World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown

They were just discussing this on msm, UK Sky News

The presenters seemed to be positivley glowing about the story and talking about the AGW agenda coming apart at the seams.

Something else I was just pondering.

Why do they feel the need to lie about things like this to the public when they know damned well the public has its ways of getting information themselves? I think they knew that this was going to be uncovered, Im just waiting for the second round of debunking this from the MSM.
There will be a new excuse to cover up this fact.
I dont know what excuse they can make for this, but guaranteed, they will find a way.
But thats just the conspiracy theorist in me talking.

reply to post by bigyin


If it is indeed true that GW is untrue, then I think that is a thing we should at a minimum be grateful for.

The Vostok ice core data says it all. This chart was compiled directly from composite data.

Originally posted by loam
...............
I suppose one positive thing on this particular subject is that it isn't true after all. It's nice to know that the impending doom is not so impending.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I am not talking about "AGW", but the fact that the Earth's magnetic field is weaker now, and fluctuating wildly more than it has for tens of thousands of years.

The Sun's activity is at a crawl right now, but i showed an article where scientists state that they just found out that the solar wind is still bringing in a lot of energy into the Earth's atmosphere from some other source probably outside the Solar System, and this has been found to cause "warming" in the atmosphere.

It has NOTHING to do with mankind. The problem is that no one knows what will happen next. We could go into another little Ice Age, we could go into a deeper ice age, or the Sun's activity could increase like Michu Kaku says, and which Ed Dames has been stating for years.

We also know that the entire Solar System is now going through a new region of space, which is a major cause of Climate Change, and this was known at least even back in 1978. I have posted that research several times.

The truth is that we are not out of the woods, but giving money to the rich, Socialist elites is not going to solve anything, or save us, nor much less save the panet...

For all we know the rich elites are getting all this money to build some method of escape for them for what could very well happen. For all we know they could be building ships to get out of the planet, or they could even be building, or expanding some underground cities for the rich elites to be safe for whatever catastrophe could occur with everything that i happening.

This could be the reason why they are robbing us blind in the U.S., and to other people in the world, they are doing it in plain sight, and they are not even afraid to admit it?

Some of you might remember an audio interview I have given also for some years in these website which Art Bell did with Father Malachi Martin back in 1997.

Father Malachi Martin was not just a regular Jesuit. He had big connections in the Vatican, and was a good friend to the pope, and the last interview that he made with Art Bell before he mysteriously died falling off a flight of stairs which supposedly caused a heart attack, was that "the people in the higher ranks of the Vaticans knew of something which was approaching us that would be of great import for mankind."

You can make some reasearch about this man, he would have never made this up, and he had the connections to know of something big was going to occur in the future.

This might sound unrelated, but I don't think it is.

The Vatican spent millions to own Mt. Graham International Observatory, and this man who died strangely two years after this last interview had the galls to at least hint to the world part of what he knew of why this observatory was owned mainly by the Vatican.

For all we know his death could have been natural, but to me it is a bit too strange. He fell off a flight of stairs, and this supposedly caused a heart attack...

Let me find the link to the audio interview so you can make your minds. I will post it when I find it.

Originally posted by Eight
Global warming alarmist all have a fundamental problem, their wrong, because their conclusions are based on junk science. I honestly don't know why people keep listening to this scientist when it is a know fact that scientists fabricate data when their data fails to prove the earth is warming.

In my opinion these scientist are nothing more than scam artists because they share data with each to see how they can massage the data to meet a preconceived conclusion, then hide it from "real" scientists that are skeptical.

Words fail me. How you have managed to twist a screw up by a handful of political and NOT scientific individuals as "proof" of fabrication by tens of thousands of dedicated scientific professionals is quite simply obscene.

Shame on you all.

This world is screwed because of narrow minded dishonest people like you.

PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. SOME ADMIT TO THEM (as the UN/IPCC clearly is doing so otherwise you would not know about it DUH let me repeat for the skeptics with an IQ < 10 DUH DUH DUH).

Originally posted by Oaktree
This IPCC panel is also the panel that shares the Nobel Peace Prize with Al Gore.
The Nobel was awarded in 2007 to the IPCC and Al Gore, for this very report!!!

Absolutely amazing!

And Obama was presented a Nobel for his first 12 days in office. Getting a Nobel is as respected nowadays as getting a cool prize from a box of Cracker Jacks.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


You may be onto something there! The maunder minimum coincided with the little ice age perfectly. No one can explain the connection though. There are lots of things we just do not understand, and although it’s clear that C02 is a green house gas no one has considered that there are organisms that will likely make use of the extra C02.

