Is it possible to 'Deny Ignorance' to the point of Ignorance?

G'day ATS,

Do you think that it's possible to take the whole 'deny ignorance' thing too far?

Can you be so hell bent on denying it, that you become it!?

I think that to be a member you must posses an open mind. Open to conspiracy, to the unusual, to the alternative (explanations). So when does wanting these alternative theories to be true start to cloud the analytical and subjective reasoning capabilities of the conspiracy theorist?

Should we begin from the standpoint of believing every alternative theory until proven otherwise, or is it more prudent to acknowledge the accepted mainstream hypothesis before embarking on a tirade of "It's HAARP, Transdimentional Vortices or Demons!"???

Sometimes I feel that we can be 'open' to a fault, to the point where we are actually in danger of damaging our credibility so that nobody takes us seriously.

I hope I haven't offended anybody by these thoughts, and I beleive strongly that all views, to the last one are worthy and valid on ATS, I just sense that at certain times, we ought to start with our feet and minds firmly rooted to common sense before we go off the deep end.

All the best ATS!

Kiwifoot

It's a good question. Once you start to research and open your mind to the 'secrets' of our world, there's certainly a fine line between being well informed or a crazy theorist.

It's a chance I'm always willing to take in order to know the truth.

reply to post by kiwifoot

Do you think that it's possible to take the whole 'deny ignorance' thing too far? Can you be so hell bent on denying it, that you become it!?

You can overdo anything. But in the case of ignorance, if you over-deny it, then all you're really doing is coming in the back door to promote logic.

Don't second guess yourself. There is nothing worse than someone who doubts themselves into idleness.

Originally posted by shasta9600
It's a good question. Once you start to research and open your mind to the 'secrets' of our world, there's certainly a fine line between being well informed or a crazy theorist.

It's a chance I'm always willing to take in order to know the truth.

Yes that is a concern of mine too, I crave the truth, as much as it may hurt.

The problem with Conspiracy is that it is very hard to come by, maybe that's just life in general, thanks for your thoughts!

Originally posted by redoubt

Don't second guess yourself. There is nothing worse than someone who doubts themselves into idleness.

Nice one mate, one of the wisest posts I've seen this year, OK it's only January but still!

Thank you!

Show me someone who says he knows something for certain and I'll show you someone who hasn't looked into the facts enough.



It doesn't matter what the subject is either, because there are unknown variables in every theory and scientific fact known to mankind.

Denying ignorance is opposite of accepting ignorance and ignorance is the lack of knowledge. We are constantly in a state of gaining knowledge and the more we discover, the more there seems to be left unexplored. Each opened door leads to another closed one and the rabbit holes run VERY deep.

So, no, I don't believe we will ever stop searching for answers.

Who shot Kennedy? (hmm... not sure)
Are there aliens on Earth? (well... um...)
Is Obama the Third Antichrist? (maybe, but where's that head wound?)
Does the Illuminati strive for world domination? (I think so, I guess)
Did HAARP cause the Indonesian tsunami/ Haitian earthquake? (let me think on that)

And on and on it goes.

What do I know for sure? Standard answer: nothing, but I'm gonna keep looking.

reply to post by kiwifoot


I couldn't agree more, but don't expect much feedback on this.
Ct is treated by most as an exclusive club, they belong and they believe.Key word believe.
It becomes much like fundamentalism, dogma that can't be questioned ( the MSM is all lies), "alternative" is inherantly better than normal.
As I've posted several times here, it becomes a game to see who can tie absolutly any event into some kind of conspiracy. The truth becomes secondary to being alternative as some kind of value unto itself.
Ignorance is embraced, as long as it's 'alternative".
Check the board, this kind of subject isn't sexy enough, posters here seek mystery and to reinforce their preconcieved ideas, not truth. Introspection isn't very popular here, despite so many people being Indigo/aware/awake non sheeple free thinkers. Tell the truth and you will be scorned as either a "disinfo agent", or as a party pooper.
Just telling it like it is folks!

Originally posted by masqua


Denying ignorance is opposite of accepting ignorance and ignorance is the lack of knowledge.

Quite, I agree. But do you think that on ATS 'Deny Ignorance' has become to mean more than that?

Is it a motto that has taken on more significance, representing us against them, to the point that we loose credibility, and the ability to analyse the world around us sensibly?

Originally posted by kiwifoot
Is it a motto that has taken on more significance, representing us against them, to the point that we loose credibility, and the ability to analyse the world around us sensibly?

When a motto becomes a brand name, which I believe has happened in this case, it loses true meaning.

Denying Ignorance was never an 'us' or 'them' issue, but, when it became the standard motto of the site, it gradually became a 'brand' much like Coca Cola. A brand is just a sign which represents something much bigger. When we equate the Above Network with 'Deny Ignorance' instead of the desire to gain knowledge through the social commentary of important issues, we have lost the true meaning of the motto.

