Labels and the BOX they put us in!

reply to post by endisnighe


Exactly. Again nice post Star and Flag.

reply to post by AlternateEnding


Another part of why I wrote this was that I was wondering why I was getting so angry with someone I was debating.

They kept using these labels that were getting me mad.

I did not understand it until a few other things came up and I talked with numerous people here.

I tell you what, I have learned more here in 5 months then in the last 5 years.

Thanks for your comment and keep thinking outside that BOX.

And maybe instead of putting others in boxes, maybe tell them about the box.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by adifferentbreed

 

I got the idea for this thread from several different things over the last couple of days.

The main one was a comment I wrote when someone asked what label should we put on an idea.

My response was that for myself I do not like labels. I am what I am. You know the old Popeye saying.

Iyam what Iyam!

Thanks for the comment and think outside that BOX.

spinach is outside the box......

if i can offer a thought-
just like a kaleidoscope breaks 'light' into fascinating patters and shapes, so too are labels a way for us, not to categorize out of fear of survival, but rather because the stillness is too still? too quiet?
as one poster said- labels don't matter. i think one should be more concerned about dying, knowing they have lived a good life than about dying, wondering what people will think about them. if one is going to be 'concerned' at all. that too is a label or- as i like to think- a concept, definitely fallible and impermanent, ultimately. conventionally of course we learn these labels to get fed and eventually get laid (don't worry some of you, it'll happen!!). perfectly valid reasons, i think. so in that case, it is our ego that leads us to get too involved in one thing or another through labels or concepts and we forget about what's really important, why we were incarnated in the first place..... that similar to 'incarcerated'.....no coincidence im sure.




[edit on 5-1-2010 by IandEye]

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by AlternateEnding

 

I tell you what, I have learned more here in 5 months then in the last 5 years.

Ah, the trick is to remember what you have learned and then
to be able to apply what you have learned in a consistent manner
and application.
I wish I could remember all that I forgot!

reply to post by endisnighe


Just like how the same group that was associated with the racists/revolutionary box was saying the same thing about Obama hating white people/communists/Hitler. It happens on all sides. The problem is that our country for centuries and decades have always been intolerant of people that don't look like the local Homogenous group of the area or region. When ideas come out of the strangers we look at it as foreign or something we don't like because of the bearer of the message. Putting things in boxes and labeling them has always been used to control groups of people and belittle them if necessary, I agree with you on that. It's a form of disrespect when you label a person a character or an animal or anything that makes you a non-individual, and thats the point. Take away the individual and the person hating or attempting to hate that group in a box won't feel connected to them. Thats why you don't see this in a homogenous society of one type of people, because everybody feels like they can trust that the person they are helping or walking buy or having an argument with because deep down they believe they are in the same ballpark in believing what others of their group believe.

You want to stop the boxes and the labeling of boxes in a society like ours. This is what you do, pull apart all the little boxes and all the little labels and make it one big box and one big label. In effect merge all the cultures of the US into one. People don't like getting away from their boxes and think this is polyanna in its thinking, but that is the only alternative (besides all out war) to get a from of peace. By taking away parts of each group and making them part of your own you share the pain and and the cheer of each and everyone across all the boxes. Merging cultures and traditions are the only way that we as a multicultural society that has people boxing each other and labeling each other can stop this game and enable a society that feels like everyone is apart of each other instead of trying to push them away and label them as THOSE people.

reply to post by hoghead cheese


Excellent comment. Excellent.

I have been referring to myself a lot recently as a human being with regards to the Sovereign citizen or Freeman of the land discussion.

I feel that the labeling of the people in Gitmo and other rendition prisons tries to dehumanize their existence so that we can persecute them as non persons.

I had brought up in another debate that our constitution when talking about rights of the people never mention citizens.

I believe that was to infer, that all people shall be given those same basic human rights and to classify those rights as citizens only would further the ability to remove those barriers. Sometimes I think those men that wrote those documents had to be some of the smartest men to ever live.

Thanks for your excellent comment and inform others of that BOX.

What a great thread!

I think in Life, from the moment we are born, we are labeled/put into boxes by others, or we label/put ourselves into boxes of our choosing.

