What has happened to our society? Is EVIL growing?

reply to post by OldThinker

Welcome to ATS! With this move to socialism...in your mind, what is 'Good'? and what is 'Bad'???

Depends on what one's view is of socialism. I believe just as with any government it can be put into those two categories. The first thing any government is going to do is try to raise currency through means that they choose.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


May I ask your view of the natural order of things?

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


Your gonna see... www.abovetopsecret.com... OT is an open ole guy....committed to TLJC though, for more decades than I want to admit.

JC was the "originator" of community

"one another" OT

reply to post by OldThinker


By originator, I need to know what your mean? A type of community? Or Set the boundary of communities from word.

Originally posted by OldThinker

I tear up everytime I see it? Did you like it too?

One of the best movies ever, IMHO. Yes, its still an eye-waterer for me too. I thought people were supposed to tear up less at stuff like that when they got older. What did I know?...

When it came out I was going through a kind of personal crisis and that movie actually inspired me to make a bold leap that changed my life forever. But that's another story.

OK, I'll stop derailing the thread now...back to good and evil.

reply to post by OldThinker


I find your assertion that Jesus was the originator of community to be racist, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

What we will agree on is that as this country leans more towards the worship of Mammon we will have more and more problems.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


We all remember what happened in Germany after WWI. A large reason to why Hitler was able to take power was that he basically saved Germany (and thereby Europe) from long-term economic depression. It's hard to see an American politician doing the the same thing, because they fail to look beyond the current economic paradigm put in place by private speculators, and neither of them seem to understand the Federal Reserve and how the banking system works. Their answer to our problems will be the same as Bush: print more money and rescure whatever company about to go bankrupt. It doesn't work. Yes, we temporarily "saved" Wall Street, but what if we look at the value of the dollar? Is it going up or down? We already know the answer: it's about to hit rock bottom.

Our civilization can either be dominated by governments with radically different values, or we can relapse into the same proxyrule under the oligarchy controlling our democracies. If we're lucky, local regions will be able to self-organize and reject any centralized platforms that inevitably lead us back to the same globalist order we live under today.

The "Fascist" and "Far Right" parties, although not democratic, told us since WWI that Europe would be controlled by internationalist neo-Stalinists unless we fought for national and cultural independence. And look, despite the evil plots made by Mussolini, Hitler and Franco, these men seem to have predicted our future much better than demoratic homeboys like Churchill could ever wish for. They said Eastern Europe, particularly Russia, would become a problem. Check. They said Europe would exchange its traditional culture for capitalist supermarkets. Check. They said internationalists would control our economies for the benefit of a top ruling class. Check. They said we'd lose consensus among our people and dissolve social cohesion. Check.

I could go on all day, but without necessarily stating we'd be better off if the Axis powers had won WWII, we need to realize that we've been duped since the end of that war. We thought the West would free the world from poverty, inequality and fascism. Look what happened: we strenghtened radicalism and extremism across the globe, we created social and economical gaps no one could ever dream of back then, and while our technology and values raised the standards of the third world, we did so either by in turn controlling it economically and politically, or ignore the consequences of industrial growth (who's going to "help" these countries protect their environment? Answer: no one, except if there's money to be earned in the process).

Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by OldThinker

I tear up everytime I see it? Did you like it too?

One of the best movies ever, IMHO. Yes, its still an eye-waterer for me too. I thought people were supposed to tear up less at stuff like that when they got older. What did I know?...

When it came out I was going through a kind of personal crisis and that movie actually inspired me to make a bold leap that changed my life forever. But that's another story.

OK, I'll stop derailing the thread now...back to good and evil.

Seriously, no rerailing there friend...

For those that watched, really watched, the movie...

Will bring great insight to this discussion...it is ALL related, in my humble mind

Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I find your assertion that Jesus was the originator of community to be racist, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

What we will agree on is that as this country leans more towards the worship of Mammon we will have more and more problems.

Sorry, no intention to offend, friend...

I've never been accused of being a 'racist', could you elaborate?

Its ok to disagree, but are you open for another's opinion here?

OT

PS: I think I was kinda supporting you there

reply to post by concernedcitizan


And that my friend is exactly where I was taking this thread. Very well said!!!

Yes, you and I could discuss this at length.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum

I would argue that for the majority of humanities existence we have existed in tribal groups. Those groups are an expression of pure communism. Since we evolved along those lines we are better suited for that existence. Our family units even exist along these lines.

Now I understand how one could come to the conclusion that a tribal group would start off with government, but I would say that a tribal group started with just the need of survival. A government will only come about when the greater percentage of the tribe would want a form of government, to understand it as government. That would put forth a postulate to form a theory that would make the very first government as Democratic.

The need to survive is the driving force that propels any instinctive motive that would arise in any said advancement.

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by silent thunder


You sound like an old 'soc' friend of mine...

It difinitely moved me in a direction, too....

I guess in the short term, I'd been Di Niro, but in the longterm (as an individual) Irons, would probably been best...

reply to post by OldThinker


No offense taken, no worries.

We as a species created community. Communities that laid the groundwork for civilizations that became superpowers did so with out the help of a Jewish carpenter.

And, yes I am open to other forms of thought. But, my position will only change when a more rational position is provided. It has been known to happen from the oddest of places.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by OldThinker

 

By originator, I need to know what your mean? A type of community? Or Set the boundary of communities from word.

Nothing profound,,,,TLJC set a good example of "one another-ism" and the early church needed "community" for initiation and for that matter "survival"

Not sure how far to take it to "governing bodies" I dunno?

reply to post by concernedcitizan

They said Eastern Europe, particularly Russia, would become a problem. Check. They said Europe would exchange its traditional culture for capitalist supermarkets. Check. They said internationalists would control our economies for the benefit of a top ruling class. Check. They said we'd lose consensus among our people and dissolve social cohesion. Check.

Okay. I find this amusing for one reason. The answers to how they came up with this is really easy. I say as a truth. Any mad-made government only want power over their citizenry. Any government would have done the same thing as you just mentioned.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by OldThinker

 

By originator, I need to know what your mean? A type of community? Or Set the boundary of communities from word.

Nothing profound,,,,TLJC set a good example of "one another-ism" and the early church needed "community" for initiation and for that matter "survival"

Not sure how far to take it to "governing bodies" I dunno?

Hmmm. Okay. Just wondering. Aww you where referring to as a good community to live in. Yeah I would have to agree. That would be the ultimate community.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by AdAbsurdum

 

May I ask your view of the natural order of things?

Good question.....

AA?

OT

reply to post by Conclusion


Watch THE MISSION, 1986 movie...and then let's further the "community" discussion, k?

OT

link:
www.imdb.com...

more: The Mission is a 1986 British film about the experiences of a Jesuit missionary in 18th century South America. The film was written by Robert Bolt and directed by Roland Joffé. It stars Robert De Niro, Jeremy Irons, Ray McAnally, Aidan Quinn, Cherie Lunghi and Liam Neeson. It won the Palme d'Or and the Academy Award for Best Cinematography. In April 2007, it was elected number one on the Church Times Top 50 Religious Films list.[1] The music, scored by Italian composer Ennio Morricone, was listed at #23 on AFI's 100 Years of Film Scores.

link: en.wikipedia.org...(film)

reply to post by OldThinker

Not sure how far to take it to "governing bodies" I dunno?

Only one place to take it.

Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
[......
And, yes I am open to other forms of thought. But, my position will only change when a more rational position is provided. It has been known to happen from the oddest of places.

wow, that's how it usually is...again welcome!

Rational OT (hopefully)