Bomb explodes in Northern Ireland

reply to post by the_denv


Thank you.

Would you be "for the UK" if the year was 1918?

Would your view on the subject be different if the world economy and more specifically Irelands economy was better?

Originally posted by BingeBob
reply to post by the_denv

 

Thank you.

Would you be "for the UK" if the year was 1918?

Would your view on the subject be different if the world economy and more specifically Irelands economy was better?

No bother

I don't think I would be "for the UK" if the year was 1918, there was more violence and human right violations done back then that could never be forgiven.

In my eyes, the economy has nothing to do with anything. Money is money, love, life and freedom can never be settled with any kind of economic satisfaction.

(To that other guy with the aggressive tone, welcome...your the first person ever to be on my ignore list. My family home was burned down, I simply wont give any information on it because it was a "Lords" house and if I gave that information to the masses on ATS and the entire internet then I would probably be shot dead or my family that still live beside this house would be killed. You are a very ignorant man and nearly everything you said, you said with hatred and you seriously need to re-educate yourself, but your a bigot and bigots never change)

reply to post by the_denv


Nevermind...misread your post

Nope...mis-misread it...

Question still stands...

If the acts in the age of the early 1900's were unforgivable than why so soon to forget them?

My first posted question here was worded better but im lazy...

[edit on 9-1-2010 by BingeBob]

[edit on 9-1-2010 by BingeBob]

[edit on 9-1-2010 by BingeBob]

My mess up was getting hard to understand above...

The reason I mentioned the economy was that earlier in the thread someone had said that the republic couldnt handle taking on the north due to the current economy.


*side note

I didnt get a chance to make it to the north country. My first trip was this past july for my honeymoon we started in Dublin and worked our way south and west staying in Kinsale, Killarney and Newmarket on Fergus...I live in NH but my heart belongs to Kinsale!

Originally posted by BingeBob
reply to post by the_denv

 

If the acts in the age of the early 1900's were unforgivable than why so soon to forget them?

I don't forget them, a lot of people do though. I was not there obviously, but I am told stories by my elders and I read the articles of the past. I think there is a difference of "forgetting" and "not wanting to relive the past". I think maybe people dont forget it, but wish not to speak about it in fear of it happening all over again; people want a fresh start, but it doesnt change the fact that Irish people were treated like second class citizens in Ireland (Yes N.Ireland is still Ireland). N. Ireland is more Irish than it is British, the fact is, an entire sea separates the two countries.

Originally posted by BingeBob
The reason I mentioned the economy was that earlier in the thread someone had said that the republic couldnt handle taking on the north due to the current economy.

*side note

I didnt get a chance to make it to the north country. My first trip was this past july for my honeymoon we started in Dublin and worked our way south and west staying in Kinsale, Killarney and Newmarket on Fergus...I live in NH but my heart belongs to Kinsale!

Well, right now as it stands; people from the Republic of Ireland travel to Belfast to buy their groceries and do their shopping because its cheaper here in Northern Ireland. I think maybe the ROI don't want NI because they can't even manage their own state of affairs as it is. ROI should return to the "punt" and get out of the EU if they wish to stand a chance.

That would have been the best option for you and your spouse (going south), its a much prettier country, more pleasurable views and scenery in ROI. Here in N.Ireland the only beautiful counties (in my opinion) would be Fermanagh and Tyrone. Lovely scenery and lots of places to visit, lots of castles too. I have never been to Kinsale, sounds like a great place

Originally posted by BingeBob
So whom do the rest of us believe. There are at least 2 sides to every story and this topic is no different.

On the RIRA side you could say of course they are going to plant explosives and run. Why would anyone want to take on the whole of the british war machine face to face?

Well, Im Irish Catholic from the Republic and if I was forced to choose a side from only two choices, I would obviously have to choose the United Ireland choice.. even though my views are completely that Northern Ireland should be governed by itself as it is currently and majority rule should determine if it stays in the UK or not.

So I should in theory be a supporter of the IRA.. and I do support their previous attempts to bring equality for Catholics to Northern Ireland which has now resulted in the most prosperous period ever for NI.. but I don't support killing of innocents..

