The Really Secret Societies

You know I have been invited to join a few societies in the course of my studies and one of the big things I have learned is that if a society wants to stay secret it will.

So my question would be:

These societies that are commonly talked about on this forum (Masons, Illuminati, Skull and Bones, ect) are these really the people we should be pointing the fingers at?

I have seen things that most would not believe, and there are some very powerful people involved in some very secret things, but really unless one goes looking for the real secrets, it's doubtful one will just read about it on the internet.

So has anyone been invited to any societies that they feel they can talk about or just the ones we always hear about?

~Astral

Your own introduction, kinda answers your own question.

His own introduction was a prelude to his question, and yes it did answer it. What would you rather have him do? Just ask the question? What was the point of your post? At least answer the question. Jesus (sorry Astral, I read you are pagan, LOL).

But to the author, no I don't think I have ... except being a part of the Whos Who Among American High School Students, but thats about as far from secret or sinister as you can get.

What exactly is the point of your post. Your answer....er I don't think I have...
Well have you or haven't you?
How can you not know?
Maybe the myriad of questions you get asked everyday, by strangers, in the street are really invitations to groups that noone has heard of. But then again you wouldn't know.

Since you have studied this, what have you found out? It would be interesting to hear from someone in the know....

@Smudge:
Now theres an answer. Good Job. I knew flaming would get it out of you.

Originally posted by Smudge
What exactly is the point of your post.

Unlike you, the point of my post was answer his question, not to point out the obvious and intended personal experience preluding his question. My answer being I don't know, and to throw in a little humor. Christ! (sorry again Astral).

@Astral:
Discussing your question further Astral, I'm sure there ARE even more secret societies than the pseudo-secret ones debated on on this board. There has to be - wether or not there is something sinister to them is questionable. If they really were secret, the only way that other people not in them to hear about them would be to have one of its members expose the group. Considering that statement of logic, it can be said that IF the Illuminati exists, or IF the Masons have a sinister plot, at one time they too might have been truly secret.

[Edited on 6/1/04 by xenophanes85]

Christ! (sorry again Astral).

Don't apologise to that heathen

Hey X you an Astral want a room?
My point is the question answers itself.
The only groups you know of, are groups people talk about.
Those that wont talk are hardly likely to make an exception because you asked nicely.
Which part of that do you not understand.
If your powers of reasoning and deduction are that slim its not surprising that you
" ...don't know..." whether or not you've been invited.

Okay, it sounds like most of you have not encountered the kind of societies I have, so let me tell a bit about my experences:

[Edit]

I got the kind of response I wanted.

~Astral

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by The Astral City]

I thought the topic was really secret societies. Raelians and spiritualists hardly qualify, as both will do anything for a few mins airtime. A quick search on google and you'll see just how secret they are.
The real secret societies are quite a different kettle of fish altogether.
There is no structure, there is no doctrine. The groups are small. Very small. Their aims are not to expand and gain members. Very often they begin with four or five and end that way. Their bond and secrecy is guaranteed by each members fear that exposure as a member of an alternative ( even by Masonic standards ) group is tantamount to professional suicide. They begin in the main fraternities and by chance discover a joint view of one aspect of the rites etc. Begin to meet and explore, before you know it its a once a month thing. Pretty soon you have a logo. And the rest as they say is history.

Bingo Smudge, nice to see some people pick up on things.

I guess there are some people on here that know what they are talking about too.

Just wondering though, why the refernce to college frats? haha they're about as secret as the beer they drink.

~Astral

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by The Astral City]

I'm sure the top guys in the CFR, Trilaterial Comission, IMF etc... Have their own inner circle, secret society if you will.

We don't hear about thier meetings and dealings, only what their thraw organizations do. The real decisions are hidden from view, we just see the results, ie what we're supposed to see.

Originally posted by The Astral City
You know I have been invited to join a few societies in the course of my studies and one of the big things I have learned is that if a society wants to stay secret it will.

I'm very curious as to which secret societies have invited you to join? Do you mena to say that by studying these groups, they became aware of you and wanted you in their membership?
Inquiring minds want to know!
________________________________
RE: earlier posts:
why would Astral being a pagan have anything to do with his postings?

