ATTENTION Patriots / Birthers / Teabaggers / Whomever - If you did get your Revolution, Then What?

reply to post by ziggystrange


That's because thankfully as of now they are widely unorganized. But give them a charismatic and effective leader and sure as the nose on your face, they will be goose stepping in uniform down the road in "marches".

Of course all of this will be protected by the 1st Amendment, (which incidentally will be the very first freedom once they gain power they will destroy.) Because if you aren't talking their version of freedom you will be their enemy. These "revolutionaries", want America their way, white, and right.

Of course the individual "revolutionary" will overtly deny this as true, but it's the entire point. They don't like anything different from their ideal "Leave It to Beaver" "Happy Days" utopia. Of course unfortunately this utopia of theirs doesn't include anyone that looks or believes differently than they do.

Because anyone that doesn't believe the way they do about what "freedom" means to them, obviously is the enemy, and must be dealt with the only way these people know how, with large caliber rounds.

That is what I have read in these revolutionary threads. A lot of violence, a lot of blood, and no plan for anyone else except the extreme right.

Originally posted by ziggystrange

others would just burn it and sit on their 40 acres with a machine gun pointed at their property line.

And what's wrong with that? How does racist christian blah blah fit in with that? The only reason I could see anyone having a problem with that is if they want to come in for something.

Cant you just wait until I die to scavenge my carcass? What harm is there in leaving me alone? I dont want to control or presume authority over anyone yet everywhere I turn somebody is trying to control and assume authority over me. Why? Why? Why?

It's like being at some sad old folks home and having some jerkoff attendant constantly haranguing you to participate in "fun night." Lifes too damn short to spend it putting up with other peoples crap and bending backwards as to not inconvenience anyone lest feelings be hurt.

My position is Mr. jerkoff attendant I dont want to play your game. Being a being of apparently infinite more compassion that you Mr. attendant I do not expect you to play my game if you do not want to. Now we can live in peace.

I havent thrown any bombs and have done everything I can to close up shop and disappear but everyday bombs from outside come crashing over onto me. I cant ignore them because they'll just run me over and throw me in prison. I cant get up and walk away because there is nowhere to walk away to. So what are my options?

I'm wondering what will be done with political dissidents. Governments change with the ebb and flow of time; like culture they inevitably evolve. Times change, nothing remains static. If a government wishes to remain relevant in the eyes of the people, it must bow to suit them.

Sure, you want to press the reset button. But how will you prevent the changes that are sure to come within only a few generations?

It is really funny to see how all of the control freak backers on this site, keep saying everyone on this site, that are the revolutionaries; will enforce all of these different Orwellian items.

You are missing the point and providing fallacies left and right.

Get this, leave us the frell alone, that is what these revolutionaries want. GET IT!

Leave our money alone, our houses alone, our health care alone.

But you cannot give it up can you. Because you need our stuff and our freedoms to provide for your ORWELLIAN UTOPIA.

Keep it up folks, the hypocrisy is blinding.

JACK BOOTS? Who's wearing the jack boots?

Who is it that wants our freedoms and our stuff?

Jeeeeeeeez.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


What I have been doing, is preparing for the worst,hoping for the best.

reply to post by LordTacos


3% of the population pulled off the American Revolution.

reply to post by yenko13


I agree with everything on this post with one exception.I have no problem
with a homosexual being a teacher.I don't approve of the lifestyle,but
their sexual preferences shouldn't determine what occupation they can
have.

reply to post by Polynomial C


When it comes to voting,people usually vote for the lesser of two evils.
The politicians have their own agendas and we are caught in the middle.

Seems that the post activities of a revolution would be seen in the pre activities of that same revolution. Using this thread as a little crystal ball as a glimpse for what those days and times would be like after a revolution it would pretty much be business as usual.
A concerted effort to throw off chaos, anger, hatred and power crazed megalomaniacs only to run into a new set of shackles of the very same.
Common sense and respect never seem to stay on the ingredient list too long.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by ziggystrange

others would just burn it and sit on their 40 acres with a machine gun pointed at their property line.

