Let's look at the Catholic Institution, shall we?

Originally posted by EricD
Here are some examples of where people are called 'father' in the Bible who are not actually biological fathers:

Old Testament

Gen. 45:8
Job 29:16
Is. 22:20-21
2 Kgs 2:212
2 Kgs 6:21

New Testament

Acts 7:2
Romans 9:10

Regarding the forgiveness of sins, please read John 20:19 - 23.

Eric

Jesus is the one who says not to call people father, that comes after the OT, so I don't see how those verses apply. Other translations don't use father in those cases, but other titles(maybe because of this, dunno?). I'd probably let someone like Sigismund or someone who has decent understanding on the translations and such speak before we can say for sure those verses mean "father" as a title.

The 2 you quotes after are of/about Paul and are just plain out wrong and in error.

Paul even goes so far as telling people he has "begotten" them as to why to call him father, which is in direct opposition to Jesus says. No wonder that Paul also thinks he is "waiting for adoption". Paul specifically tells people to call him father.

As for John 20, which is my main reason for this reply.

John 20 in NO WAY represents what the RCC does. The holy spirit is that which teaches people. It brings understanding and wisdom to the people(John 14:26), which is basically the rewards those who find the father early are to receive(Proverbs 8).

It is this understanding that is given by the holy spirit that is needed in order to keep the commandments(Psalm 111:10).

The highest form of atonement has always been to repent for your sins. Which is why Jesus says think not that he has come to end the law, but to fulfill it. That he has come not for the righteous, but to bring sinners to repentance.

As such, the way people are able to forgive sins with the holy spirit is in the same manner Jesus did it. By giving them the understanding needed in order to repent for their sins. When Jesus is asked why he speaks in parables, he basically says in order to give understanding, and speaks of how only some can hear the understanding etc.

With that understanding, the person can change their ways, thus repent for their sins, and by that they are forgiven. Once you fix your mistakes, you are automatically forgiven by the father, because that is all the father even wanted/asked of you. Which is no different than what any parent wants for their child. I certainly do not punish my children for any reason other than to teach them so they can learn the lessons and fix their mistakes. Once they fix their mistakes, the parent automatically forgives them.

This represents yet another of many places where the RCC has replaced things of understanding and taken them over with their own traditions and authority. The RCC is neither of Jesus or the father and is the base of the mystery/anti-Christ religion, the first beast, of which all the other branches of Christianity have been formed(2nd beast).

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by tooo many pills
It just goes to show you that a majority of Catholic followers don't even understand a majority of what they are being told, nor do they have enough individual thought to question what they believe in.

What goes to show that? And how does it show that?

From what are you drawing your conclusions and why do you believe that they have any validity?

Eric

Because nobody with understanding would follow such a thing. You can't pluck those with understanding from the fathers hand. Anymore than I can convince you that 4+2=92. Would you accept replacements for things you knew were not the true thing? If you buy/order Chinese food, and I bring you a pizza instead - wouldn't you know that I didn't bring you Chinese food? Only if you didn't know the difference between the 2 would you ever accept that the Pizza was Chinese take out. As such, if I see you holding a pizza while telling me you ordered Chinese, I can easily see that you do not know the difference or understand what they are.

Matthew 7 is what the RCC needs to focus on. As it is by the fruits of the Catholic Church that I know they are not of god or Jesus. If they were of these things, then their fruits would reflect it. However, their fruits have shown time and time again that they are in fact of the path of death and destruction.

In Matthew 7, Jesus specifically warns of these things. Which is something that drives me crazy about atheists, and with myself when I was an atheist before. Because what most people base their opinion on in terms of Jesus and God is Christianity, and people who are honest are able to see those rotten fruits. This drives people away. Yet, if we look at the bible and these chapters, then we can see that these we see religious people doing are in fact against the bible and what Jesus says. Just as the pharisees were against Jesus and the father back then. These functions still exist today, the pharisees of today are the preachers and "fathers", and the synagogues are just called churches.

You are warned of wolves in sheep's clothing, and thus it is by their fruits that you will know. Do men of god or Jesus wage war against others? Show prejudice against those who sin? Remind me again, is it blessed are the peacemakers, or is it blessed are those who war in the name of god?

The OP quoted Matthew 23. But read the list of things Jesus says of the Pharisees, and show me which ones does not apply to the church.

Pharisees = Father/Preacher/Pastor etc.
Synagogue = Church/a place of worship.

The movement of the Pharisees took over that of Jesus after they killed him. His name was Paul, and is among those who desire sacrifice, rather than knowledge(understanding) of god.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Hint: Hosea 6

oh man, i have a list 3 pages long...... forbidding to marry
changing the laws and times
taking money and giving reciepts for absolution of sin, guaranteed
the 10 commandments....look what they did with theirs, it's different.
more, three pages more, one pope finally apologised for criminal...

there is no reason for the church to act as it is the leader ikn christinity which isnt true for the last few yeasr seeing as how it is losing thousands of followers every year