Why defuse bombs - BLOW THEM UP !

reply to post by nobodysavedme


You really have no idea about the fundamental role of the EOD teams or how the task of high threat EOD works, do you?

The collection of forensic evidence is important as it allows the weapons intelligence sections to piece together methods being used by bomb-makers which allows for more effective location and disposal of ordinance. It allows them to collect evidence regarding specific bomb makers for prosecution. It allows them to see where components are being sourced. It lets them see what types of anti-handling devices are being used. It shows the level of skill or lack thereof of the maker... The list is endless.

As for just shooting the bomb, this only works regularly on TV. Modern explosive devices don't just seperate or disrupt if shot. Some do, but most are buried/hidden, or are complicated circuits that are not affected by this type of disruption.

The philosophy of EOD teams is to protect life, to protect property, to preserve and collect forensic evidence without compromising personal safety and to return the situation to normal as soon as possible. Just shooting or detonating a device in place completely negates most if not all of the above.

It would be all too easy to drop some ordinance on these devices from a safe distance, but that would destroy local peoples lives. Hence High Threat EOD operators are some of the bravest and most professional people alive, risking everything to protect the lives and property of complete strangers.

Have some respect.

Originally posted by PaddyInf
reply to post by nobodysavedme

 

You really have no idea about the fundamental role of the EOD teams or how the task of high threat EOD works, do you?

The collection of forensic evidence is important as it allows the weapons intelligence sections to piece together methods being used by bomb-makers which allows for more effective location and disposal of ordinance. It allows them to collect evidence regarding specific bomb makers for prosecution. It allows them to see where components are being sourced. It lets them see what types of anti-handling devices are being used. It shows the level of skill or lack thereof of the maker... The list is endless.

As for just shooting the bomb, this only works regularly on TV. Modern explosive devices don't just seperate or disrupt if shot. Some do, but most are buried/hidden, or are complicated circuits that are not affected by this type of disruption.

The philosophy of EOD teams is to protect life, to protect property, to preserve and collect forensic evidence without compromising personal safety and to return the situation to normal as soon as possible. Just shooting or detonating a device in place completely negates most if not all of the above.

It would be all too easy to drop some ordinance on these devices from a safe distance, but that would destroy local peoples lives. Hence High Threat EOD operators are some of the bravest and most professional people alive, risking everything to protect the lives and property of complete strangers.

Have some respect.

it is just random components thrown together.no one is going to be found or prosecuted.it is total choas there.

Very little evidence can be obtained from most IEDs. They are mostly made from everyday materials that just about anyone could have or obtain

i have respect for a bomb defuser when there is a need.

afganistan is a pile of rubble.everything is being destroyed by the locals.

every building riddled with bullets.

we are not taking about modern suburbia in usa.

bomb defusers should not risk their lives.

your statement that bombs not exploding. when shot is nonsense.

a shot will trigger it of from the shockwave,vibration,noise,pressure...ok?


just shoot the bomb.


[edit on 6-8-2010 by nobodysavedme]

I spent over 2 years on the roads in Iraq. I rarely, if ever, saw EOD disarm an IED. Always a controlled blast.

The early days sucked. When EOD was sparse and time was an issue. You couldn't just leave an IED sitting around for someone else. You couldn't just shoot it, either, because it can become unstable and not detonate at all. Leaving a potentially fatal surprise for someone.

One time, we came upon a suspected IED on an open highway. One of our guys just tossed a grenade on it as they drove past in their humvee, which wasn't even armored at the time. It didn't work, either. Because it was a bundle of vegetables and other objects that wasn't a bomb in the first place.

---
Anyway, some people shouldn't talk about things they know nothing about. Especially if they're going to be so unpleasant, and viciously callous and rude.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by SyphonX]

reply to post by beckybecky


Thats only good when the bomber has the bomb.
That was a defense touted by Tesla to explode the enemies
munitions before they come after us.
I think the Illuminati had something to do with that plan going
asunder.
Like before WWI even.
Tesla might have saved the Czar of Russia or was that before his time
A stealthy airship that sends out a wave of weapons ignition still
in the hands of the enemy.
One way to stop a war.
Sweep the mountains of Afghanistan with the Tesla wave and watch
the fireworks.
I forgot, no one told us about the Tesla wave.

