Judas Iscariot never stood a chance.

Greetings.

Over the years I have pondered on fate and destiny. After recent discussing with a well informed christian friend of mine, He directed me to a verse in the bible. Romans 9: 14-24 and Ephesians 1: 4-5 . For time saving sake I will only quote the verses that stand out. Although I'd suggest reading the entire quote for better understanding.

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Now that got me thinking about all those whom God had doomed. In particular Judas Iscariot. While some may say it was all free will and Judas did it because of greed verses 32-34 of Mark chapter 10 say that Jesus was always ment to be betrayed and as we can see by the quote in Romans, It was always ment to be Judas.

Does this mean that those who are ment to be saved, will be and those who arent will, and always have been, damned from the very beginning?

If so, We have a very cruel God "protecting" us.

I leave the rest up to the forum.

"Free will" is a concept I have always questioned. It is a concept I'd like to believe in, but the longer I live, the less I believe in it. I actually did a whole thread on this some time ago. Concept of "Free Will."

[edit on 3-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Maybe it was Judas , along with Jesus et all , deliberately going about fulfilling these prophecies . Maybe 'god' didn't have a hand in it at all .

Did you know their is a gospel of Judas in existence right now ?

I saw a series of the bibles hidden or banned books, on discovery or National Geographic.
They clearly talked about it. I believed the followers even praise him and that he was chosen by Jesus as the only one capable or worthy to play his part by betraing Jesus.
Not by any means was he punished for this. Considered a hero even.

Well not sure about that anyway.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Yes, I've looked into that as well. Whether or not hes a hero, He sure did suffer a terrible death, Even worse he was damned by God.. Whom made him do it in the first place?

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


What does it make you feel about religion ?

It's obvious somewhere there has to be a mistake, sabbotage or it is just not the truth, what is told. Don't you think ?

How and why would God be so hard on him if he just doing what he is supposed to do ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I'm a theist. So I dont believe in religion. Though I do feel sorry for those following doctrine and yet wont be saved because their fate is already set.

I would Definatley not say God is cruel, Because God Is all of us, But that if you are not saved, then it was because of your choices in life. We all have a choice to be saved, But that choice comes from excepting something that's bigger than you. If you cannot give up doing things for the benifit for yourself and see that there is a natural will of the world, then you will not be saved. Anything you do for the benifit of yourself is a sin. Now we are human so Sin is natural, But to be in the presence of God you must take full responsibility for you're mistakes, and you will be forgiven. You will sin in life, If you can make it through life without sinning then you are not human by nature. But to do things for others, For the benifit of others, then you will be saved, and to be saved isn't to go to heaven. It is to find spiritual Hapiness, which is what heaven is.

Judas of Kerioth is a hard character to write about. The only people who much care about him are Christians, and unsurprisingly, they think he's a bad guy.

Although they can be selective about that. A lot of Christians over time have managed to hold a very constructive attitude about Longinus, the soldier who, according to tradition, stabbed Jesus. Supposedly, Longinus repented, achieved a gruesome martyrdom, and was sainted.

I suppose, then, what is damnable about Judas is not that he grassed on Jesus, but that he didn't repent afterwards. Although Matthew kills Judas off before Jesus (oddly, however, in what obviously is, if it were true, an overt display of repentance), Peter in Acts suggests an unrepentant death, apparently sometime after the Resurrection.

I also wonder if Judas is not the last Christian scapegoat. At least eleven, and possibly all twelve (depending on who the Beloved Disciple in John actually was), of The Twelve were missing in action on Good Friday. That would be the same crew that couldn't stay awake the night before. Clearly, then, loyalty was thin on the ground.

Of those who cut and ran, everybody except Judas repented. Personally, I have been around the track a few times in organizations. Whoever misses a Big Meeting often gets blamed for a lot of things, and ends up being assigned the dirty jobs. I can't help but wonder if something like that happened here, too.

The logic of the story is that Longinus did good, whatever his intention. The logic of the story is also that Judas did good, regardless of his intention. Finally, the logic of the story is that if Judas had sought forgiveness from the risen Jesus, then forgiveness he would have had.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by eight bits]

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


This is one of the fundamental paradoxes of Christianity, the battle between predestination and the idea that our souls are predetermined to go to Heaven or Hell and the idea of free will and choice. For instance what if there is a person who devoutly attempts to believe and serve Jesus but in the end they fall out of faith because they never felt God or redemption the way everyone said they would. Is this person destined to go to Hell and be rejected from God's kingdom, is that why God never answers their call to be cleansed and redeemed? If so than God is a liar and a charlatan, claiming that all you must do to be saved is believe in Jesus when actually there is no real choice to be made.

The idea of the Lambs book of Life put forward in the New Testament further confuses the whole thing because only those with their names in the book inherit eternal life. So no matter how hard you believe in God its all for nothing if your name isn't in the book when roll call is taken at the end of all things.

Some believe it was Judas' destiny to betray Jesus, others that he made a choice and still others that he was hand picked by Jesus. This leads me to something I never quite understood.. why is Judas so hated. Without the betrayal of Jesus there never would have been a crucifixion or resurrection and therefore without Judas there is NO SALVATION. So Judas ends up playing a role far more important than any other disciple in the securing of salvation for humanity. And yet Judas is almost universally reviled even by the non-religious.

All in all Christianity is one of the most inconsistent and confusing belief systems in history.

I do not believe there existed a Jesus or Judas as stated in the Bible. If you believe in the Bible, not only did Judas not have any free will but Jesus also committed suicide.

In the KJV of the new testament, it seems to me that Jesus was doing what he could to intentionally fulfill scripture. I believe that Jesus asked Judas to turn him in inorder to again fulfill scripture.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

Yes, I've looked into that as well. Whether or not hes a hero, He sure did suffer a terrible death, Even worse he was damned by God.. Whom made him do it in the first place?

Who says he was damned by God?

You tell your child to do something he isn't supposed to do, are you going to punish him after he has done it?