That said, the save the whales attitude is the worst possible mindset we can have. Problems like AWG should be met with the technology to scrub it from the atmosphere. Consider that 98% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct due to some type of environmental calamity. If humankind is to endure we must find the technology to completely manage our environment and all of the Earth should be used for the single purpose of supporting human life. We are headed for exstiction if we remain dependent upon this 100% doomed environment.

Humankind should strive for a population in excess of a trillion. The technology required is crucial for our survival. Envision a planet wide city where ever inch of the Earth is put to use for the single purpose of supporting human life. Envision a completely managed atmosphere and weather systems etc. This is also our only clear path to the stars, which we all know is our only true hope of long term survival.

If the human species is to endure we must abandon this save the whales attitude, and stop placing other species needs above those of our own. We are in it for our species. It is not a fairy princesses day dream!

It is not by the principles of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world, but solely by means of the most brutal struggle.

All of humanity will be traded for species which are doomed to extinction anyhow, and most all will praise this move. It will not be our technology that is our downfall but rather our collective stupidity.


[edit on 17-1-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
.................
Problems like AWG should be met with the technology to scrub it from the atmosphere. Consider that 98% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct due to some type of environmental calamity. If humankind is to endure we must find the technology to completely manage our environment and all of the Earth should be used for the single purpose of supporting human life. We are headed for exstiction if we remain dependent upon this 100% doomed environment.
.................

But what you are suggesting is exactly what the elites want to do. To "try" to control nature.... But the thing is NO ONE can control nature. it is just an excuse to take more control over us, and for the rich elites to make more money...

Atmospheric CO2 has been proven to be beneficial not just to some small micro-oganism, but the entire green biomass of Earth benefits with much higher levels of atmospheric CO2 than exist now....

Scrubbing the atmosphere of what you call excess of CO2 will be detrimental to all life on Earth, including mankind.... in fact the Earth is deprived of atmospheric CO2 which is in great part the cause of why there isn't enough food, and water for humans and animals.

If there were much higher levels of atmospheic CO2 we would have more harvests, and more water for human and animal consunption, since higher levels of atmospheric CO2 make plants, trees, etc make better use of water, which means they need less water.

The ghg effect of CO2 is neglegible... It has NEVER been poven to cause the warming claimed by the AGW proponents.

But no matter what evidence comes forth that AGW is nothing more than a scam we can see that at least some people like you keep claiming 'we must scrub the atmosphere from any excess of CO2"....

Mankind CANNOT control nature... We never had, and will never be able to simply because there are forces/factors that affect the climate and environment of Earth that we have no control over...

What is it with people like you wanting to control nature?... havent you leaarned yet that you can't control it?... Releasing some dust into clouds to make it rain, or snow is not controlling the climate, it can turn back on you in an instant, and you won't be able to control it.... it's like puting a drunk man to drive a car at 60 mph...it will cause a disaster...

Anyway, here is the audio that i was talking about.

www.cyberspaceorbit.com...

Click on first link to listen to it. You might need to download RealPlayer to listen to it.

BTW, environmental calamities have been occurring for billions of years on Earth without any help from mankind...

There have been spieces of animal;s which have become extinct and new ones arise which is a cycle that NO ONE can break....

Yes, mankind has done clear cutting of forests, but it is also true that since the 1800s there are more trees, and in general more green biomass in the entire planet thanks to the small increase in atmospheric CO2.... if it were to increase more we would be having larger, and bigger forests, and more harvests for food as well as more water for mankind and the nimal kingdom.

Nature is in CONSTANT evolution...some old species die and new ones emerge. It is a natural cycle of life and death on this planet. Some species aremore resilient thana others but that's what evolution is all about... To make more resilient spieces of animals, and insects.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Scrubbing the atmosphere of what you call excess of CO2 will be detrimental to all life on Earth, including mankind.... in fact the Earth is deprived of atmospheric CO2 which is in great part the cause of why there isn't enough food, and water for humans and animals.

I think the oceans should be farmed on a scale that would require the management of C02 levels in our atmosphere.


1. Fertilize the oceans and create plankton blooms on unheard of scales.
2. Kill off the predators that feed on the creatures that feed on the plankton. Also dispose of any undesirable species.
3. Harvest both the plankton and the increased bio mass for conversion into oil.

Using a method like this we could also feed the entire population of earth easily. We have the technology to put this type of thing into practice, and the knowledge we would gain would allow for better understanding and management of our biosphere.

For you tree huggers out there. I agree that we should not allow species to go extinct, but we can and should permit extinction in the wild. We should always maintain a collection of all species just in case we need them in the future.

It has been calculated that the Earth at present can only sustain a human population of 9-15 billion. With this knowledge you will see efforts to depopulate the earth maybe even within your lifetime. Let’s hope we are not victims of this flawed mindset.

