Faith Schools To Get New Sex Ed 'Opt-Out

reply to post by AshleyD

They're not saying they never have to talk about these things- just that they can fine tune the curriculum to adhere to their religious beliefs. Whereas in secular schools, it cannot be blended in with theology.

Please explain to us how you believe its possible for a teacher to give a balanced view of anything when their religion dictates that something is wrong, but they are required by law to teach it equably? The law as initially proposed would have been difficult enough to police. This amendment just removes the need for policing. In reality, it will probably do more harm than good, since these topics must be brought up in the classroom, where previously they would have been largely ignored. However, now they must be tackled & inevitably given a religious spin.

The core issue is not what we believe about the issues or whether or not we agree. What this means is that the private sector won a round against big brother and get to run their religious based institutions according to their religious beliefs.

The moment "religious based institutions" pay their taxes, just like any other institution, then ok, they stand or fall by their skill at manipulating the cartel we generally call "the market" & can be called "the private sector" (perhaps you are unaware that actual private sector individuals & companies can partner with UK local education authorities to provide education?). For the moment, these "faith based" institutions are nothing more or less than a government subsidised ideological 5th column into the UK, most often politically championed (ie funded) by interests in the USA, the Vatican, Israel & Saudi Arabia.

reply to post by FortAnthemI'll resist your temptation to flame, since to do so would only derail the debate.
What I would like to know is what you personally think about homosexuality: in clear terms please. Quoting a disputed source really doesn't qualify as an argument, merely the repetition of somebody else's. I'm hoping that we can get right down to a discussion about all human sexuality, & the appropriateness of children learning the truth, ourselves.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

I'll resist your temptation to flame, since to do so would only derail the debate.
What I would like to know is what you personally think about homosexuality: in clear terms please. Quoting a disputed source really doesn't qualify as an argument, merely the repetition of somebody else's. I'm hoping that we can get right down to a discussion about all human sexuality, & the appropriateness of children learning the truth, ourselves.

My beliefs on this issue are the same as the Church's: Homosexual practices are a sin, just the same as adultery is a sin.

Teaching Catholic children that homosexual practices are OK and normal is the same in my eyes as teaching them that adultery is OK and normal. They both go against the moral teachings of the church.

The state should not be able to force any organization to teach something that goes against it's moral principals.

Originally posted by FortAnthem

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

I'll resist your temptation to flame, since to do so would only derail the debate.
What I would like to know is what you personally think about homosexuality: in clear terms please. Quoting a disputed source really doesn't qualify as an argument, merely the repetition of somebody else's. I'm hoping that we can get right down to a discussion about all human sexuality, & the appropriateness of children learning the truth, ourselves.

My beliefs on this issue are the same as the Church's: Homosexual practices are a sin, just the same as adultery is a sin.

Teaching Catholic children that homosexual practices are OK and normal is the same in my eyes as teaching them that adultery is OK and normal. They both go against the moral teachings of the church.

The state should not be able to force any organization to teach something that goes against it's moral principals.

Well then what about another harbinger of aids, heterosexual reproductive sex? Is teaching about personal health as it relates to sex itself against the Churches principals?

Is it a sin, or can the state teach children about something perfectly normal, natural and beautiful between a married man and woman?

Certainly all children should have the opportunity to understand the difference between the natural acts of a husband and wife and what the pastor may be doing to them in the confessional.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by FortAnthem


I'm trying not to "flame on" right now, but I am deeply disturbed by your complete lack of human compassion. Did not Jesus teach us to love all others equally? I cannot even begin to follow your warped logic.

“A study done in Vancouver in 2000 AD, and published in both the Journal of the Canadian Medical Association and the International Journal of Epidemiology, found that homosexual behaviour shortens life expectancy by 8-20 years (cutting 10-25% off the normal Canadian male lifespan).4

What??? Are they serious? I had to follow the link and root around for that study to see how badly those words are twisted, and they are more knotted and foul than a 5 foot dreadlock. The study tries to link homosexual tendencies to a shortened lifespan. Did they just assume that every homosexual male has HIV/AIDS? The entire basis of their study is that an infected person has a shortened lifespan. Well, really, I never would have guessed... but that is only for HIV+ people! How could they possibly liken HIV+ homosexual males to all people with homosexual tendencies. Honestly, why even bother trying to come up with "legitimate" science when your objective is just to drive a giant wedge through our society? Just get out the hammer!

It's the child's choice, not yours, between hetero- and homosexuality. It is indoctrination on the grandest scale if you decide that the child cannot learn about homosexuality in its full capacity, not just from your intolerant perspective. I can't even believe the amount of hypocrisy and double-standards glaring from that article. Alas, freedom of speech is great... most of the time.

