Deny ignorance and tell the truth, is that even possible? Desirable?

Originally posted by PMtrader
reply to post by sleeper

 

I am trying to use some select words to convey the idea that you are preaching - in large part - to the choir in our brief correspondence.

I just noticed that John Lear used his real name here at ATS... I had supposed that was taboo or I would have done the same. Even still, everyone loves a good mystery so we can go with it. Who knows, maybe there is some order to the chaos.

All the best,

PM

I know I'm not telling you something you don't already know and a lot of people also know, I babble. lol

I u2u you but I guess you don't have the post numbers to receive u2u, seems like an archaic system if that is the case.

reply to post by sleeper


Hi Sleeper,

Thanks for the note. I read your u2u and tried to respond but received a note that I needed 20 posts before the service was available... the latter exercise in futility being good for a chuckle. Send me an email note - I'm easy to find, and feel free to maintain anonymity for a time.

In the interests of adding content for the outside world commensurate with the spirit of this forum:

The corollary between mathematics (in particular, the nature of the axiomatic system) and how we form our beliefs is significant. As such, examining those axioms that lie at the root of our beliefs is beneficial. Two things in this regard are perhaps noteworthy:
1) Oft times, one may form solid conclusions in their primary field of endeavor based on rigorous logic and reasonable axioms. However, this same person may unknowingly form an opinion outside of their area based on an axiom so trite as, "Oprah said so" or "I heard it on the news". A degree of introspection as to why we believe certain things thus seems meritorious.
2) Axioms in and of themselves are not necessarily truth. In particular, axioms are the foundation on which useful results may be built (e.g., Euclidean vs non-Euclidean geometry).
3) An interesting axiom is: Do we inherently have the ability to hear the ring of truth. Like so many things, I would conjecture that the answer is both yes and no. i.e., freed from biases, the answer may be yes, but unknowingly encumbered by biases may cloud any such innate ability.

All the best,

PM

Originally posted by PMtrader
reply to post by sleeper

 

Hi Sleeper,

In the interests of adding content for the outside world commensurate with the spirit of this forum:

The corollary between mathematics (in particular, the nature of the axiomatic system) and how we form our beliefs is significant. As such, examining those axioms that lie at the root of our beliefs is beneficial. Two things in this regard are perhaps noteworthy:
1) Oft times, one may form solid conclusions in their primary field of endeavor based on rigorous logic and reasonable axioms. However, this same person may unknowingly form an opinion outside of their area based on an axiom so trite as, "Oprah said so" or "I heard it on the news". A degree of introspection as to why we believe certain things thus seems meritorious.

Hi PM,

If Oprah said it then you can bank on it, we are the hyper media generation after all, and expect that celebrities vet thoroughly their sources for us.

2) Axioms in and of themselves are not necessarily truth. In particular, axioms are the foundation on which useful results may be built (e.g., Euclidean vs non-Euclidean geometry).

I agree, the sciences do need "some" footing otherwise what would we do with all the technology the gods rain down on us.

3) An interesting axiom is: Do we inherently have the ability to hear the ring of truth. Like so many things, I would conjecture that the answer is both yes and no. i.e., freed from biases, the answer may be yes, but unknowingly encumbered by biases may cloud any such innate ability.

All the best,

PM

That's why we humans are fooled some of the time and led astray all of the time, concerning politics, religions beliefs, and larger than life celebrities with hidden agendas.

Prattling on

Originally posted by sleeper
If you want to sell books, newspapers, movies and television shows, or rise up the political ladder, succeed in industry, grow religious institutions, teach at universities, pilot aircraft, become a scientist, etc, then you can’t tell the truth. That’s presuming you know, or more precisely, “think” you know the truth to begin with.

The truth would bring all that we value in our lives to an abrupt end. So why do we pretend to want to know the truth?

1. Not everybody knows that they don't know the truth, (ie. your pointing out "they think" they know the truth.

2. Not everybody values those same things that would cause devestations to some people's "beliefs" because some of us know at least a good chunk of the big picture or what may be going on, on this planet, and are okay with it. To some it makes sense...to others it's shocking and they think the truth is nonsense because pulling them out of what they are comfortable growing up with as a "view" would make them feel "out of it".

3. It doesn't matter anyway, since this planet is not ready for the abrupt change knowing the truth would bring, at this stage they need the chase of teaching and then thinking them learning the next step is all of their doing.

Lastly, referring to my second statement...they want to know the truth because they are guessing it's not all that devestating.

reply to post by yeahright


I didn't ask for a headache, but I got one

[edit on 25-2-2010 by EctoCooler HiC]

Hey Sleeper!

Stop rolling your eyes.

Truth I've never seen it, never touched it, never smelled it. As far as I know it's just a word I was taught, like the word GOD.