There's all kinds of stuff out there, Elu Cohen, A.A., the SIs, etc. You just need to know where to look.

fra�ter�ni�ty �� (�P�)��Pronunciation Key��(fr-t�rn-t)
n. pl. fra�ter�ni�ties

1. A body of people associated for a common purpose or interest, such as a guild.

2. A group of people joined by similar backgrounds, occupations, interests, or tastes: the fraternity of bird watchers.

3. A chiefly social organization of men students at a college or university, usually designated by Greek letters.

4. Roman Catholic Church. A sodality.

5. The quality or condition of being brothers; brotherlines

Astral, not being from the U.S, I was not thinking of your College fraternities.
Above is the definition of the word fraternity as I understand it, and it was as such that it was used in my post.
Needless to say, number 4 kinda stands out don't you think.

Oh ok I believe I understand a bit better now Smudge, thanks.

There are quite a few people out there who believe that American college frats are in some way ruling the world, especially the Skull and Bones. I've seen quite a few of these entities too in my day and I'll say there is nothing secret or amazing about most college frats except how some of them stay out of prison and the headmaster's office.

Now the Fraternal Orders in the Catholic Church, I understand what you're saying, those are a different story. They have had a great deal of infulence especially in Europe durring the Middle Ages and Age Of Imperialism.

~Astral

Correctamondo, now who would have the most to lose and therefore the greatest reason to act secretively. Priests for one. Especially at a time when the Catholic church was a global power able to appoint or remove independant Kings of nations at will.
There are many instances where priests have used the church as cover for their own less orthodox studies. Probably the most notable being Sauniere of Rennes-Le-Chateau.
Around 1890 he was renovating his tenth century church when he made a discovery, it is claimed, that propelled him from around 100 fr. a month to 160,000 fr. a month income. But the wealth is not really the issue, moreover it is the people that began to visit him and his church, known members, through association, of the Rosicrucians and/or Priory of Sion. One Murder and strange Papal interference later and the Sauniere story is guaranteed a high place on the list of evidence that points to the church being infiltrated by inner ' scret societies ' determined to excavate and scrutinise churches and documents in an attempt to find what it was the church had been hiding, arguably since the time of Jesus.
And still it goes on. 1950's Jean Cocteau like Da Vinci before him managed to decorate the Notre Dame de France in Londons Leicester Sq with symbolism so blatantly unorthodox that he must surely have had an internal sympathiser who approved his work. Notably the church is round which in itself goes against the wishes of the Vatican.
And remember this was done in 1950's not 1050.
Back to the point, to have manouvered oneself into a high enough position within the church to be able to commision the building of a round church and to have it decorated by Jean Cocteau Grand Master of supposedly the Priory means that you have a serious secret society operating within the church at the highest levels.
More interesting than the groups inside the church following less than orthodox doctrines, are the tiny group that control the millions of mainstream devoties that also happen to be voters in one democracy or another. So we see world leaders pay homage to the papacy at every available opurtunity less they lose the Catholic vote back home. This is less important now but throughout European history the church has made Kings and kingdoms. I find it difficult to believe that they do not still hold great sway within certain Govts.

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Smudge]

I would personally wonder a bit about governmental actions by the Catholics, I believe that it is going on but I am still unsure as to what countries they are active in.

The United States seems to be a logical choice, however the Americans have reciently been moving closer to a Protestant Fundamentalist view more than moderate Catholocism. I believe that the so called Moral Majority or Christian Right have a lot of sway in America right now. One group in particular, the Christian Coalition have warped the Republican party to their will. Now I would not say that this is one of the more secret societies but their higher retainers I believe (and have some evidence) are.

There is a growing movement in the US to try to bring about a pre-Aquinas & Augustine version of the Christian end of the world, called the "End Times" Most of these groups wish for Israel to complete its control of the western holy land and replace the Dome Of The Rock with a new temple. This is all supposed to call down Christ and bring about the end of the world. These groups have had a bit of a hand in making sure that peace is not going to happen in the Middle East anytime soon (ever wonder why Bush's "Roadmap" plan was so weak)

There are also a number of groups that are involved in underground religious wars, most are conservative groups that commit acts against Pagans, pro-lifers and homsexuals. Now, as a pro-life, pagan who is a gay rights supporter I have never been invited to join these groups but I can say they do exist.