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
it is just random components thrown together.no one is going to be found or prosecuted.it is total choas there.

Wrong. There are plenty of arrests made from these finds.

Very little evidence can be obtained from most IEDs. They are mostly made from everyday materials that just about anyone could have or obtain

Most IEDs are actually standard unexploded ordinance with new initiation devices fitted. The circuits are often made from everyday materials, yes. However it is becoming more and more apparant that there are components being sourced from overseas or from other middle east countries. There are occasions when specialist materials are found in devices that can only be obtained through certain methods. This again demonstrates a chain of evidence.

afganistan is a pile of rubble.everything is being destroyed by the locals.

every building riddled with bullets.

Only the ones that make it onto TV. Have you ever actuallly been there?

Thought not.

we are not taking about modern suburbia in usa.

bomb defusers should not risk their lives.

This is the point. You only see things from a western perspective. If a bomb takes out your house in the US you will probably be able to claim its' value back from either the insurance company or from the local government. You will be able to have a hotel room until the thing is sorted. you will be able to jump inyour car to stay with friends etc.

If a bomb goes off in Afghanistan it will destroy everything the person owns, which isn't much. They are out on the street with nothing. There is no insurance. Their entire lives are destroyed.

It's very easy to look at these places on TV and write them off as not being worth the bother. But when you sit back and think about it, these people have very little so everything they do have has added value.

If it was a bomb in an urban area in the US you would immediately expect a bomb disposal team to be straight in there to sort it out just in case the windows of your three bedroom semi got smashed.

Complete double standards.

That is why they risk their lives.

your statement that bombs not exploding. when shot is nonsense.

a shot will trigger it of from the shockwave,vibration,noise,pressure...ok?

No it won't. When EOD do actually shoot a bomb it isn't to trigger the device. It is to seperate(disrupt) the firing circuit. Bullets are not very efficient at detonating explosives.

Modern explosives are very stable. The only way to detonate them is with another explosive. This is how a detonator works. It is filled with a less stable explosive that deflagerates, creating an explosive wave that brings the main charge to a critical burning point, detonating it.

As most IEDs are made using military ordinance or military grade explosives, they are specifically designed to withstand excessive 'shock, pressure, noise and vibration' ...OK?

This is a subject that I have a more than average experience of from a military perspective. I will not go any further on an open web site into explosive theory. However, try learning something about a subject before you start insulting some very brave men.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by PaddyInf]

reply to post by PaddyInf


i disagree totally with you.these people have "so little" you say.well if they have so little why risk a bomb defusers life for "so little".

they don't care about each other.why should we?

whats in it for us?


they all hate us anyway."death to america" is the official chant from timbukto to tehran to bangkok,from their radios,tv, newapapers , governments.

why should we get entangled?

please answer.

your assertion bombs can't be triggered by being fired at is nonsense.
why then do these devices explode when a man goes near them or steps on them?

answer that then.

going near them generates pressure,vibration,noise...the same things as a bullet.

is it beyond the wit of these bomb defusers to lob a couple of grenades or shock grenades near the bomb?


the best thing to do is let these people sort it out themselves.let them fight.

eventually they will run out of aggresive people and peace will automatically decend.

my uncle ted says these people are not like us.they don't have the same values and ideals as us americans.they don't believe in democracy,freedom and liberty which are the cornerstones of western civilisation.

we should focus on keeping them away from our countries using all means.

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
they all hate us anyway."death to america" is the official chant from timbukto to tehran to bangkok,from their radios,tv, newapapers , governments.

Bangkok and Timbuktu? Do you even know where these places are?

I certainly don't recall in recent memory any marches or the like in Thailand or Mali that were anti-American, why would they? Please, point this out to me.

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
your assertion bombs can't be triggered by being fired at is nonsense.
why then do these devices explode when a man goes near them or steps on them?

Because most, it would seem, are in fact detonated remotely. They seem to lay traps to lure in NATO troops and when they are in place, hidden devices will explode. This tactic is usually accompanied by small arms fire and a general ambush. These are the Taliban tactics.

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
my uncle ted says these people are not like us.they don't have the same values and ideals as us americans.they don't believe in democracy,freedom and liberty which are the cornerstones of western civilisation.

we should focus on keeping them away from our countries using all means.

