TIME.....what the!....

my primary concern from this whole debate is in either eventuality either we reincarnate and dont remember this life or we stay out of time in essentialy nothingness. either way this life has no bearing on anything outside of this life

Originally posted by fallow the light
think of time and the universe as a bubble. outside this bubble there is no time and no matter. if you were to stand outside the bubble and look in, you will see everything inside the bubble happening all at once. everything from the beginning of time to the end of time. it is all one single happening.
when you pass thru the bubble you are bombarded by time and have to experience your journey by were you started in the bubble and were you will end in the bubble, as well as every moment in between. you can not look forewords or backwords since you are subdued to a moment by moment structure.

Yes a very good hypothesis indeed. I have always been of the opinion that universes are like clockwork mechanisms that run forward and backwards in time at the moment of creation. I think it has to do with consciousness being able to travel faster than light and interations of matter. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if God/s might pick and choose universes to experience based on what they see when peering into them from outside of time.

Originally posted by C1OUD
fallow the light

your ideas are well informed, about the viewing of all of time thing as a bubble. you have to consider two factors.

1)whilst out of time you cannot have the time to veiw time passing, in otherwords in order for you to veiw the passing of all of time. you have to observe it which is not possible without some time elapsing

You have to imagine time as universe/field based so time in actual fact when taking into account infinity is actually layered, ie each universe has its own time frame, even universe outside of time have time relatively speaking. It's easier to think of time as conscious observation.

2) to veiw all of time instantly would imply that it occurs at a infinatly quick rate, in which you would observe nothing. im not sure if ive just interpreted the way you wrote this wrong, but from your whole concept i cant see how you would mean it any other way.

I doubt you can observe the unfolding of timelines in the making as it happens so fast, but once the dust has settled so to speak and the spacetime structure is in place and all that is possible has been played out then time becomes viewable from a higher dimension.

i think your very right in the sence we are helpess to escape the fact our reality is bound by time. and perhaps we can never hope to understand it whilst emerced in it.

Indeed we cannot until such a time as we become the higher dimensional observer.



[edit on 8-1-2010 by pharaohmoan]

reply to post by Centurionx

Speaking of time, I also agree that there is a realm outside of the
physical cosmos that not only existed before the big bang, but is infinite.

..."before?" What "before?"

If there is no "time" then the entirety of the universe, from creation through to end, in all of its possibilities was not "created" so much as it was "cut off" from a more complete whole.

The "creation of time" was really a loss of awareness.

From God's perspective, it is like watching from
the Goodyear blimp, seeing time all at once.

Yes. But that "process of watching" is more like "sum total awareness of the entirety of the event as a single entity."

My advice to those who crave magic. Just be free!

The thing is how can 1 tell what time it really is to determine if souls/spirits/energy live for eternia w/o 1 existing in ETERNIA, 1 cannot for you are measuring something that you are inside of so how can this be. Only God can see this and his servents he wants to see this anything else trying to make sense out of it will keep comming up short. To possess the ability to measure such vastness would only be attributed to the CREATOR OF ALL.

EXAMPLE: if ants had a earth time measuring device to measure how long 1 ant would take to go around the earth that they thought they perfected w/o ever seeing the entire earth. Could they accurately measure the time if they cannot even see the distance in which they would have to travel, lol.

Existing outside of time cannot be void and timeless, it just says that those who see a void or timlessness existance are not permitted to see beyond the DARK SPACE THEY ARE PLACED IN signaling you possess a spirit or soul for you have tried to see your creator but are still of the flesh realm and cannot. YOU ARE NOT AN ETERNAL.

s&f for trying to understand this little universe we exist inside.

[edit on 1/8/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

"Who said anything about memory?

Those edges exist. And, the perspective of them as apart from one another also exists. And those different perspetives exist together. As does the perspective of the entire table.

What does memory have to do with anything? "

i agree completely with everything you said here. which is what seems so weird. what we do in our life seems completely irrelevent if in no condition afterwards are we able to draw on the experiances we have now in some way.

WHAT IS TIME?...

i think a better way to think of it is, how do we MEASURE TIME?...
we measure time by a series of events, usually repeating itself in a natural form. Planet rotation, moon and sun rising, orbiting the sun etc.

Now if you exist outside of a physical realm, where there would be no atoms etc., then how would you be able to measure time?
you would base if off of?...

I dont think you can measure time outside of this universe, simply because there is no way to measure it at all. If nothing exists, then there is no way to measure how long it has even existed for?
Perhaps "GOD" as we will call it...thought and recognized itself as infinite, and thus the big bang was created and a physical universe is born.
IT (GOD/UNIVERSE) recognized something about itself for the FIRST TIME...and everything else followed, because perhaps it was able to "TRACK/REMEMBER" how long ago that happened.
I guess going back to the fact that it was able to measure itself, and create a thing called "TIME"

Did this thought help in any bit?
OP YOUR THOUGHTS ARE VERY MIND PROVOKING flag =]

I posted something similair to this in a thread about how consciousness is a result of the quantum world it went something like this

Death is just the death of the personality not the "soul"(I use the word soul loosely here). If u can see death as a type of amnesia and that when you die you wake up in another body to start life all over again without prior knowledge of your previous life.
Also if you can believe that the Universe has only one soul and its that soul which is in every single living creature then you can see the logic in the OP view on death and quantum processes.

