Brave New World vs. 1984 (Huxley vs. Orwell)

I thought this was a cartoon people here would like, and would hopefully generate some good discussion:

www.egodialogues.com...

So, what do you all think? I believe unraveling this dichotomy
is key to establishing a healthier and freer society (as well as brining together seemingly disparate groups that equally despise what they call the true powers that be).

If I had to say, clearly Huxley's vision is much more the type of oppression I recognize in modern day america. However, it was under Bush where clear steps were taken towards an orwellian style of dominance. It is interesting that it was the liberals (aside from Ron Paul) who were most vocal in response to the qushing of civil liberties under the bush regime. When many of the less-educated teabag types yell about 'freedom this and freedom that,' it kills me that they don't seem to realize that there is nothing free about being consumerist automatons....

On the other hand, fascism would probably be even more horrible, so I do understand the fear many libertarians have of big brother. However, I don't think it helps the cause, in the long-run, to equate stalinism and fascism w/ any type of system that doesn't let corporations do whatever they want to whoever they want. Humans are somewhat collectivist in nature, and at least at the moment, cultures that seem to have figured that out are poised to be the super-powers of the next generation.

CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE, THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROVIDE CORPORATIONS WITH UNALIENABLE RIGHTS.

Believing the above does not make me a socialist or a communist. In fact, people who want a true free-market system would have to agree that many more market errors today, in the usa, are a result of corporatism run amok, as opposed to over-regulation. If anything, our regulatory agencies are either way overwhelmed in terms of man-hours, or corrupted by the lack of a firewall between lobbyists and those that are supposed to be the regulators of the agencies they represent.

Best,
Skunknuts

Both can exist simultaneously.

Take something like law enforcement for example. We have non-cops feeling oppressed and controlled by force the Orwellian way and the cops themselves getting their jollies off of the perceived power they wield not paying any mind to the fact that they are simple pawns. Controlled by pleasure the Huxley way.

Then there's the Forster way with "the Machine Stops" where we all lock ourselves up by choice and the Vonnegut way with "Harrison Bergeron" where we demand equality at gunpoint.

They all work together at all times creating complacency, token opposition, fear and pleasure to keep us all living a real life with real freedom.

After all they'll let us march and shout all we want to as long we keep paying our taxes.

Huxley was closer with his prediction but then again he had a distinct advantage.

It's a lot easier to predict the future when you are in with the people writing it.

His own brother was the first director of UNESCO.

Julian Huxley (1887-1975) | First director of UNESCO Brother of Aldous.

"Political unification in some sort of world government will be required... Even though... any radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care, and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable." - 1946

Taken from UNESCO: Its Purpose and Its Philosophy. Having come just one year after that appalling instance of widespread eugenics in the 3rd Reich it is staggering that this comment has never been taught in schools. This book is still available in its entirety from the Unesco website,

I've read both these books (both excellent!) and I never made the distinction that this cartoon does. I think there are strong elements of both in society. Looking at Huxley's view, take a peek at television or entertainment in general, and you'll see so-called reality TV and crap like that, but looking at Orwell's view, I think governments are a lot closer to his ideas than Huxley's.

Thinking about it for a bit as I write this, I would say that our governments are a lot more like Orwell's, but Huxley's ideas where people make themselves useless and stupid by pursuing pleasure, well, society is doing that to themselves without any help from the powers that be.

Awesome link S+F

I think Huxley is right on -

just a bunch of idiots neutered with options, while being stripped of real options

Dang

Wow ol' Aldous had it dead to rights!

Some more in Brave new World that isn't mentioned in the cartoon;
Wild meaningless booty calls, and the dissolution of the family structure, and a widening gap of social classes, where the lower classes are taught to stay away from more high born intellectual pleasure in favor of those for them. Think monster truck rally verse Opera.