Oh, did he? That settles it then. Uncle Ted said so, Paddy. End of discussion!

So, nobodysavedme, am I to assume you don't actually have any opinions of your own, you base your ramblings off what other people say and believe them totally?

Oh deary me.... What are you, 12?

[edit on 8/8/10 by stumason]

Originally posted by nobodysavedme

i disagree totally with you.these people have "so little" you say.well if they have so little why risk a bomb defusers life for "so little".

they don't care about each other.why should we?

whats in it for us?

Because what appears as so little to us is all of their worldly possessions and livelyhood. We went into that country with the advertised intention of helping the locals. Standing by and watching them get blown apart because we're in the area doesn't really factor into that, does it?

they all hate us anyway."death to america" is the official chant from timbukto to tehran to bangkok,from their radios,tv, newapapers , governments.

why should we get entangled?

please answer.

The bombs are there because WE are there. They are aimed at US. We have no intention of leaving the country any time soon, so the bombs will continue to be there. We have a duty of care to these people. If we want to win a counter insurgency conflict we need to work with the population, not just leave them to die.

your assertion bombs can't be triggered by being fired at is nonsense.
why then do these devices explode when a man goes near them or steps on them?

answer that then.

Bombs have initiation devices. They can be command detonated using radio control, command wire etc. They can be rigged up with break beams, magnetic influencers, pressure pads, radio signal initiators, timers, trip wires, tilt switches,... the list is endless.

The point is a bomb doesn't just explode. It needs an initiation device. If a bomb detonates when someone steps on it then it's because it had a pressure pad/plate. If it explodes when someone went near it it's because it was command detonated, had an external pressure plate, had a break beam sensor or was magnetically influenced.

Noise, pressure and vibration can detonate some bombs, but only if they have that type of trigger attached or the explosive is very old and unstable, or certain types of explosives with a low threshold are used. The vast majority of IEDs use military explosives which have a high threshold. You could hit a piece of PE4 with a hammer or set it on fire and it wouldn't blow. Attach a mercury tilt switch to it and it will blow if you touch it.

is it beyond the wit of these bomb defusers to lob a couple of grenades or shock grenades near the bomb?

This may or may not detonate the device, which they may not want to do for reasons already mentioned. If it does then the damage is done. If it doesn't then you are left with a device that is now potentially unstable and could detonate at any time. Not very smart at all really.

The simple fact is there are numerous military and ethical reasons that we have a duty to dispose of the munitions. We are trying to convince the people that we are there to help them, not to destroy them. The Taliban are planting the bombs. to kill us. How do we convince the people we are helping them if we leave these bombs in place to kill innocent civillians or to destroy their property?

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Putting taggants in explosives and gunpowder will put bomb-making terrorists out of business.

In summary: The government-mandated addition of chemical "taggants" to gunpowder and explosives has often been proposed in the U.S. as a legislative strategy for combatting terrorist bombings, by giving such potential bombmaking materials a unique chemical "signature" which could provide investigators additional clues to work from in identifying bombing suspects.

taggants will never work long term.

first one of the leading explosives used in the US is ammonium nitrate.
ammonium nitrate is also the leading AG fertilizer in the US.
so your would have to tag all ammonium nitrate.

ok now you have tagged all ammonium nitrate and you have a sod farm selling grass laced with the tags that sells the grass to say a county or federal court house to redo there lawn.

Three weeks later some bomber blows up the court house with one of the number of home made explosives like TATP(acetone-peroxide)
or a chlorate based made from bleach and salt substitute that does not have tags.
guess who's tags they will find across the lawn.
Not the bombers but the sod growers.
Give it a couple years and a number of time that the court house grounds keeper add more fertilizer. The taggents from the concrete used to build the building and sidewalks.(blasted rock)

Once taggents are put in explosives and things that can be used as explosives the taggent system might catch some for the first 10 year but as time goes on there will be a taggent overload around the country.

Now for afghanistan after 8 years of fighting the taliban should be out of ammo for there AK47s there RPGs and explosives.

When they were fighting the Russians the US was supplying them with AK ammo and explosives. (along with stinger missiles)

But who is supplying them now. they can not be using US ammo it will not fit in AKs. were are not supplying them explosives so where are they getting it. Iran, Pakistan, China.