Sometimes this is done benignly as a way of trying to make sense out of Life/Ourselves, although the results may not always prove benign. Sometimes it is done by others without our best interests in mind or with malintent.

My husband got me into watching a tv program, Wife Swap, which I poo-poohed to him as being "beneath" my viewing habits. As I watched it, I realized that the best outcomes (with even some of the most opposite of families) followed this same idea of getting out of the box; the exchange of different ideas made both families change FOR THE BETTER IN THEIR OWN WAY.

ATS offers a similar function, an exchange of facts/opinions which can give us insights/inspirations. We can come away a better person for it.

Maybe I'll always live in a world of my choosing, but I know for a fact that my World is a lot bigger and better because of my contact with others. Sometimes taking off a label is painful, as ripping really sticky tape off your skin, but, like being able to take off a bandaid, it means the healing has begun.

As a general conspiracy, yes, we must keep in mind that the idea of "divide and conquer" in this context can only be good for the conqueror. We the People, Citizens, must reach out to grasp what we have in common and not let us be divided. We must not be blinded to our common needs.

Reply to post by endisnighe

Tall order for a species of labelmakers and box dwellers. I don't mean this with any malice or say this to demean the human race though. I am not claiming to be an alien or immune. But that's how our minds work. "They" didn't do it to us, we are duplicent in our own captively. The key is to not take the simple and easy way out and think in terms of individauls instead of generalized groups.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by endisnighe
...I believe that was to infer, that all people shall be given those same basic human rights and to classify those rights as citizens only would further the ability to remove those barriers. Sometimes I think those men that wrote those documents had to be some of the smartest men to ever live.

I love this statement.
That's what makes me proud to be in the land where these Great Ideas were penned. By this thread, I still believe Great Ideas are possible.

Our task is to honor, defend, and live by these ideas.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Watcher you hit it on the head. It is we who must make a conscience choice in how we view others.

I, along with anyone else here at ATS hide behind the veil of anonymity and can label and box people all day long without any consequence other than harsh words in return.

In our everyday lives, we can do so, but will make one look ignorant and have a lack of understanding outside their own little 'box'. The irony is ripe.

I have never had formal debate training nor speech training but one thing I know is, if you are to make a point, the quickest way of it getting shot down is to generalize and paint the broad strokes. There will always be someone that is an exception to the rule (supposed rule that is).

That is also how real life is. On a small scope, there are over 300 million people in the United States. Even when we get boxed into a poll that says 50% this or 35% that....it is a generalization and from the current mood, we still enjoy it. It makes us feel good that we can either be clumped into with others or it justifies beliefs because the 'others' all think the wrong thing.

Breaking that mold and realizing that each of us are our own person will allow one to grow in knowledge and understanding beyond one's belief!

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by sgrrsh26

 

Yes, I could have made this a huge thread delving into all of the aspects of this, but than it would have become a book. Thanks for seeing the box.

Hi Endisnighe

Thanks for the invite.

Guilty! I use labels.

Now to business if you please. I'll start with this post.

No you made this thread a box because you are a hypocrite, and a crybaby.

In the last few days you have been doing everything in your power to put anyone who disagrees with your ideology, and, or your condescension in a box of your making.

For accuracy check the time and date of this thread and that of each posted link.

Here is what got you frustrated Link

Here is your problem Link

Here is what really caused you to created this thread with a narrow scopeLink

Here is what set you off Read it word for word - I stand by every word

Here is your reaction Link

Here is your brilliant revenge / deceitful edit / Invitation Link

So there it is OP, on topic, served up cold, in your own words, as you asked.

That's all Folks

Ziggy

reply to post by ziggystrange


You actually should have posted some of my comments that showed me using the labels.

I am sure some are out there.

I am guilty as charged and I now vow to try to not use those tactics anymore.

Actually looked at all of the links and hope anyone seeing your links go to them and see what ziggy is mad about or mad at me about.

A lot of it has to do with this thread HERE-
ATTENTION Patriots / Birthers / Teabaggers / Whomever - If you did get your Revolution, Then What?

Now you can see another thing that told me about labels and the box.