Now.. the RIRA are not the IRA. The RIRA who are most likely the main suspects for the bombing in question are an ultra violent, ultra nationalist splinter group who's main means of organizing funds is through organized crime and extortion. They are "wankers". While the original 'Provisional' IRA are no longer a militant group and "support peace and political union in NI".. the RIRA are a tiny tiny group of violent individuals who say they are for a united Ireland but support and direct a large amount of the criminal element that afflicts both sections of the country.

If this bombing was by the Provisional IRA, then I would be pretty quiet as they would usually have good reasons but the RIRA are nothing more than an ultra violent criminal gang so they do deserve to be put down for the slaughter of Innocent people and children over the years.

They are not fighting for the people or for a cause.. they are fighting for criminal respect and recognition it seems.

I hope this cleared up something for you.

Now.. the RIRA are not the IRA. The RIRA who are most likely the main suspects for the bombing in question are an ultra violent, ultra nationalist splinter group who's main means of organizing funds is through organized crime and extortion. They are "wankers". While the original 'Provisional' IRA are no longer a militant group and "support peace and political union in NI"..

reply to post by Dermo


IMO The provo's are wankers too; so were the INLA, UVF, UDA, LVF, Red Hand Comandoes(lol); all of them just thugs and gangsters who held their communities by fear and intimidation.. Ive met enough so-called "players" on both sides to come to that conclusion.. Admitedly so, the provo's had a cause in the begining but towards the end the main "rival gangs" PIRA/UDA used to meet up to "carve up" their territories for drug pushing, racketeering and protection scams... It was all about the money for most.. So dont romanticise the boys of the old brigade...
If you want to bring up the past.. How about the ROI siding with Hitler in WW2? Launching attacks on London during the blitz? And allowing Hitler to launch attacks on Northern Ireland and England from their ports??

But past is past.. Time to move on!! I hope those bombers get caught and the full weight of the law is bought on them.. They would no longer be classed as POW's (lol) and have special treatment in nick....

reply to post by Selahobed


Woah there lass.. I think you might be jumping the gun on this one. You have to read the full post that I am replying to before trying to scald me

For the record.. I couldn't give a s**t about the troubles, the militants, religion, nationalism, "The Paddy's", "The Limey's" and all that rubbish. Im only commenting in this thread because there's a lot of people spouting bias nonsense that needs to be rectified from a relatively non bias perspective.

And your history is a lil off
FYI.. Churchill asked (Told) Ireland to remain neutral during WW2 because if the Republic declared war on the Nazi's.. the UK would have had to occupy Ireland in order to prevent a pincer on the Island Fortress.

And its official that the EIRE sided with the Axis against the Allies??

Even though Ireland was used for transporting and refueling Allied forces and hundreds of thousands of Irish fought in the Royal Irish regiments in the British army because we couldn't declare war on the Nazi's ourselves for fear of a re-occupation by an Empire that had murdered/caused the deaths of over 3 million of us over the previous 400 years over our religion..

Eh.. No. We did things that I'm not proud of like signing Hitlers book of condolences & turning a blind eye to workings by both sides around Irish shores.. but siding with the Nazi's? Ridiculous. Ireland never officially got involved in anyone's imperial wars.

Anyway.. as you said.. history is history.. but at least have it some way in perspective


[edit on 9/1/10 by Dermo]

You know your history Dermo, Nice one; I agree.

Update on Peader's condition.

So I got told that Peadar is now in a situation where he may lose his legs. I was told this by my brother who spoke to a close friend of the family. He may lose one or both legs. For a man who was a great GAA player, this is absolutely sad

I hope they can save his legs. There is a small percentage that he can, fingers crossed!


[edit on 9/1/2010 by the_denv]

Couple of things here.

I was a member of the UDR/R Irish Home Service Part Time in the early 90s. There were some very dodgy individuals in the Regiment, particularly in the early days, but that doesn't mean we all were. I had a choice as a young man who watched friends and family being murdered and maimed by republican terrorists. I could either do nothing, join a loyalist organisation or join the military/police. I chose the UDR because of family connections and the fact that the loyalist paramilitaries were as bad as the nationalist ones in my eyes. You state that we were evil etc, but we didn't come into your homes at night and shoot you dead in your bed, or plant bombs under the family cars of you or your friends. Eight members of my regiment were murdered while off duty and going about their lives the year I joined. I'm now a member of the R Irish general service battalion, and am proud to have served my community.