I challenge anyone on this board to tell me the difference, beyond spelling and dictionary meanings, of the word truth and the word God.

Most of everything in this life has nothing to do with the idiotic meanings we impose on them. We perpetually laugh at the childish mindset the people of our past had while believing that there will be none to laugh at ours because we know the truth.

The way I see it there is no such stinken thing as truth. I mean really, what is truth but just another carrot dangled in front of our eyes to get us plowing the field like a mule. Another illusion.

Truth, the other other white meat. Got Truth? Where's your truth mustache? Uncle truth wants you! Truth it's whats for dinner. I'm gonna grow up to be a Truth some day mommy! When you wish upon a truth. What makes a king out of a slave?....TRUTH! What makes a flag on a mast wave?...TRUTH What makes the hottentot so Hot?..TRUTH! What puts the Ape in apricot?...TRUTH! What do they got that I ain't got?..TRUTH! Then it's all a bunch of BULL@#$!%!!!!

Moral of the story is if someone don't know the truth, then they don't know the truth. I don't know the truth and that's the truth. The world will forever keep spinning.

Aside from the word truth there are things we do know and things we do not know. People would be suprised at just how much they do know yet their denial, shame lack of corauge will make them cloak what they know full well with lies. Lies branded as truth by the indoctrinating machine we are born into.

I agree with you saying that this world is the red pill side of the Matrix Sleeper. Because out of all the lies the people of this planet could choose from we chose this to be our current condition on earth. Truth....

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Izarith]

Originally posted by Izarith
Hey Sleeper!

Stop rolling your eyes.

Truth I've never seen it, never touched it, never smelled it. As far as I know it's just a word I was taught, like the word GOD.

I challenge anyone on this board to tell me the difference, beyond spelling and dictionary meanings, of the word truth and the word God.

Most of everything in this life has nothing to do with the idiotic meanings we impose on them. We perpetually laugh at the childish mindset the people of our past had while believing that there will be none to laugh at ours because we know the truth.

The way I see it there is no such stinken thing as truth. I mean really, what is truth but just another carrot dangled in front of our eyes to get us plowing the field like a mule. Another illusion.

Truth, the other other white meat. Got Truth? Where's your truth mustache? Uncle truth wants you! Truth it's whats for dinner. I'm gonna grow up to be a Truth some day mommy! When you wish upon a truth. What makes a king out of a slave?....TRUTH! What makes a flag on a mast wave?...TRUTH What makes the hottentot so Hot?..TRUTH! What puts the Ape in apricot?...TRUTH! What do they got that I ain't got?..TRUTH! Then it's all a bunch of BULL@#$!%!!!!

Moral of the story is if someone don't know the truth, then they don't know the truth. I don't know the truth and that's the truth. The world will forever keep spinning.

Aside from the word truth there are things we do know and things we do not know. People would be suprised at just how much they do know yet their denial, shame lack of corauge will make them cloak what they know full well with lies. Lies branded as truth by the indoctrinating machine we are born into.

I agree with you saying that this world is the red pill side of the Matrix Sleeper. Because out of all the lies the people of this planet could choose from we chose this to be our current condition on earth. Truth....

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Izarith]

Hi Izarith,

I'm not rolling my eyes, it only seems that way in the red pill zone, where we tend to deny truth by believing that we live it. Good post there

I love my family with all my heart, and that is the truth.

Everything else is conjecture.

reply to post by sleeper


I always called that being bought off. Kind of reminds me of the guy in the movie the Matrix who was munching down his steak, he knew was an illusion, and selling out his fellow humanity for the ability to do so. When it comes to poggression time he's going to be feeling a lot of shame and taking a lot longer at getting home back to Family.
Very interesting thread.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by yeahright


There are truths. Love is not hate. Hurting does not help. That souls progress and can wake up alot more and remember more of who they are and recognize others implies a solid foundation in this, though we can also fall into our dreams. There is a truth, we are progressing when we find the love within us and discover our inner wellsprings and answers, that love is lending a helping hand. What progresses souls, beings is not the same thing as what progresses us materialistically in this world. They're opposites.

Originally posted by sleeper
If you want to sell books, newspapers, movies and television shows, or rise up the political ladder, succeed in industry, grow religious institutions, teach at universities, pilot aircraft, become a scientist, etc, then you can’t tell the truth. That’s presuming you know, or more precisely, “think” you know the truth to begin with.

The truth would bring all that we value in our lives to an abrupt end. So why do we pretend to want to know the truth?

They're just selling out. Its a cop out and a rationalization about the versions of truth. Coffee's always on and any of them is welcome to have some deep discussions on goodness and not harming with me. I really hope some of them wake up and smell the coffee in life and set to creating a good world together.