No insurgency has ever lasted more then a couple years without outside support.

This is one of the reasons we disarm IEDs to find out the source of the material used to build them.
Cell phone have been used as remote detonators in Iraq and afghanistan cell phone have serial numbers to trace them with and find out where they came from.
Explosives can be traced,

Oh i am betting one of the wikileaks disclosures will name a/the country supplying the afghanistan insurgency.
Because the US government already knows but is not making it public for diplomatic reasons. Wikileaks will take care of that

Originally posted by PaddyInf

Originally posted by nobodysavedme

i disagree totally with you.these people have "so little" you say.well if they have so little why risk a bomb defusers life for "so little".

they don't care about each other.why should we?

whats in it for us?

Because what appears as so little to us is all of their worldly possessions and livelyhood. We went into that country with the advertised intention of helping the locals. Standing by and watching them get blown apart because we're in the area doesn't really factor into that, does it?

Are you one of them?

This is how THEY treat anyone who helps them...


look at their faces.

www.latimes.com...


10 decent people killed by them and th driver was probably in collusion.


Look at their faces.

Just going back to the original proposition, of blowing up rather than dismantling EODs

There are many millions of landmines still scattered across former warzones that are active and ready to detonate under the foot of a farmer or returning civilian populace. The majority of these devices will never be found as that is part of their design.

So why not re-design the munition for future conflict clear-up? Biodegradeable munitions that once removed from packaging and laid, has a determined lifespan of say 2-3 years before vital components breakdown and the mine rendered inert?

Whilst that still doesn't solve the problem of needing highly skilled soldiers to defuse IEDs in Afghanistan or Iraq, it would make the ugly art of war just that little safer for those civilians who return once the conflict has gone

From what I have read it appears that the IEDs are used mainly against the Afghans themselves as part of a terrorist campaign to force the support of the general population.

I don't think local infrastructure or personal possessions alone warrant the risk to life of a soldier so this leaves intelligence gathering as the main reason for attempting to disarm. If you are going to disarm a proportion of devices it makes sense to work on the larger devices that will affect the aforementioned and simply BIP the rest.

Therefore it appears our boys are risking their life in the hope of gaining knowledge that leads to the bomb makers, which should mean less bombs planted hence less lives lost overall. Diffusing IEDs is obviously a very important part of the war where a lot is risked for a little or no information.

The problem with this strategy is that there are probably a large number of bomb makers that share designs, information and parts so it could take a long time to eradicate them as appears to be the case.

An important point is to be seen to be doing something to protect the friendly natives to keep them onside and prevent them from increasing the problem.

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
Are you one of them?

No, but I have been on a couple of operational tours there and know that there are good and bad Afghans, just as there are good and bad Americans.

This is how THEY treat anyone who helps them...


look at their faces.

No, that is how certain members who do not represent the people as a whole demonstrate their mis-guided and poorly understood version of religious doctorine.

I hate the people who do this sort of thing and am happy to say that I have had a direct input into the deaths of a few myself. However this doesn't mean that I hate Afghans.

That's like saying all Americans are murderers or rapists because some have committed murder or rape.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by beckybecky

 

Thats only good when the bomber has the bomb.
That was a defense touted by Tesla to explode the enemies
munitions before they come after us.
I think the Illuminati had something to do with that plan going
asunder.
Like before WWI even.
Tesla might have saved the Czar of Russia or was that before his time
A stealthy airship that sends out a wave of weapons ignition still
in the hands of the enemy.
One way to stop a war.
Sweep the mountains of Afghanistan with the Tesla wave and watch
the fireworks.
I forgot, no one told us about the Tesla wave.

This is a good plan and the only one.
Shock waves that lit up Tesla's gas filled bulbs, you see the gas is shook back and
forth into illumination, also will ignite explosives.
That how things work in anti war weapons.

Now if enemy forces start having their weapons and munitions exploding
unexpectedly like bad spirits were attacking them who will tell them otherwise.
People should be smart enough that a super weapon exists to nullify explosives.
This Tesla may be the ultimate Hitler super weapon so great that the Illuminati
can't let out.

So there it is and Tesla is the only living entity to make a space ship.
CIA anti Tesla agent opinions welcome.