9/11 Questions and ONE Single Answer... WE WILL NOT FORGET!

It is almost like a void - the distraction of argument itself never letting us move forward

It isn't about what did or did not happen on 9/11

That is causing division between all of us - it is about what they have done since that day - the Pandora's Box that it opened!

Look around - nothing has gotten better since 9/11

It has become worse - and these issues are keeping us from solving the problem.

9/11 - no matter who did it - is the catalyst for the destruction of the United States - and our Representatives and Leaders are taking full advantage of it - changing U.S. policy and the very fabric of America.

We are bankrupt because of these wars and Wall Street - now they are turning us into a Marxist Socialized Nation!

Damn people - wake up

Important information about airspace and transponders!

Originally posted by TwoPhish
I am a Truther. Been one ever since September 12th 2001! But when other 'Truthers' acclaim nonsense it makes me and every other Truther out there look like a bunch of morons. Not to mention this gives people like Bill O'Reily more ammuniation to fire towards us and broadcast it to his Sheeple audience!

A '50 mile no-fly zone'? Are ya kidding me? How is that even possible seeing there's an airport within a few miles of the Pentagon?

Perhaps there's a no-fly over the Pentagon at which time, the military should be scrambled but to say things like 'a 50-mile no fly zone' around the Pentagon sets our quest and reputation back, years!

There are enough non-consistencies and questionable actions that day that we don't need made up claims. Now....stop it!!!!



[edit on 16-2-2010 by TwoPhish]

Okay, now for a little education... I am a private pilot by-the-way, so I will tell you about restricted areas, also known informally as "no-fly-zones." These are areas of restricted airspace that have VERY strict rules against any type of private traffic, and any aircraft authorized to travel through them are very carefully watched with special "squawk" codes on the transponder, and ANY deviation whatsoever would trigger an automatic military aircraft response.

In the United States, the phrase "no-fly zone" has no legal meaning. What most people would consider a "no-fly zone" is termed by the Federal Aviation Administration a "Prohibited Area". Prohibited Areas are permanent until canceled and are published in the Federal Register and at sua.faa.gov..., and are depicted by blue hashed boundaries on aeronautical charts.

Active Prohibited Areas:
* Thurmont, Maryland, site of Presidential retreat Camp David (Prohibited Area 40 or P-40)
* Amarillo, Texas, Pantex nuclear assembly plant (P-47)
* Washington, D.C., Please see Other restrictions for information about all Active Prohibited Areas in the Washington D.C./Baltimore Flight Restricted Zone.
* Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay, Georgia (P-50)
* Naval Base Kitsap, Washington (P-51)
* Bush compound near Kennebunkport, Maine (P-67)
* Mount Vernon, Virginia, home of George Washington (to prevent vibrations) (P-73)
* Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness in northern Minnesota (P-204, 205, and 206)
* Merritt Island, Florida, All civilian flight operations in and around the island are prohibited due to NASA and U.S. Military operations at the Kennedy Space Center.
* Houston, Texas, All civilian flight operations in and around the area of the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center prohibited due to NASA and U.S. Military operations.
* Hyannis Port, Massachusetts, Airspace around the Kennedy Compound[3].

And additionally, the area around Washington DC has a another unique designation as the Flight Restriction Zone:

In addition to areas completely off limits to civil aviation, a variety of other airspace restrictions exist in the United States. Some notable ones include the Flight Restriction Zone (FRZ) encompassing all airspace up to 18,000 feet (5,500 m) within approximately 15 nautical miles (28 km) of Ronald Reagan National Airport around Washington, D.C. Flights within this airspace, while not entirely prohibited, are highly restricted. All pilots flying within the FRZ are required to undergo a background check and fingerprinting. An additional area encompassing most of the Baltimore-Washington D.C. metropolitan area requires the filing of a flight plan and communication with air traffic control.

Source

So, not only is Washington DC listed as a PROHIBITED AREA, it is also listed as a FRZ (Flight Restriction Zone) as well.

This entire area is called the P-56 area, and actually extends 17 miles in all directions from the Washington monument...previous mention of a 50-mile area was a rough approximation of the actual 34-mile area.

Please refer the excellent reference article on P-56 in the following link:

P-56

Now, after 9/11, there is an additional airspace over an area that encompasses most of Baltimore-Washington D.C. metropolitan area called the DC ADIZ, which has a 60-mile radius.

Turning off transponders

Also, when looking at the various sites that discuss the fully released ATC tapes of that day, we read of planes being lost on radar because transponders were turned off:

Released Air Traffic Control Tapes

Frankly, that is just plane BULL-PUCKY! When you are flying, the primary radar system used by ATC (air traffic control) is able to see you just fine. The transponder system, which are part of the secondary radar system, functions to IDENTIFY you to the controller.