I will not go any further, so that is the end of my dealings with that!

Let me show you what I mean by labeling and putting people in boxes.

Something that many are guilty of here at ATS, look at this and tell me where people learn to use these techniques-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/123d9010891a.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by desert


Thank you for your comment.

Yes, that first step does hurt and is frightening. That box does look good but the effort must be made to not go back and let that wound heal.

You and I will be tempted to go back to the box because it is safe and secure.

God bless and enjoy the view from outside your box.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Reply to post by endisnighe

 

Tall order for a species of labelmakers and box dwellers. I don't mean this with any malice or say this to demean the human race though. I am not claiming to be an alien or immune. But that's how our minds work. "They" didn't do it to us, we are duplicent in our own captively. The key is to not take the simple and easy way out and think in terms of individauls instead of generalized groups.

Actually made me laugh and think. Yes, we are guilty ourselves of placing our minds in the box, but it is the first step to see that enclosure as detrimental to our lives. We have to see everyone's point of view and the boxes they reside in.

God bless and keep enjoying the scenery outside your box.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

That is also how real life is. On a small scope, there are over 300 million people in the United States. Even when we get boxed into a poll that says 50% this or 35% that....it is a generalization and from the current mood, we still enjoy it. It makes us feel good that we can either be clumped into with others or it justifies beliefs because the 'others' all think the wrong thing.

Breaking that mold and realizing that each of us are our own person will allow one to grow in knowledge and understanding beyond one's belief!

See, this is why I came to ATS. Ideas, real debate and inspiration.

Thanks obe. Your box looks to be getting further away. God bless.

reply to post by ziggystrange

ziggystrange,
You have the evidence...of a "crime" I suppose. What is the remedy?
Or, back up. What is the charge?
Are you demonstrating your ability to detect evil intentions?
Or, perhaps, you are Josephus?
Recording history, for posterity?