And what's wrong with that? How does racist christian blah blah fit in with that? The only reason I could see anyone having a problem with that is if they want to come in for something.

?

On the surface nothing, to answer your first question. But unfortunately there is more to it than appearances.

If you want to live in the USA, then you have to contribute to maintaining it's existence in some way.

If we all were to adopt your position, we would all be warm and cozy for as long as it takes the rest of the world to mobilize their resource to come and enslave all of us. You want us to go back to the stone age in a Nuclear world.

No matter how hard we shut our eyes the world does not go away.
When an Ostrich sticks his head in a hole, he only thinks he's safe.

A small % of the population can do what you want to do, go off the grid without impacting the rest of us, but if too many do it, then the rest of the people are unfairly tasked with your share of maintaining the security of our borders, and your personal security. Even if you agree to be self sufficient to the point of preferring to be victimized than ask for, or accept help from your fellow citizens. You could also fall ill and require long term care. Who pays for that?

In many ways a recluse is just as big a burden on society as a welfare recipient. Surely you can understand that concept.

You use the Internet, that's part of the infrastructure you want to divorce yourself from.

If you live off the land and use no GOV services/resources then all you have to do is pay your property taxes. That seems fair enough to me.

I never called you racist, and as a recluse off the grid, there is not much racism you could practice.

Your Avatar implies you are a Patriot, you say you are some sort of Terrorist, and a Libertarian. But you say you just want to be left alone.

I can personally live with it if you choose to never leave your property and not participate, but I think it's selfish, and not in the American Spirit to be a parasite, even of it's just a little bit of a parasite.

I feel the same way about perennial welfare recipients.
But people in need, with no means of support, like mentally impaired people, the terminally ill, and incapacitated people should not be put out to starve, or die of exposure, Victims of natural disasters need help from the rest of us also.

What in your world they just don't exist?

As a Nation, if we were to do things with each others well being as our primary motivation, we have the means to be the most wealthy, healthy and happy Free Nation the Planet.

But we are wasteful, weak minded and spoiled, and we have no sense of community. We are selfish and greedy. We deplete natural resources and pollute the air we breathe. We are racist, and devious, and our religions make zealots of us all.

Do we need a revolution?.......NO

I think just pulling our heads out of our butts would suffice. I don't want your stuff, and I'd like to keep mine, but if you were hungry, I'd share mine with you. I would also expect you to pitch in.

Not because I have to, but because it's the right thing to do.

You prefer to live in an anarchy thinking somehow you will be left alone.
Freedom, is not free, it's paid for with hard work, sacrifice, compassion, cooperation, and blood. It also costs money in the world we have created and that means Taxes.

I don't hate you, I just disagree with you.

Ziggy

reply to post by fmcanarney


In 1776 that was obviously sufficient. Today, in the USA, if that was possible, we would have legal slavery, and illegal aliens would be able to stage a coup and take over.

Apples and Oranges.

Ziggy

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
And how exactly would you do that? Would you institute martial law in order to make these changes quickly and then later revoke martial law or would you go through the processes we have in place now? Who would Congress be comprised of? Would they be representatives of the people? How would they be elected? Would they be elected or would they be appointed?

See what I mean? I could go on and on...

You pretty much captured the essence of all that is wrong with the patriot movement. These are people who have no understanding of what exactly it takes to run a country of 300+ million people. Colonel Jack Jacobs was on MSNBC yesterday and he said that one thing a lot of these Islamic terrorists have in common is that they believe there are (or look for) simple solutions to complex problems. These patriots think that all they have to do is "take the power back" and whatever product results will be infinitely better than what they have right now.

Yes, I did just compare the thinking of the "patriots" to that of the Islamic terrorists. The Department of Homeland Security seldom gets anything right, but they were spot on on this topic.

Its funny that now that they get slapped in the face with the reality of what they're asking for, they have no clothes, just like the emperor.