Knowing that this environment is doomed with or without us. Which is better? Controlling the population, and ensuring the environment remains relatively the same, or developing the technology to manage the environment thus enabling Earth to support human populations well into the trillions.



[edit on 17-1-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by malcr


Exactly who has admitted to what? They are all pointing their fingers at someone else saying "it wasnt me, he did it!"

Its not the fact that someone has made a small error here, its the fact that the IPCC report is happy to rely on "grey" papers and unpublished findings while at the same time rejecting peer reviewed literature and juggling deadlines to avoid certain papers affecting their conclusions. They are using the reports and findings that they deem suitable, rather than the most rigorous conclusions.

They've been saying one thing while doing another, this is merely the highest-profile of the incidents. That the IPCC can claim to be producing scientific reports is a farce.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by zvezdar]

seriously guys no amount of exposing the truth is going to do anything. You could have all the scientists in the world march on DC and TPTB would still spin the story in their favor. YOU CANT DEFEAT A SERIAL LIAR WITH LOGIC. No matter how much proof you show the people that the government is lying the people wont believe you and the government will never admit fault. Still keep up the good work there are a few on the fence you might manage to wake up but i wouldnt hold my breath.

Excellent - Just been looking on BBC news and Sky News and can find nothing on their front pages. I know it was on Sky first thing this morning but nothing there now - it seems to have got buried!

More research is carried out by members here at ATS in a much more professional and credible way than their so called huge scientific knowledge!

Shameful.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
All anyone has to do is look at the graph of the big picture-say about 65million years,to see that we are being fed a royal crock of crap on a daily basis.

Wow, so the humans alive 65million years ago were right and the ones today were... wait, slight problem.

Whatever, really... what is said about 65millions years ago is no different to what is said about 200 years in the future - and to claim otherwise is to ignore the fact WE are just incapable of determining these things. We assume. That is all.

But in this I find pure irony. A number of names here so adamant that without 100% proof from certified professionals that it cannot be true, are also there in the 9/11 threads dismissing such claims and relying on nothing more than conjecture.

What a sea-saw.

That does it for me-not that I am saying we should all carry on burning the earths resources,and polluting the oceans.All I am saying is the reasons and evidence we have been repeatedly presented with are a big pile of steaming BS.
What was it Himmler/Goering said about how easy it is to make the masses believe a lie just by repeating it often enough?

End of the day one thing MUST be clear. We are not acting in a manner that ensures a safe future. Forget the other twaddle - that alone should make us stop and think. And NO I don't agree with government taxes or such actions.

Just that in the face of it all, so many people are throwing their hands up and ignorantly yelling "We arent hurting it, I will burn books for all I care!!!" - akin to the stupidity surrounding anyone who even mentions such things as the meat industry.

Humans are not a fluid thinking set - most of humanity gets caught in the offshoots the river of life takes us.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

But in this I find pure irony. A number of names here so adamant that without 100% proof from certified professionals that it cannot be true

That does it for me-not that I am saying we should all carry on burning the earths resources,and polluting the oceans.All I am saying is the reasons and evidence we have been repeatedly presented with are a big pile of steaming BS.
What was it Himmler/Goering said about how easy it is to make the masses believe a lie just by repeating it often enough?

End of the day one thing MUST be clear. We are not acting in a manner that ensures a safe future. Forget the other twaddle - that alone should make us stop and think. And NO I don't agree with government taxes or such actions.

Just that in the face of it all, so many people are throwing their hands up and ignorantly yelling "We arent hurting it, I will burn books for all I care!!!" - akin to the stupidity surrounding anyone who even mentions such things as the meat industry.

Humans are not a fluid thinking set - most of humanity gets caught in the offshoots the river of life takes us.

The outcome (man-made global warming), that we have been repeatedly beat over the head with, derives from this underlying "proof", as given us by the IPCC. Do you not see, when their "proof" is found to be contrived, even false, how logic demands that people deny the outcome as well?

This twaddle, as you put it, is the basis for global governance on all environmental issues - and environmentalists from all camps, from all over the world were happy to use it to further their individual goals. That is not insignificant - and this is also the reason why when the IPCC basis was found to be false, or lied about, the other camps were affected as well. Trust has been broken and people don't forget that easily.

I hope I don't come across as not caring about the environment, because I do. I think that we must all conserve the natural resources we have been given. However, in lining up behind a group that was more than happy to lie to us, the other environmentalist groups who do have a firm basis, have endangered their cause as well.



[edit on 18/1/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

Wow, so the humans alive 65million years ago were right and the ones today were... wait, slight problem.

