problems.

5. Humanism is a philosophy for the here and now. Humanists regard human values as making sense only in the context of human life rather than in the promise of a supposed life after death.

6. Humanism is a philosophy of compassion. Humanist ethics is solely concerned with meeting human needs and answering human problems--for both the individual and society--and devotes no attention to the satisfaction of the desires of supposed theological entities.

7. Humanism is a realistic philosophy. Humanists recognize the existence of moral dilemmas and the need for careful consideration of immediate and future consequences in moral decision making.

8. Humanism is in tune with the science of today. Humanists therefore recognize that we live in a natural universe of great size and age that we evolved on this planet over a long period of time, that there is no compelling evidence for a separable "soul," and that human beings have certain built-in needs that effectively form the basis for any human-oriented value system.

9. Humanism is in tune with today's enlightened social thought. Humanists are committed to civil liberties, human rights, church-state separation, the extension of participatory democracy not only in government but in the workplace and education, an expansion of global consciousness and exchange of products and ideas internationally, and an open-ended approach to solving social problems, an approach that allows for the testing of new alternatives.

10. Humanism is in tune with new technological developments. Humanists are willing to take part in emerging scientific and technological discoveries in order to exercise their moral influence on these revolutions as they come about, especially in the interest of protecting the environment.

11. Humanism is, in sum, a philosophy for those in love with life. Humanists take responsibility for their own lives and relish the adventure of being part of new discoveries, seeking new knowledge, exploring new options. Instead of finding solace in prefabricated answers to the great questions of life, Humanists enjoy the open-endedness of a quest and the freedom of discovery that this entails.

right.... but by the fourth definition of religion...

humanism is a religion...

"A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."


i think humanists like to argue the fact that humanism is not a relgion.. understandably because of the bad connotation of the name.


www.americanhumanist.org...


www.americanhumanist.org...


www.jcn.com...

www.secularhumanism.org...






[Edited on 4-3-2003 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by Netchicken
Krossflyter - what is deeper than that? The sinful posessive eart of all man I supose.....

right somewhere around there.


think of the ideology of humanism or atheism and how that affects man and causes damage....



im not trying to be funny.. but i just want to see about something. learn.

Originally posted by krossfyter
right.... but by the fourth definition of religion...

humanism is a religion...

"A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

Maybe you have a case with humanism, if you're prepared to accept that by that definition Objectivism, anarchism, the American Constitution and a goodly number of people's jobs are also religions.

I seem to recall that China has invaded several nations around it's borders at one time or another...

Originally posted by adelaide

Originally posted by krossfyter
right.... but by the fourth definition of religion...

humanism is a religion...

"A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

Maybe you have a case with humanism, if you're prepared to accept that by that definition Objectivism, anarchism, the American Constitution and a goodly number of people's jobs are also religions.

indeed.