The second part of the equation is that for all their supposed opposition to communism, fascism and socialism, if their plans were to come to fruition, the patriots would ultimately have to create a fascist government and society in order to create and maintain the system of government they desire. Its not as if those who opposed the Weimar state in the 1930s believed they were the evil oppressors. But that's exactly what they became because they let their fear and hatred consume them. I know I'm sounding like a Jedi Master, but its the truth. You fear something enough, you have to become it to believe you can destroy it.

Now, that's not to say that all those who oppose the government or the obama administration think like Islamic terrorists. But there is an OBVIOUS difference between those who are honest, loyal opposers and the conspiratorial, dishonest, fear-driven folks, many of whom, regretably, roam ATS.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Seems that the post activities of a revolution would be seen in the pre activities of that same revolution. Using this thread as a little crystal ball as a glimpse for what those days and times would be like after a revolution it would pretty much be business as usual.
A concerted effort to throw off chaos, anger, hatred and power crazed megalomaniacs only to run into a new set of shackles of the very same.
Common sense and respect never seem to stay on the ingredient list too long.

Bingo! Star for you.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

In this case apparently, worse than the old boss.


Thanks for posting
Ziggy

reply to post by ziggystrange

Originally posted by ziggystrange
Freedom, is not free, it's paid for with hard work, sacrifice, compassion, cooperation, and blood. It also costs money in the world we have created and that means Taxes.

"Freedom is not free..." I've heard so many patriots say this, but their actions and ideology contradict that notion, just as you have pointed out. To them, its just a punchline.

These people have no idea what it takes to run a country.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
And how exactly would you do that? Would you institute martial law in order to make these changes quickly and then later revoke martial law or would you go through the processes we have in place now? Who would Congress be comprised of? Would they be representatives of the people? How would they be elected? Would they be elected or would they be appointed?

See what I mean? I could go on and on...

You pretty much captured the essence of all that is wrong with the patriot movement. Snip

Its funny that now that they get slapped in the face with the reality of what they're asking for, they have no clothes, just like the emperor.

The second part of the equation is that for all their supposed opposition to communism, fascism and socialism, if their plans were to come to fruition, the patriots would ultimately have to create a fascist government and society in order to create and maintain the system of government they desire.

snip

Now, that's not to say that all those who oppose the government or the obama administration think like Islamic terrorists. But there is an OBVIOUS difference between those who are honest, loyal opposers and the conspiratorial, dishonest, fear-driven folks, many of whom, regretably, roam ATS.

Brilliant! Another Star post.

You are both dead on point. That is what we have seen in this thread. There is plenty wrong with the current administration, but it's a pittance compared to the stated goals of the so called Patriots etc.

So far the reset button is looking more like the self destruct button.

Thanks for sharing
Ziggy

reply to post by ziggystrange


I like your answer to thisguy and gave you a star. One problem how do you know the new boss is the same as the old boss? He is too young to have been so corrupted or a part of the old guard. He may be playing along, because right now he is outgunned and just waiting for his time to divert from business as usual... Either way we are the boss of him or her as the case may be. I mean in theoretical reality, unfortunately not actual reality.





[edit on 2-1-2010 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
IF THIS HAPPENS YOU WILL HAVE WAR ON US SOIL! ONE THAT IS UNIMANGINABLE!! There are 350+million in this country, do the math.

It will end in a wimper as quickly as it begins. You will not see the geek solder executing death upon you from behind a computer console thousands of miles away. You will not see where the JDAMs, Hellfire missles and MOABs are coming from. You will not see the robotic solders until it is too late. You will not see an enemy to take aim at. You will not know where to run.

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
If We the People deserve another chance and we are blessed by GOD...

We the People elected the current administration. Your imaginary friend cannot help you. There are no gods.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Lilitu]

Alright OP, time for my response, see if you can pick it apart so easily. Or if you will even try.

1) Reinstate the Constitution; any and all statutes that restrict or go against the given rights of the States or the Citizens are instantly abolished.

2) Institute a Nationalized banking system controlled by Congress (like it was meant to) and all profits from said system to be given directly to the states directly and split according to each states direct deposits in said State's Banks. Monetary system to be based on a conglomerate of commodities such as oil, gold, corn, soybean and other type commodities with real world value.