The bombing yesterday was a cowardly attack against a man who was trying to build bridges between the communities. He regularly taught Irish language classes within the police. He was a prominent GAA player in the police team (a sport played almost solely by members of the nationalist community). He was targeted because the murdering scum want to keep violence as part of the people of Ulsters' lives. This constable is the sort of man we need in the police to build cross-community bridges, and these evil turds know it.

I live in England now as that's where we are based. I hear it from people who have never been to Ulster all the time. "You only need to do this..." or "Why don't they just do that..." etc. Those of you who are from outside the province and think you understand it - you don't. Most of the people who live in N ireland barely grasp it. there's an old saying -

If you think you understand the Ulster Troubles, you haven't got all the facts.

Edited to add

I hope Const Heffron makes a speedy recovery and my thoughts are with him and his family.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by PaddyInf]

reply to post by Dermo


Excuse me.. My history is right on... I have seen paperwork maybe you havent, but have definitely met the results of them... To my mind they were mostly communist, leftist.. But in the end they are nothing but gangsters.. Still are.. My kids would attest to it!!

And ireland DID, or parts of it side with hitler.. There was even Irish battalions in the german army... Google it.. Its history... But gone... And hope it stays that way..
I just cant wait for the decent hard working normal NI people to dump these asswipes for good.. They are
still there I know.. I know some of them... But you guys have been through too much to let them win.... Dont let them win...

Just for those of you who may think this is an isolated attack, here is a quick update of Dissadent Republican activity over the last few months. One or two attacks may be missing, but you will get the point.

January 09
300lb bomb abandoned outside a primary school in Casltlewellan, Co Down.

March 09
Two soldies, Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey, murdered in a gun attack at Masserene Bks in Antrim. Two other soldiers and two pizza delivery boys seriously injured in the same attack.

PSNI Const Stephen Carrol shot dead in Craigavon

Oglaigh na hEireann (ONH - a dissident republican group) claim responsibility for a 300lb bomb aimed at Roberts Bks, Ballykinler. Attack cancelled due to increase in local security.

May 09
Senior Sinn Fein member Michael McLaughlins house attacked with petrol bomb by dissident republicans.

June 09
Sinn Fein member Connor Murphys house targeted with an arson attack by dissadent republicans.

July 09
Blast bombs thrown at police during rioting in Belfast, organised by R IRA.

August 09
Large groups of armed men from the R IRA mount illegal vehicle checkpoints near the Armagh border handing out leaflets to people warning against supporting the security forces either side of the border.

September 09
600lb bomb found in populated are in Forkhill near the border in S Amagh aimed at police patrols in the area.

Two bombs found near the homes of local policemans relatives claimed by the R IRA in Londonderry.

October 09
In East Belfast a bomb explodes under the car of a senior police officers car, injuring his girlfriend. The police officer was not in the vehicle.

November 09
400lb bomb left outside the Policing Boards headquarters in a busy part of Belfast fails to explode.

Shots fired at undercover police during an attempted assassination of a trainee police officer in Fermanagh.


So as you can see, yesterdays attack was not just a simple act of violence but part of an orchastrated escallation of force in an obvious attempt to bring the Province back down to the level of the bad old days.

reply to post by PaddyInf


Excellent

Dont forget the Garrison Shootout (Source) (24/Nov/09)

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by ugie1028

 

Ermm...Northern Ireland has a history of terrorism - so does Britain as an entity. Terrorism did not start post-September 11. After all, the republicans are financed by Americans in New York (ironic, yeah)

The only other group, who participate in more terrorism, is animal rights group such as the Animal Liberation Front.

The republican movement has not been funded to any large degree by NORAID and the US for a long, long time and especially in the post 9/11 era. The vast majority of their income has come from the smuggling of cigarettes, petrol, etc as well as other organised crime ventures. This is the same as the 'Loyalist' paramilitary gangs.

Originally posted by the_denv
reply to post by PaddyInf

 

Excellent

Dont forget the Garrison Shootout (Source) (24/Nov/09)

I didn't. It was the last one in my post

There does seem to be an increase in serious activity of late and although this a worrying trend I think the positive point is that from my experiances, the general public are not interested in a return to the gun in anyway, shape or form having sampled the life of peace for the past couple of years and that includes both Catholic AND Protestant communities.