One of the scarier groups that I have encountered (and one of the true secret societies) is a small society that believes they have been charged by god to be Templar of Inquisition. They are about 100 strong at absolute most. They are operating in the United States and Europe and there are rumors that they have begun to infiltrate into the Middle East. This group is very violent and wishes for Fundamentalist Christianity to be the world's one religion.

Now most of the groups that I have been approached by I am on very good terms with and I would not like to out any group that does not wish to be, but I will ask any I will write about any that are willing, I can think of a couple that would probably not mind it.

~Astral

Ah yes, the secret societies v N.W.O. subject. Here is an issue that makes the study of
" secret Societies " difficult.

There appears to be three different types of group.

Firstly the Social Fraternities, who recruit from college students. Many people attach far too much importance to these groups as influences on national corporations through to governments. They are indeed in high places throughout the U.S but not because its part of a group led mission to take over the world, but rather because the best people at the best Universities are recruited into the groups, so as to be of use to the Frats. The new recruit will either be extremely well conected through family, or be of such superior ability as to be of use later in life. Needless to say fifteen years later these high performing college students are among the best business and political brains. Once their previous conections are exposed the public assume they have their position as a result of their membership. The truth however is they are recruited because of their future usefulness and would have made achievments without membership.
These groups are generally harmless, their symbology is a cross pollination from the founder members involvement in an altogether different type of group, The Freemasons.

Secondly we have the descendants of the original Secret Societies ( my own interest ) groups who do not require members to be of any particular social standing, groups that do little to further each others social or business status. These groups are more like religious organisations with a belief in alternative doctrines, often but not always, based around an early version, they believe, of christianity. Some are more pagan in their practices, some combine the two, stating that Jesus teachings were much closer to the pagan ideaology than the modern orthodox version of events we are fed today.
Again these groups are not dangerous today, their reputation as devil worshippers and practicioners of sordid sex rites, although based partly on truth, is largely a result of the two thousand year persecution by the church in an attempt to impose itself as the dominant global religion.

Thirdly and without doubt most dangerous among the groups are the ' wanna be's '.
These are people that have basic character flaws that would make them dangerous to society and its structures regardless of their affiliations. They might have been football hooligans or racist gang members, had things turned out differently, but instead some early exposure to incorect accounts of the original societies, leaves them desperate to join or start their own groups with the intention to do nothing except vent the frustration they feel, at the society they do not fit into. The ideaology ( right!! ) and doctrine of these groups is based around disruption to society and development of a false air of mystery. Unfortunately these groups are responsible for colouring the general public's understanding of the others.

as a footnote some cross pollination does occur and we see members or ex members moving from one type of group to another. Taking with them mystery and rites associated with former groups, so apparently adding credence to the seemingly ancient beginings of groups that in truth are no older than it's members.

I think...

Smudge, I do like your breaking the majority of groups into those three categories as you have.

Most of the groups I have studied and encountered belong to the later two categories. Some of the more general impressions I have gotten from the second order of groups (the current incarnations of original secret societies

Their "sexual deviance" as the Christians have deemed it usually involve orgies and nude rituals, fun stuff to be sure, but this is not usually based upon some lustful idea of devil worshiping sin, but instead upon a desire to reach a state of harmony with nature, the elements and life.

Almost none of these groups actually worship the Christian devil, most of these societies are based upon pre-Christian religion many of which did not have a said "devil." Even Satanists do not worship satan, their common name was given to them as a dirge by Christians.

The third and I agree most dangerous class of groups, I have covered a bit in my previous posting.

One of the more interesting crossover groups I have seen though are American collegate fundamentalist groups. While not always secret societies in the traditional sense, they form a bit of the first group (the college fraternal order) in with the third class (the dangerous wannabes)
While these groups are usually happy to just debate with other organizations and have a club type atmosphere for fundamentalist Christians, some have become violent, and others have begun to plan for the "end times" rumors I have heard even have some of these organizations stockpiling weapons and such for the Christian Armageddon, but I have yet to see much absolute proof of this.

~Astral