3) Institute a time type regulation of the stock market. No multiple trading of the same stock on the same day type thing. No mass manipulation of stocks like the Goldman Sachs computer software allowed even near the stock market.

4) All assets of the Federal Reserve and any and all banks and individuals that have stolen money from the American People (e.g. Paulson with his sale of GS stock at a value of $300 million) to be used to pay off as much of the debt as possible.

5) Instant removal of all Federal Agencies that are null and void in a Constitutional Government. That right there will eliminate 70% of the Federal Problem. Oh, and all contracts that exist right now between the Fed and Private Corps to be reassessed and open bidding will be reinstituted. No favoritism allowed.

6) Removal of all our troops from all foreign soil except where they want us to stay. If they want us to stay, they will pay us 75% of all operational costs. This to be phased out over a 5 year period. We will draw back to a defensible perimeter and we will quit our Empire type control of the world.

7) All illegal immigrants will be given a 6 month window to sell all assets they do not want to take with them. They will be allowed to hold their current positions as long as that window remains open. We will pass a law that will give a fine of .5% of value of the business for hiring an illegal after this time. Also for each illegal hired, the corporate owner and board will be given a 60 day minimum sentence. Each additional offense the punishment will be tripled. End of problem with illegal aliens. And we did not even have to punish the poor illegals.

8) All future immigration will be only allowed as placement for employment. If unemployment is high, no immigration will be allowed.

9) All companies that want to be global, so be it. Your products will be taxed to an equivilent amount as if they were being made here. Foreign products will be allowed for the same restrictions. Any tariffs placed on our products are fine as long as they follow the same guidelines. Otherwise an exact tarriff will be placed on that countries material as well.

10) Energy exploration will be allowed unabated but all energy profits originally going to the Fed will go to the people instead. All avenues of alternative energy will be explored.

11) All secrets not directly necessary for the absolute safety of the nation will be released immediately. Total transparency will be required and any and all attempts to circumnavigate this will end in jail time and expulsion from the country. FINAL.

12) Corporations are not people they will not be given the same rights as people.

13) Complete idiocy like the Monsanto killer gene GMO's will be outlawed. All the crazy agricultural regulations will be reassessed.

14) Term limits, balanced budget, and other measures will be installed to control out of control career criminals.

15) The Original 13th Amendment will be researched and if found to be thrown out illegally, it will be reinstated along with the one they replaced it with. If you want an explanation-GOOGLE IT!

16) Corporate laws and regulations will be completely reassessed. And ALL CORPORATE LAWS PERTAINING TO CITIZEN'S WILL BE REMOVED!

17) Would you like me to go on?


edit to fix gramma

And to post this link to the thread based on this response-
If the Conservative Movement succeeds then What? My response!


[edit on 1/2/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by whatukno

 

I like your answer to thisguy and gave you a star. One problem how do you know the new boss is the same as the old boss? He is too young to have been so corrupted or a part of the old guard. He may be playing along, because right now he is outgunned and just waiting for his time to divert from business as usual... Either way we are the boss of him or her as the case may be.
I mean in theoretical reality, unfortunately not actual reality.

Sorry if I'm not the person you addressed.

When I said "The new boss" I meant the one picked by the revolution we are discussing.

Obama is the duly elected POTUS, and like you say, we don't have enough data to evaluate his Presidency yet.

All the people passing judgment on, and blaming everything on Obama are premature in their assessment.

We elected Obama, he earned his crack at the problem, and is doing pretty good so far. If he turns out to be no good, like you said we are his boss, and we can fire him.
But he has not been accepted as POTUS by the side that lost the election. He has met with nothing but obstructionism from both the Republicans, and the Democrats.

Never before has a newly elected President come under the type of character assassination, and false accusations being flung at Obama.

The jury is out on the result of his Presidency, but he has more on his plate than any American President in History, and less by-partisan or partisan support than most.