Erm,
I never said there were humans that long ago-what I meant was that anyone who looks at the "bigger picture" I.E. a longer timline of the earths temperature fluxuations,say over a period of 65 million years,drawn from such resources as ice core measurments,will find that what they tell us today (that the planet is getting hotter and hotter) is complete rubbish-thats not my opinion-its a fact.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
End of the day one thing MUST be clear. We are not acting in a manner that ensures a safe future. Forget the other twaddle - that alone should make us stop and think. And NO I don't agree with government taxes or such actions.

I agree with you there.



[edit on 18/1/2010 by Silcone Synapse]

It pays to lie.

Pachauri: there's money in them glaciers
eureferendum.blogspot.com...

Syed Hasnain (pictured), the scientist at the centre of the growing controversy over melting Himalayan glaciers (not), is now working for Dr R K Pachauri's TERI as head of the institute glaciology team, funded by a generous grant from a US charity, researching the effects of the retreat. Highlighted in The Sunday Times yesterday, Dr Hasnain was the scientist responsible for claiming that the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035. This was picked up by the New Scientist and then by a WWF report, and subsequently published as a definitive claim in the IPCC's 2007 fourth assessment report, masterminded by Dr R K Pachauri. But, while Dr Hasnain, who was then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi, has admitted that the New Scientist report was based on "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research, he is now a direct beneficiary of that speculation.

In November 2008, they were awarded a $500.000 grant for "research, analysis and training on water-related security and humanitarian challenges to South Asia posed by melting Himalaya glaciers." This helped Dr Pachauri set up the TERI Glaciology team, putting at its head now professor Syed Iqbal Hasnain.

The research fund is also to be topped up from the $108,000 proceeds of the Nehru Prize awarded to Grímsson this month.

Meanwhile, Dr Pachauri, head of the parent research institute, TERI, and a "full-time salaried employee", is seeking to disown his own 2007 report. Despite having dismissed criticism of it by the Indian government as "voodoo science", he told an Indian news agency today that he washed his hands of the controversy saying he has "absolutely no responsibility". Still, with $500,000 in the bank, and EU money flowing into the coffers, the report has served its purpose and he can afford now to walk away from it.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
What is said about 65millions years ago is no different to what is said about 200 years in the future - and to claim otherwise is to ignore the fact WE are just incapable of determining these things. We assume. That is all.

The big difference is that past temperatures can be ascertained by ice core samples. These may not be perfect, but there is a wide scientific consensus that they are a solid means of determining things like temperature & Co2 levels. In fact, I've never heard anyone disputing the validity of using ice core samples.

Future projections are based on computer models & are hugely problematic because the systems are enormously complex & we just don't know all the factors & variables.
The inaccuracies of the 5 day weather forecasts is an indication of just how hard it is to accurately simulate these huge systems

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
End of the day one thing MUST be clear. We are not acting in a manner that ensures a safe future. Forget the other twaddle - that alone should make us stop and think. And NO I don't agree with government taxes or such actions.

I agree with you. Stop & think being the key words here. We can't just run around flailing our arms screaming: "OMG OMG! Teh polar bears! We're all gonna die!"

We need to make good choices & use our resources wisely.

I agree that we need to rethink our society & stop destroying our habitat.
But I don't think this was what Al Gore or Cop 15 was really about...

Originally posted by malcr
Words fail me. How you have managed to twist a screw up by a handful of political and NOT scientific individuals as "proof" of fabrication by tens of thousands of dedicated scientific professionals is quite simply obscene.

Shame on you all.
.........

Actually the shame should be on you...

We have the leaked emails which show what the main proponets of the AGW SCAM have been doing.... Within a week we also found out that these same people deleted all the raw data for most of the last 150 years of data on global temperatures....and the claim was that "they needed more space and that was why it was deleted"...

We have found out that people like Hansen post incorrect data without checking it, and he has been caught time and again doing this.. Yet it doesn't stop him from keep claiming that "the sky is falling because of mankind"....

We have tons of data, research and scientists who disagree with the AGW religion...

Even knowing all of this people like you keep "believing' in AGW....this in itself shows that AGW is nothing more than a RELIGION, and the people who keep being proponents of AGW are nothing more than religious fanatics...

BTW, it has also been proven as a fact that there are NOT "tens of thousands of scientists who support AGW"... Again another lie which has not even a shred of truth...

Shame on you...


[edit on 18-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

I admit I didn't read the whle 4AR in detail. I was totally unaware if this suggestion until the error was pointed out last year.

I'm curious as to why no-one else noticed the error given that, based on current known glacial retreat rates, the suggestion of an 80% retreat in 30 years was obviously impossible.



One alost wonders if it was a deliberate error put in to see if anyone actually read the report ..........