reply to post by hoghead cheese


Great post....but I'm not sure multi culturalism is the end of it, as I'm not sure everyone defines it the same way. I like my life the way it is, and to some it may be a simple "white" life. And granted, it probably looks that way from the outside....here is where people fail to see multi culturalism, I think.
I live on a small island, spend alot of time fishing and sailing, music is a big part of my life, and I enjoy time with my family and friends. Now I'm generally thought of by people, especially on boards such as these as a far right conservative......lets look a little closer with the boxes and labels first, then without.
With the boxes and labels, I don't like the present administration, I dislike rap music and the gangster mentality in todays society, I don't approve of abortion on demand, I don't think gay marriage is o.k, I think private organizations should have a say in their membership without outside influences, I think the gay agenda should not be taught in school, I think the teachers unions have failed us, I think no child left behind is a farce, I hate political correctness, I don't think the FCC is relevant, nor doing it's job anymore, I think the MSM is not only by and large left wing biased, but out right owned by the WH in some respects. I do think somewhere in the middle east someone is planning on killing alot of westerners simply for being infidels and not being muslim.
So, lets get the labels going...I don't like the administration, rap, or the gangster lifestyle....I must be a racist. I don't think gay marriage is o.k, I don't want the gay agenda brought into schools, I think private organizations should have a say in their membership......I must be a homophobe, and probably a fundie, or at least a Christian. I think the teachers unions have failed us and that no child left behind is a farce....I could be a racist, a neocon, or a homophobe on that one. I don't think the FCC is doing it's job anymore.....definately a prude, and probably a fundie. I think the MSM is left biased and owned by the WH.....definately a neocon, right wing teabagging, home grown terrorist. I do think somewhere in the middle east someone of islamic faith is plotting to kill lots of westerners.....I must be a right wing conservative racist Islamaphobe.
O.k. now lets reverse it, i am half Cajun half English, I have 2 black relations, my daughters best friend is black, I predominately listen to pre 1970 blues, I love R&B, nothing better than "black" cooking in my opinion, so am I a racist? I don't dislike Obama for being black, I dislike how he got into office, and what he's done since he's been there. The whole gangster mentality today, I find no redeeming qualities in, yet the media hypes it so much it's not even funny.......so am I really a racist, or do I dislike a part of society for other reasons?
I don't approve of abortion on demand. Nope, in some cases I can see it, and yet I don't think anyone truely knows when life starts. To use it as a form of birth control is just not right to me. I know some will argue about over population etc etc.....in my eyes murder is murder, we don't have to agree, however, if you guess Christian, you'd be wrong....I've been a solitary Witch for the last 23 years.
I don't think gay marriage is o.k., I don't want the gay agenda taught in school, I think private organizations should be allowed control of their membership. Christian? We covered that already, so on to the homophobe label. I don't care if your gay, I don't care if everyone knows your gay, I think everyone needs someone to love....however actively pushing the gay agenda, or any agenda for that matter, especially when there are children involved I do have a problem with. It is not anyone other than the parents place to intill values in their children, tolerance and acceptance is not something to be taught in school, lets stick with the other parts that are failing. As far as gay marriage, alot of time and money wasted on this effort I'd say. I think marriage shouls stay between a man and a woman....if you want the same rights and priviledges that go with it, I whole heartedly agree, but insisting on the marriage part, nope find another term. So lets see, I want gays to have the same rights....am I still a homophobe?
I hate political correctness, I don't think the FCC is relevant, nor doing it's job anymore......so am I a prude/fundie? Again, we can take Christianity out of the picture. I'm gonna tell ya, I love looking at women, in various states of dress and undress, I've been known to swear occasionaly, I have been involved in some pretty violent incidents in my life, I've done drugs, gambled, drank a hell of alot and had my fun, but I did it as an adult. What passes for programming now on t.v. and the radio is appalling. I know, turn the channel or turn it off.......how about we revert back to acting like decent human beings for a changfe instead? we wonder why the kids of today are screwed up, look at what they are constantly bombarded with now a days. I know it's the parents responsibility, but you can't be with them 24/7, again this is where you have to instill the values in your children, not the school. So, am I still a prude?
I think the teachers unions have failed us and that no child left behind is a farce....I could be a racist, a neocon, or a homophobe on that one. Face it, education anymore is putting the kids out the door for money. I'm sure alot of teachers actually care, but between the teachers union and non functional government programs, kids are doomed. We are more worried about being politically correct in the classroom and whether the non english speaking students have enough tutors, rather than are the kids getting a good education. So since dumbing downschools is bad, or having an agenda based on money is bad in my opinion, yet I want the schools to step up to the plate and actually teach, am I again a racist?
I think the MSM is left biased and owned by the WH.....definately a neocon, right wing teabagging, home grown terrorist. I do think somewhere in the middle east someone of islamic faith is plotting to kill lots of westerners.....I must be a right wing conservative racist Islamaphobe. However, I don't think all muslims are bad, nor terrorists, but some definately are. Again racist or not?

So lets see, I like black music, food and have black relatives, I think gays shouls have equal rights, I don't think all muslims are terrorists, and right now we are planning a circumnavigation, to see some more of the world, before that becomes impossible........Is that multicultural enough, or do I just have atypical "white" life? I think too many people already live a multicultural life and fail to even recognize it, they only see change coming and fear it, without recognizing it's been happening for a long time.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


It looks like you belong in a bunch of boxes.....


I do not know what all this multiculturalism has to do with my OP, but sometimes I am a little slow on the uptake.

I am sure you feel the same way I do about labels and such.

Anyway. Keep away from those boxes, they cause paper cuts.

edit to add-Sorry, I did not place the meaning initially to the multiculturalism component.

I am speaking more than culture and to that political, economic, religious, and other components of the human condition. Everything that defines us of who we are.

Multiculturalism is a component of it and it just went over my head.

[edit on 1/6/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by ziggystrange

 

ziggystrange,
You have the evidence...of a "crime" I suppose. What is the remedy?
Or, back up. What is the charge?
Are you demonstrating your ability to detect evil intentions?
Or, perhaps, you are Josephus?
Recording history, for posterity?

Last time I looked making an ass of yourself was not a crime.

You just did it, and nobody accused you of a crime.

Maybe... Letting your keyboard take you where your intellect can't sustain you.

That's not a crime, just a bad tactic, and no strategy.