When you first enter a controlled airspace the radar shows you on the screen, along with any other unidentified aircraft. The controller will then assign you a number, which you then dial in to the transponder, and then you push the "squawk" button, which causes your aircraft blip to "bloom," getting brighter on the controller's screen.

If you filed a flight plan (which all commercial flights must do), the Flight Data Processor will assign your aircraft information to the blip. For smaller aircraft operating under VFR (visual flight rules), he can type your call sign into his terminal. From that point on your aircraft BLIP is showing your aircraft call sign and other flight plan information on his screen. That is the main function of the transponder - identification, not location. Mode C and S transponders can also report altitude information, since radar only tracks bearing and range-position.

Now, if you turn off the transponder that does nothing to make you disappear from the radar, nor does it cause your ID information to disappear because of the Radar Data Processor and the Flight Data Processor. The primary radar is tracking your aircraft, and the RDP and FDP has your information already attached to the blip. What will happen if you turn it off is the radar will show that your transponder is no longer responding to the interrogation signal, and that will cause an alert on their screen. The only thing that CAN'T happen if the transponder is off is additional squawking should the controller want you to ident again. Also, altitude information will not be available if the transponder is off. That is all.

In fact, by turning the transponder off, that will make an aircraft stand out on the screen, since all other aircraft have their transponders on.

For more information on how the ATC Radar Beacon System works, please refer to:

ATC Radar Beacon System


[edit on 16-2-2010 by downisreallyup]

Alfie - you're attempt to dispel doubts about the surviving alleged terrorist's passport are not convincing.

You referenced the Caspian Airlines plane crash in northern Iran where documents survived - but this airplane was not surrounded by a plume of burning fuel as it plunged into the heart of a high-rise which subsequently imploded into clouds of dust and debris. On the contrary, it exploded upon impact with the ground: "The impact shook the ground like an earthquake. Then, plane pieces were scattered all over the fields,"

Furthermore, as is almost invariably the case, the flight data recorders were recovered intact. Now at the WTC, we are supposed to believe that nothing of the four data recorders was found (although several witnesses claim otherwise).

The photos you linked to of WTC debris from the buildings don't have any bearing on the matter. These were not papers from the airplanes. It's all the more fishy, given how little survived, that this vital piece of incriminating evidence conveniently floated down intact. It fits a pattern of suspiciously convenient coincidences which enabled the authorities to quickly establish Arab terrorists as the perpetrators. Even the mainstream media expressed incredulity at the time: Uncle Sam's Luck Finds Guardian, 19 March 2002


[edit on 16-2-2010 by EvilAxis]

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by daddio
NO, YOU don't get it. The core was brought down first, it IMPLODED creating the vacuum that sucked that top chunk back in.

You claim to have studied physics, but think that a vacuum created in a few hundred cubic metres can suck in thousands of tonnes of concrete and steel....

Just how much sillier can "truthers" actually get, and how sillier can their silly conspiracy theories get, posting garbage like this claim.

[edit on 16/2/10 by dereks]

You know what dude? I think you are right. Exactly right on this. There is no way on God's Green earth that this huge chunk of building got Sucked back into it's own footprint.

Here



Now, since you obviously have the physics expertise to explain to me why this chunk didn't tople over and leave the rest of the building there, I would sleep much better tonight.

Thanks in advance for your non-trolling response.

edit to add: BTW, check out this thread. It's really great, and fits right in with your way of thinking.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by network dude]

Originally posted by Curio

Originally posted by Alfie1


If a life-vest can survive unscathed at the WTC then there is no logical reason a passport can't.

Who is grasping at straws ?

There are hundreds of life vests on a 767 - the chances of one of them surviving is very high compared to, say, the passport of ONE of the passengers.

Again, I don't think anybody is arguing that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the passport to have survived. It's the odds, especially in context with the many other such coincidences, that have people bemused.

You say you don't think anybody is arguing that it is impossible for the passport to have survived but is that not precisely what TaZCoN has been doing with his " pyroclastic debris cloud reminiscent of the Mt St Helens eruption ."

I am afraid I don't follow your logic about one passport versus multiple life-vests. How do you know how many other passports were on the plane and were destroyed ?

Originally posted by arizonascott
It is almost like a void - the distraction of argument itself never letting us move forward

It isn't about what did or did not happen on 9/11

That is causing division between all of us - it is about what they have done since that day - the Pandora's Box that it opened!

Look around - nothing has gotten better since 9/11

It has become worse - and these issues are keeping us from solving the problem.

9/11 - no matter who did it - is the catalyst for the destruction of the United States - and our Representatives and Leaders are taking full advantage of it - changing U.S. policy and the very fabric of America.