Any gunman who takes up arms will find that he will garner a lot of enemies and will lack the international support of yesteryear. The recent scandal involving the brother Gerry Adams' family may have caused a destablising in Sinn Fein but the people still belive in the power of the vote and politics rather than waging another campaign against the Brits.

reply to post by Selahobed


As I said.. "In theory I SHOULD support the IRA".. but I don't - one innocent's death ruins a whole cause. I don't know where you seem to be getting another idea from. Where was I romanticizing? I know what the IRA are/were.

What I did say I support is their old ideology of inter religious equality.. albeit not through violence.

Also.. where does the Communist/Leftist bit come in? Doesn't Britain have a "Socialist Left" government in the labour party?

And I can understand why A TINY TINY FEW Irish people sided against the British as a result of bad blood but saying that Ireland supported the Nazi's is ridiculous. If thats the case.. I could say all English supported genocide in Ireland.. which I know is not the case.

Noone here supports the RIRA or any of those other idiots.. and if there are a few, they are viewed as small minded undereducated idiots by the rest. Quite a few might say they support the old IRA but if you don't understand that, then Im not going to try and explain. Love of the UK and England is at its highest ever in this country so there's noone looking to take down the union over history.
When the soldiers were attacked last year, there were protests in every city in the republic to show the RIRA that we didn't want any part of their violence against Britain. And what I was TRYING to explain to the American dude is that RIRA aren't at all trying to push a cause for the people, they are just violent criminals looking to flex their muscles through attacks.


[edit on 10/1/10 by Dermo]

Originally posted by andy mac myc

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
reply to post by BingeBob

 

"If the idiot Orangemen would stop their needless provocations come marching season and if the PSNI managed a little bit better with their equal policing policies and Paisely would finally shut the # up, would you still demand the union of Northern Ireland with the Republic of Eire?

Or would you prefer to live in the UK with it's greater taxation base and better ability to deliver funding to social and public services?

Or would you still wish to join a truly neutral nation on the edge of the EU?"

You mean an "objective" question like that, that somehow removes the emotions from the equation?

ok a question. What is so provocative from your view point that the orange order actually do? Are you aware of the orange order demonstration in Donegal in the republic of Ireland there year after year passes with no trouble. So is it the demonstrations that are provocative or is how people percieve them that is the problem.

I was just trying to point out how difficult it would be to take emotions out of such a process. As was pointed out in a later post, the Republic has given republicans fairly short shrift from the beginning and as Donegal is is in the 20 counties and not the 6 the Orangemen there represent the minority in a country that has been remarkably stable politically since its inception, given how that inception took place.

As for the Orangemen in Ulster it's mostly how they are protrayed and perceived in the media. And it's always the same estate that's featured every year with the "Catholics" coming out to either block the road or generally get ready for a brawl. All of it right next to a school.

Basically it all just comes across as juvenile provocation by the Orangemen. Absent such childish antics, how would Catholics perceive the cost/benefit ratio of remaining British?

Secondly which Ian Paisley are you reffering to as one has retired from politics.

I was referring to the retired retired minister. I know he's "gone from the scene" now, but it's only very recently that he had claimed the title of Greatest Block to Power-Sharing. NI is no picnic, I understand, but had Paisely continued on his course it would have been a long time before a historian could use the word "visionary" in the same sentence as the man's name. Sometimes peace requires ugly, nasty compromises.

Also in my opinion the republic of Ireland in it's current state could not cope finacially with a united Ireland. It would also mean for the people living in norhern Ireland at the minute that benefits would be greatly reduced and health care etc would need to be paid for.

Yes, I know. It's the same with the Quebequois Independents. They want their own country, but have no way of paying for it.

That's why I believe the greatest way to prevent "secession" or "re-unification" or whichever political tag you choose would simply be to point out what not being British would cost. As in what the people would directly lose.

I guess it would be the modern equivalent of the women demanding the IRB get out of the GPO in 1916 because they were interfering with the pensions etc.

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
So this is all just people who are pissed off at the Gov't and want to change the course of their country to perserve the motherland and what it stands for? If that's the case then I support their CAUSE.

Wow. How delightfully reductive. Possibly the worst post i've ever read. Please educate yourself on the matter before posting such nonsense in future. Thanks

UPDATE ON PEADAR'S CONDITION

I just got told that Peadar just lost one of his legs