Anyway Time dosent exist. ITs an mental tool available to all living creatures in which to measure the passage of changes in its enviorment. ITs a mental construct used to contruct the universe derived from quantum processes.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by loner007]

[edit on 8-1-2010 by loner007]

reply to post by C1OUD

what we do in our life seems completely irrelevent if in no condition afterwards are we able to draw on the experiances we have now in some way.

Is that really fair? Your life stands on its own. It doesn't require outside "memories" of other existences to validate it. So why should other existences require "memories" of this one to validate them?

However, again with the table analogy, while yes there is perspective of the left side, and yes there is perspective of the right side, and yes these perspectives do not include awareness of each other...so too is there the perspective of the whole table that includes awareness of all its components.

Just because in your other lives you have no awareness of this one, just because in this life you have no awareness of the others...that doesn't mean that there isn't also a "unified" perspective, a "whole" soul with awareness of all of these lives in union.

reply to post by LordBucket


If you accept the idea that there are an infinite ammount of universes and so as you put it. An infinite amount of seperate time scales in relation to each universal creation. Then i imagine that each new universe is created from a universe that already exists.

Imagine matter getting sucked in to a black hole in one universe and then on the other side of that black hole. Theres a big bang that creates a whole new universe and a whole new time.

This would mean that all time and all universes were linked in a never ending loop.

However this still leaves the question of where did the first Universe start from. Which still leaves room for "God" or a realm free from time where a force could actively start the first universe and start the whole process.

Maybe its the small gap within the black hole where one universe ending meets a new universe begining.

reply to post by Algebra

However this still leaves the question of where did the first Universe start from.

I generally answer these questions by applying more dimensions, rather than looking elsewhere in three+time.

i imagine that each new universe is created from
a universe that already exists.

I won't disagree, but the way I would interpet the word "universe" in this statement is a bit different from what I would usually mean by the word.

Let me offer you the God as bathroom tile analogy:

Imagine a set of bathroom tiles. They are square tiles, laid out in rows. All of the tiles on the bathroom floor exist. And, if you view all of them at once, that is "god."

Now, while looking at the tiles, look at every other tile so as to form rows of diagonals. If you [ii]actually do this you'll be able to see" a pattern where none exists simply by directing your focus. Similar to how you can look an the outline of a cube and choose to perceive any of several faces as being "in front."

Now, of those diagonal tiles, adjust your perspective to only focus only on a three by three area of the floor. You now have something like looks like this:

X X
X
X X

There's your universe. And from there you can refine it, for example, to only looking at the two of the left, or the one in the middle, or whatever. You can even look only at a portion of a single tile. But in all cases, the tiles on the bathroom floor have not changed at all. Only your focus. Only your choice of which tiles to pay attention to.

Now, imagine an infinity of bathroom tiles, all the size of quantum particle states, existing in infinitely many dimensions.

It makes sense to perceive "this lifetime" as a discreet thing just like it makes sense to perceive a set of bathroom tiles as a discreet thing. But...it would make just as much sense to perceive any other combination of tiles as a discreet thing. In principal there should be no reason not to be able to perceive, for example, your life in its entirety from birth to death as a single event. There should be no reason not to be able to perceive, for example, all of your lives as a single event. Or The lives of all men. Or the lives of ants plus aardvarks. Or any other combination.

Any combination makes sense. Any combination can be perceived. If we only perceive one frame of of a single life...that's simply the extent to which our perception is perceiving.

there are an infinite ammount of universes

Perhaps. But I suggest that the difference between universes is what is focused on.


[edit on 8-1-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by LordBucket


So what your saying is God is just the one thing that unites all the universes?

reply to post by Algebra

God is just the one thing that unites all the universes?

"Unites?"

I would say "god is all that is."

A universe is just one arbitrary subset of "all that is."

lordbucket you seem to be densely educated on this subject have u studied this particular area or like me just given it some thought indivudally and come up with some answers

reply to post by C1OUD

you seem to be densely educated on this subject have u studied this particular area or like me just given it some thought indivudally and come up with some answers

Thank you. Years of meditating, lots of reading, and as you say...lots of time simply thinking about things. Plus a good deal of time spent on web forums talking to people.

this subject

...well, I don't think I've gone out of my way to focus on this particular subject. If, as I suggest, god is "everything" then knowledge of any and all subjects brings one greater awareness of god, yes?

indeed, like i said the reason for this thread was for everyone to learn from each other. and you provided me with some new concepts to think about