We are bankrupt because of these wars and Wall Street - now they are turning us into a Marxist Socialized Nation!

Damn people - wake up

While in general you are correct, the fact is, depending on who perpetrated 9/11, there is a very different course of action that must be taken.

If middle-eastern men did the deed, then you should continue seeking out all those over there who were responsible and bring them to justice.

If, however, 9/11 was a false flag operation against the American public, then you have a very different problem on your hands. You have a rogue government that is totally out of control and no longer responsive to the people of the country.

Unless you know WHO the enemy truly is, you can't effectively deal with the problem. If there are indeed rogue elements within the U.S. government, then they are obviously still there, plotting their next move. Once the people of the U.S. realize that this is indeed the case, then the next step will be taking the correct action to rid yourselves of that blight.

The problem is, these elements possess the "control levers behind the curtain" to make their big scary image spew fire on the public view screen. You all need to stop "paying no attention to the man behind the curtain" and take the steps of a little dog that simply pulls back the curtain.

Originally posted by network dude
Now, since you obviously have the physics expertise to explain to me why this chunk didn't tople over and leave the rest of the building there, I would sleep much better tonight.

It started to topple because one side failed first, due to aircraft damage and the fires. However, after it started falling due to one side falling first, the building beneath it was not strong enough to stop a moving mass od several thousand tonnes, so it then started falling straight down.

To think that it would keep toppling what would it pivot on? You can see from the picture that as well as tilting it is also falling vertically

reply to post by dereks


You singled out two of the OP's original eleven questions and contnuiously tried to degrade him by labeling him a truther. Why?

You were wrong with your source, you didn't even read it all.

Why are you even here?

What about the other nine questions?

What do you think about every single one of them?

Are those questions totally off-base in your mind too?

Or does asking one wrong question make the entire 9/11 official story true?

It is better to seek the TRUTH than live in a FALSE world. I don't think you will ever understand that.

reply to post by Alfie1



Your condescending tone and your attempt at baiting me during your opening paragraph, does little to inspire confidence in me, that you are actually seeking the truth of this matter. Quite the reverse in fact.

I would advise you to heed your own suggestion regarding research and perform a little yourself.

Peter Power head of visor consultants, a crisis management firm based in London. It's a good name for you to Google, and everyone else reading this, for that matter.

The Net is literally awash with this guy saying, both on camera for National news media, and live on national radio of his astonishment, at the monumental coincidences between what his company was doing during a security exercise, performed for a large corporate clientèle and what happened during the events of 7/7, in exactly the stations that were featured in their hypothetical scenario...this knowledge, would strike a rational person as highly odd, to say the least!

But i suspect you already know, and for reasons best known only to yourself, you're deliberately being obstinate and goading, and choosing to attempt to agitate.

As i said, if you truly want to know the facts surrounding the points you dismiss so easily, the tools of discovery are at your fingertips. The keys on your keyboard are not only there for insulting people..

Don't be lazy and expect others to run around the net researching and then providing all the links and answers for you on a plate. A simple search verifies the validity of what i said in an earlier post, to anyone remotely interested in finding out.

I will admit I don't know this as fact rather, from what I've read around the Internet but, how is it not one alleged hijacker made it on the manifest? How did they get on those planes and under whose identity?
There were no alias (from what I read) for everyone was accounted for. So again, how did 19 middle Eastern men board 4 planes without being on any passenger list?

[edit on 16-2-2010 by TwoPhish]

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by daddio
HOW, HOW in the freakin world did it not continue on it's path and topple over? Only a vacuum from the core of the building could have kept that HUGE chunk of building from toppling off. Simple Physics, Newton. The three laws.

So now we have another silly conspiracy theory - somehow, the government caused a huge vacuum in the core.... again it shows some conspiracy theorists do not understand physics.

And conspiracy theorists wonder why they are treated as wierd

I am going to ask you nicely to stop with your name calling. I am tired of seeing you continue to use that childish word "silly" since it only serves to make you look that way yourself.

I am not calling anyone names here, and even though I find your approach to all this very distasteful I am still presenting facts to the best of my ability (given my time constraints that I am also working), and attempting to answer every objection with facts that I already know or ones that I honestly research, looking at both "truster" and "truther" sites.

You falsely call our position a "silly conspiracy theory" and yet you fail to realize that the OS is also a conspiracy theory, and in many people's minds it is the silliest of all. But, we don't continue to harp at you trusters, calling the OS a "silly conspiracy theory." We call it the OFFICIAL STORY because that is a more respectful tone when discussing intellectual subjects.

In the past I allowed you to infuriate me with your BEHAVIOR and methods of discussion, but I have hardened myself to those tactics and am bound and determined not to let you derail threads that are designed for intelligent conversation.

