New Party ....Constitutionlist Party of The United States

Originally posted by endisnighe
Okay Jethro, you are getting me confused. The 16th Amendment is the basis of taxation for the US which was enacted to eliminate our debt due to war and was supposed to be temporary.

The main question behind this Amendment was where did the government change the meaning of income to include labor. At the time, labor was never included in the definition of income.

I suppose the point is, that they do not HAVE to actually define "income" as the amendment says "from whatever source derived".

Regardless of when they changed the definition, it includes labor now and is currently a well-seasoned staple of American life. The 16th Amendment was probably the worst Amendment ever written or ratified.

As for the Federal Government making something illegal that is legal in the state, I am referring to Marijuana. This of course could be used in thousands of different components. I am just saying with this, where in the US Constitution does it give the right to make these type things illegal.

I can only point to the Commerce Clause, which is the lion's share of legal justification when it comes to Federal Practice. I really don't know specifically though, and I'd imagine it's a pretty thick subject.

Yes, our system is messed up enough, me trying to understand their's? Sorry, I thought the basic tenet involved when drafting the Constitution was the ability to understand and use it by normal folk like me.

Actually no. The Constitution was not written to you and it's not really about you. It was written to and for the government by the States, which represented what they thought the people who sent them should get.

But the further and more corrupt components of the LAWYER system developed, the more complex and IMPOSSIBLE they made it to understand. Almost with the ability to make the court system to say anything.

It's not the legalese that mucks things up, it's the laws and judicial precedent. I don't think they imagined a nation that had only really revolted once (of serious note at least) and didn't threaten the government with the very guns they want us to have.

It boggles the mind, but I've come to terms with the sordid history of our nation and the people that live in it.

Getting mad won't do anything unless you plan to put that anger into an IRS building or some other interesting display.

removed for off topic, Sorry OP.

[edit on 3/3/2010 by endisnighe]

removed for off topic, Sorry OP.

[edit on 3/3/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by endisnighe

The 16th Amendment is the basis of taxation for the US which was enacted to eliminate our debt due to war and was supposed to be temporary.

The 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation.

the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of INDIRECT taxation to which it inherently belonged.

- Chief Justice Edward Douglass White, Jr, Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., 240 U.S. 103 (1916)

Income tax was declared unconstitutional before the adoption of the 16th Amendment

First. We adhere to the opinion already announced—that, taxes on real estate being indisputably direct taxes, taxes on the rents or income of real estate are equally direct taxes.

Second. We are of opinion that taxes on personal property, or on the income of personal property, are likewise direct taxes.

Third. The taxes imposed, so far as it falls on the income of real estate, and of personal property, being a direct tax, within the meaning of the constitution, and therefore unconstitutional and void, because not apportioned according to representation, all those sections, constituting one entire scheme of taxation, are necessarily invalid.

The decrees hereinbefore entered in this court will be vacated. The decrees below will be reversed, and the cases remanded, with instructions to grant the relief prayed.

-Chief Justice Melville Fuller, Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan and Trust Co., 157 U.S. 429 (1894)

[edit on 3-3-2010 by METACOMET]

reply to post by METACOMET


Okay damn it, why then (besides the fact that tax court judges are appointed by the President and that there are no juries) does no one ever succeed in defeating these asshats?

I know the tenets of the Constitution, if they are not adhered to, what course do we have?

Yes, I know the answer.

King George heard it.

Originally posted by endisnighe
I know the tenets of the Constitution, if they are not adhered to, what course do we have?

Yes, I know the answer.

King George heard it.

The men that kicked things off in the colonies were generally men of great prestige. Men with wealth and means and power. In my small opinion, I don't see that happening today. The men with wealth and power today, for the most part, use the standing government as a tool to obtain their wealth and power. And in turn they are sold to the institution which makes them rich.

Thoreau has a special take on the subject.

When I meet a government which says to me, "Your money or your life," why should I be in haste to give it my money? I perceive that, when an acorn and a chestnut fall side by side, the one does not remain inert to make way for the other, but both obey their own laws, and spring and grow and flourish as best they can, till one, perchance, overshadows and destroys the other. If a plant cannot live according to its nature, it dies; and so a man.

Originally posted by awakentired

While any person trying to cooerce an oath taker to abandon their oath will be treated not only as treason to the constitution but as battlefield treason. Punishible by firing squad. No court.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by awakentired]

I can agree with you on everything but this, and you knoiw why. It's UNCONSTITUTIONAL. If everyone does not have shared rights none do.
Real traitors would get theirs under a civil court, it just might take a little longer. Real justice should be done like Barbecue, slowly and thoroughly until the skin just starts to fall off

Originally posted by METACOMET
For clarification, the constitution went into effect on March 4, 1789. The bill of rights was proposed on September 25, 1789, and they weren't ratified until December 15, 1791 and they went into effect March 1, 1792.

They are not original to the constitution, they are amendments to the constitution.

Hey OP, check this out!
GOOOH (Get out of our House)

[edit on 3-3-2010 by METACOMET]

Thanks META for the link. I registered. This is the grass roots movement that will give the USA back to Americans if it succeeds.

There are too many threads splitting hairs over the constitution/bill of rights. Stop the arguing and get on topic please.
Look at the Goooh site and utubes and make comments. Lets try and be creative versus destructive. Creation is much more rewarding although not as easy.

reply to post by awakentired


Sorry, I was having drinks with the family last night.

No more banter from me. Penance and apologies spread around.

reply to post by endisnighe


They let you outta the cage End? Hows it going pal?

A few questions in regards to a party such as this (quick note, there is already a Constitution Party I believe) would be:

*What would be the platform?

*Could it harness the Internet and social networking sites to push its agenda and message to the masses?

*How would such a new party protect itself from infiltration from either the Democrats or Republicans?

That question right there is probably the most prevalent. If such a third party were to really explode upon the scene with a large enough momentum behind it, the Dems and Repubs would be doing everything in its power (and possibly outside of its power) to bring down the new party.

A good analogy of how our 2 party system is in operation today is nearly the same business model that two large corporations reside under. Squash the competition from the get go, become giants in the market and then fight for regulation and laws that make it highly and nearly impossible for the little guys to grow past the specks of dusts they are. Manipulate the system into allowing a "Biopoly" (made that word up)

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My suggestion would be and has always been is to start locally. That is where you can gain movement without loads of cash. Start to bring sound governing at the lowest levels to show people that your ideas do work. Begin to make a name for yourself and the party while inching your way to the Big Top.