As far as some topics which are brought forward here, seperating the wheat from the literal chaff requires us to use critical thinking. On that, I propose that there will ALWAYS, and in all things, be more chaff than wheat.

Originally posted by masqua
When we equate the Above Network with 'Deny Ignorance' instead of the desire to gain knowledge through the social commentary of important issues, we have lost the true meaning of the motto.

I propose that there will ALWAYS, and in all things, be more chaff than wheat.

Cheers masqua, very well put.

In my eyes it just seems that some misuse 'deny ignorance' as an excuse to believe anything, and not do their home work...

I propose that there will ALWAYS, and in all things, be more chaff than wheat.

My every day actions are based on two traits.

Probability and cost/benefit.

I look at the probability of something being true or happening. If it is reasonable chance, I then compare the cost and benefit. Is it worth even going through such an action?

ATS is not excluded from the closed-minded, and it seems the environment here captures some very bright people along with the opposite.

Originally posted by kiwifoot

Do you think that it's possible to take the whole 'deny ignorance' thing too far?

Can you be so hell bent on denying it, that you become it!?

Absolutely. I don't have the link, but there's another thread going on ATS about a white's only basketball league and people are getting pissy and calling it racist. Well ok, that's fine, let's deny the "ignorance" of "racism" and start calling BET and black only colleges racist as well. People go so far to deny the ignorance (racism) of one group but fail to see it or speak on it from another.
No thread de-railing meant here, it's just my example. I don't have the link but it's on the site.

I'm glad someone made this thread, I've been pondering on this for a while.

What appears to have happened, along with the very noticeable increase in the number of members, is an increase in the number of members who are, lets face it, idiots.
As much as they like to think they're 'denying ignorance' they're simply enforcing their belief as absolute fact, everyone else is wrong.

I don't believe its so much a mental change in long established members, but more from the newcomers who just see ATS as 'cool' or somewhere they can rip people, or to simply spread their own personal gospel.
Anyone who, in many cases simply disagrees (and often provides solid evidence), is accused of being ignorant and 'not open' to the idea of say, the earth being flat, or the Obama birth cert thing, or whatever.

If you see someone regularly using 'deny ignorance' as an excuse for something, just don't post. Ignore them, let the thread die, they don't get their loadspoints ego trip and the whole thing never happens.

Originally posted by masqua
Show me someone who says he knows something for certain and I'll show you someone who hasn't looked into the facts enough.

Hey masqua,

I'd like to see you question Jean Luc Picard.

Edit: Imagine if instead of forcing him to admit there were 'five lights', the Cardassian interrogator made Picard admit that it 'seemed like there was four', and that he just may have not 'looked into the facts enough.'

Poor Picard.




[edit on 21-1-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


And, if I'd crossed my eyes, I'd see six or eight and if I squinted I'd see only a blended bar of light and darkness.

Were I Picard, I would have said I saw 4 bright lights and hundreds of smaller ones arrayed in bars behind. Then, beyond the walls, the million lights of the city and the trillions of stars in space beyond.

Those who only see four lights lack imagination.

Originally posted by masqua

Were I Picard, I would have said I saw 4 bright lights and hundreds of smaller ones arrayed in bars behind. Then, beyond the walls, the million lights of the city and the trillions of stars in space beyond.

Those who only see four lights lack imagination.

Well that might have worked.... But our Cardassian was quite set on having Picard say it was five lights.


In fact, your clever answer would have gotten you tortured again and you might not get to eat the Tespa egg(with live tespa) afterall.

But now that the Cardassian has gotten you to compromise on the reality of the four lights - he knows can further bend you to his will; perhaps get you to say something that would endanger the Federation's treaty with the Cardassian Alliance.

Furthermore, your recorded interrogation could be used a War propaganda to show how malleable the humans are. -Sheesh. Score another point for Cardassia.

Then again, with holographic technology so prevalent, I bet even the Cardassians would be skeptical of state propaganda.


*Perhaps your tactics may have worked; as you purchase time with compromise after compromise, your rescue party would be moving closer and closer until you are eventually saved and the day is won (as at the end of each episode).


I don't know masqua, this is a tough call.

Here is what I think. It is obvious that we must deny ignorance if we do not want to deny knowledge. Sadly, most of the people here find 'conspiracy theories' to be something exciting that they want to be a part of because of the nature of the subject matter. Its.different, and some knowledge of the subjects to the 'layperson' seems privileged in their eyes. Who doesn't want to sound like they know something as out of the ordinary as the HAARP program? Sadly, this is taken too far and the lies and flimsy theories come up, seeking peer approval, simply to satisfy some sort of primal urge to excel and be held in high regard. Deny Ignorance, when taken literallly, is the most important expression, possibly, that there is. It encouraged us to gain knowledge, and to not hold our own egos above the truth.