So, please, stop with the silliness of calling everything silly and just present your information or counter-arguments. And when I take the time to give you a counter to something you have said, please take the time to address that issue until one of us has no more arguments. This is the only way we will find the truth.

By the way... if I ever come to see that the OS has the best answers for all the questions I have, I will gladly accept it and declare myself a TRUSTER... gladly! I would much rather be that, since it would alleviate much trouble and anxiety.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Another question!

Q: Why are there no photographs or videos of flight 175 from the west? A photograph from the west would reveal the TOP of the aircraft and the paint scheme on it. The only shots that I have seen of flight 175 are from the east, with the belly of the plane turned away from the camera. The World Financial Center buildings are to the west of the WTC so it is hard to imagine that nobody in those buildings took a photo or video of the second plane hitting, given that the first plane had already hit so there was plenty of reason to be looking at the buildings.

A: Conspiracy? It is quite possible that anyone who had such a photo would be quite afraid to show it if indeed the image showed that something other than an airliner struck the towers. Logically, if a person had proof that something other than an airliner struck the towers, that person would reason that the government was involved, and they would naturally fear a visit from the FBI, CIA or other men-in-black. It is also possible that any such photos appearing online would be immediately removed when they are discovered.


[edit on 16-2-2010 by downisreallyup]

reply to post by dereks

It started to topple because one side failed first, due to aircraft damage and the fires. However, after it started falling due to one side falling first, the building beneath it was not strong enough to stop a moving mass od several thousand tonnes, so it then started falling straight down.

Hey, you sound kinda like this guy: Harley Guy

Did y'all go to the same academy, or what?

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


Hey, you sound like truther, did you all skip physics class or what?

The building has no reason to continue to lean after both sides broke from their supports unless you're implying that there was another force pushing it over.

But in order to believe that the building was indeed leaning, you'd have to believe one side failed, bowed inwards and fell before the other side failed. As in bombs did not initiate the collapse, the fire combined with the weight did.

This kind of hurts the conspiracy because:

- The exterior buckled, failed and bowed inwards, controlled demolitions or bombs do not do this
- That the initiation of collapse was not brought on by explosives unless for some reason they decided to blow one side before the other, just to have fun and make it lean, then explode the entire thing, in mid-air.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Whyhi]

reply to post by spikey


I hesitate to go to Alex Jones for anything but in this case he has provided Peter Power's statement from last year I was trying to get hold of :-

www.infowars.net...

You will see that Mr Power says " The test was planned as a table-top walk through for about 6 people in a lecture room." No-one went anywhere near a station.

Read the thread and didn't see these two:1(vice)President Cheney's energy task force meeting...CONSPIRACY? 2.(v)President Cheney just the other day a-sayin'"Blow a hole in the Pentagon[sic]''Was that a Freudian slip admission of guilt?

Originally posted by trueforger
Read the thread and didn't see these two:1(vice)President Cheney's energy task force meeting...CONSPIRACY? 2.(v)President Cheney just the other day a-sayin'"Blow a hole in the Pentagon[sic]''Was that a Freudian slip admission of guilt?

Not sure what's wrong with that Cheneyy statement (cause something DID blow a hole. Now, "WHAT" blew a hole is questionable) but......

FEMA!

FEMA was in Manhattan on Sept 10th. Why were they there the day before?????

Originally posted by TwoPhish

Originally posted by trueforger
Read the thread and didn't see these two:1(vice)President Cheney's energy task force meeting...CONSPIRACY? 2.(v)President Cheney just the other day a-sayin'"Blow a hole in the Pentagon[sic]''Was that a Freudian slip admission of guilt?

Not sure what's wrong with that Cheneyy statement (cause something DID blow a hole. Now, "WHAT" blew a hole is questionable) but......

FEMA!

FEMA was in Manhattan on Sept 10th. Why were they there the day before?????

I think the problem was calling him "President Cheney," but really I think the poster was asking if Cheney's comment was a Freudian slip, saying that a hole was blown in the Pentagon.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by downisreallyup]

The biggest side effect of 9/11 is the fact that everyone will be far more skeptical of government in general. In any future terrorist attacks, whether or not they are carried out by actual terrorists, it won't be easy to convince people that the government wasn't involved.

I don't need much more then the date , obvious American Hollywood flair going on there . Imagine trying to hammer in the 18th of March or something !?

9/11 ... The date is enough , all the other stuff just makes it more obvious.
The date is Soooooooo American....

I'm not even sure how you guys managed to turn this into truther vs whatever.
It's pretty much obvious to the rest of the world, I personally know no-one that actually believes this Munchhausen story.

Yeah , sure ....a pink muslim elephant came flying in across the sea to kill you all because he hates your "freedom" to bomb whoever pisses you off that day.