You, my friend, just chugged from the GREAT chalice of Haterade, and I'm now going to put on my Hater-blockers to attempt to filter out the extreme amounts of Hateronomy.

reply to post by FortAnthem


I'm going to advance apologize for my inflammatory comment I just made, that was more about the article itself than you. Again, my apologies.

I will agree with you here,

The state should not be able to force any organization to teach something that goes against it's moral principals.

Although I will still maintain that it is indoctrination to not show them the whole picture and let them sort it out. After all, it is their mind, not the church's, nor anyone else's.

Though I suppose, one man's indoctrination is another's Holy teachings.

Edit to add: I keep forgetting this article is about a Catholic school. So my arguments really hold no ground in this instance, as it is their right as a private institution. I'm more of a let-everyone-see-everything kind of guy I guess.

Kind regards,
NEXUS

[edit on 24-2-2010 by NoEXcUseS]

Originally posted by AshleyD
What this means is that the private sector won a round against big brother and get to run their religious based institutions according to their religious beliefs.

...i dont have a problem with religious schools teaching whatever they want to teach, even the topics i find deplorable - AS LONG AS - they get no funding from the government, not even those disguised as faith-based initiatives...

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I am STRONGLY against homosexuality being taught in school
this is wrong no ifs and buts

I would NEVER let me kids go to such a school, even if it meant me leaving the continent!!

Disgusting

Yea, because your kids will never see gay behavior out in public right?

Way to keep them even more sheltered and unaware of reality.

reply to post by FortAnthem

Teaching Catholic children that homosexual practices are OK and normal is the same in my eyes as teaching them that adultery is OK and normal. They both go against the moral teachings of the church.

Yeah right. I don't think the Catholic church should be moralizing about anyone's sexuality as they don't have that good of a track record even within the church. Have you forgotten this?

www.aztlan.net...

and this...

en.wikipedia.org...

how bout this one???

www.trosch.org...

here's a good one....

newsinfo.inquirer.net...

Right, protect your kid from learning about homosexuals by sending them to Catholic school.....






[edit on 24-2-2010 by whaaa]

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Lets stop sexualizing the kids, let them have SOME innocence in their childhood, and let nature take its course... Has done since the dawn of time anyway!!

Starred!

Unfortunately, that's not the "progressive" way. It is just another means of control, which "they" want to exert over all of us. "They" see sex education as another important role to take away from the parent. Particularly, from those "ignorant religious types".

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
The moment "religious based institutions" pay their taxes, just like any other institution,

Responding from the viewpoint of taxation in the U.S., do you mean like educational institutions (schools), non-profit institutions, charitable institutions, etc? All of which are tax exempt. That's really not a sound argument.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by WTFover]

Originally posted by NoEXcUseS
Alas, freedom of speech is great... most of the time.

As are the rest of the topics of the First Amendment. Including freedom of religion.

reply to post by Yissachar1

Why is it the states responsibility to teach kids about sex anyway??

Why is it the state's responsibility to impose speed limits on roads? What about good farming practices, or safe work environments? Surely, our parents' advice, or lack thereof, should be adequate to prepare us for these endeavours? After all, not everyone engages in them, so why bother making rules?
With something so fundamentally important as sex, there is a damn good reason to ensure that we all get told the current state-of-the-art thinking: ignorance is only bliss until someone takes advantage of it.
Could it be that the evidence suggests that whatever parents are telling their kids, it just isn't working well enough to be acceptable to a modern society?

reply to post by FortAnthem

The state should not be able to force any organization to teach something that goes against it's moral principals.

I agree. If a particular corporate entity wishes to teach children something in flagrant disregard to the society around it (& the bulk of their own members), then it should have the right to do so & stand or fall by how many parents are willing to pay for such "education". However, the moment a penny of public money is spent on these schools, which also includes the tax exemption the parent organisation enjoys on income from land leases, rents, investments, etc., then their conduct becomes a matter of public concern.
As a UK tax payer, if I agree that my money should be used to fund people telling children that "adultery is a sin", then I might just as well be agreeing to pay to tell kids that genital mutilation is correct, or that the entire world should cease activity once a week simply because a particular religion views it as a holy day. Er... in Britain that could be difficult: friday, saturday, or sunday? Perhaps all of them, in the name of "religious tolerance". I'd vote for thursday as well, its the night when students tend to let rip: cheaper, you know?

To be fair, even if these Faith schools tried to limit what these kids are taught, i'm sure curiosity would take its toll and google would answer a few questions.
Hell, i learned more from google about sex then i did in school. Sex ed was always a boched job.
Though i am firm in the opinion that people should be taught that there is nothing wrong with gays, bi's or even wanting to have alot of sex.
Kids have the power of the internet now and no doubt, they will use it.