If the US is not destroyed in the next 7 years, Obama will probably have been our greatest leader to date. What's at stake right now in this world is everything.

If he were a Surgeon. It's like we brought in a dying patient bleeding from every orifice, and then we all start yelling. If you can't save him, then you did it. Others are screaming, "you're killing him", and the nurses and other Doctors are too afraid of getting blamed for the patient dying, so they act like they are helping out, but won't take responsibility for their part in the operation. May be a poor analogy but I think it fits.

We better hope Obama succeeds, if he fails, we are all screwed.

I do think he is doing what he can, with what he has.
Am I 100% happy? No.

Do I think it's time to grade him on accomplishments? No.

Do I think he can succeed? Yes but he needs our help.

Do I think he will succeed? Unsure that he will, but I hope he does for my sake and yours.

Thanks for contributing, and nice to meet you.

Ziggy

Originally posted by ziggystrange

If we all were to adopt your position, we would all be warm and cozy for as long as it takes the rest of the world to mobilize their resource to come and enslave all of us. You want us to go back to the stone age in a Nuclear world.

We wouldnt all adopt my position. Freedom is essentially perpetual toil and a shortened lifespan. Many may rush to try it out but once they realise the actual cost they'll run back to their shackles.

No matter how hard we shut our eyes the world does not go away.
When an Ostrich sticks his head in a hole, he only thinks he's safe.

I dont have any delusions about safety. As evident by the fact that I realise even now we are not safe. No military, police or fire department can ever keep anyone safe. It's all an illusion. And if out there some nation has missiles trained on me well what is there to do? I'll die. That doesnt concern me very much. Dying before I am able to live free concerns me.

You could also fall ill and require long term care. Who pays for that?

Most likely I would die long before the need of "long-term care." Should I live into the age of frailty just let me die. I dont want any care. If I ever wander out asking for it feel free to shoot me in the head and ransack my corpse.

In many ways a recluse is just as big a burden on society as a welfare recipient. Surely you can understand that concept.

A burden in that I am not paying for a bunch of crap I never asked for n the first place? In that case they are making their own burden by not allowing me to opt out.

You use the Internet, that's part of the infrastructure you want to divorce yourself from.

To pay property tax I need an income. I am at work. A job I am forced to have just to live. Being at my job means I am not able to care for the animals and field I once had. Means I need to purchase goods to survive. Which means I need more income to pay more tax.

If you live off the land and use no GOV services/resources then all you have to do is pay your property taxes. That seems fair enough to
me.

It's impossible to pay that tax without an income. See above.

Your Avatar implies you are a Patriot, you say you are some sort of Terrorist, and a Libertarian. But you say you just want to be left alone.

Terrorist as identified by the MIAC document. Did you miss the fun of that report over the Summer? The word is "Librarian." Which is the capacity in which I work. Yes, I want to be left alone.

...but I think it's selfish, and not in the American Spirit to be a parasite, even of it's just a little bit of a parasite.

I fail to see how it would be parasitic. I would take nothing from anyone. If someone is forcing things on mr at the barrel of a gun as the government is am I really being parasitic?

As a Nation, if we were to do things with each others well being as our primary motivation, we have the means to be the most wealthy, healthy and happy Free Nation the Planet.

I would never be healthy wealthy happy or free under these circumstances. I suppose I simply wouldnt count or just be ignored until I landed in prison.

I think just pulling our heads out of our butts would suffice. I don't want your stuff, and I'd like to keep mine, but if you were hungry, I'd share mine with you. I would also expect you to pitch in.

Which would be your own fault. You cant offer something that was never asked for then expect reciprocation. That's like committing rape and expecting the victim to willingy give you another go after the rape had occurred.

Not because I have to, but because it's the right thing to do.

That's subjective and self-righteous.

You prefer to live in an anarchy thinking somehow you will be left alone.
Freedom, is not free, it's paid for with hard work, sacrifice, compassion, cooperation, and blood. It also costs money in the world we have created and that means Taxes.

Where exactly have the left the impression that I dont understand the work involved? And I didnt create this world. I want no part of it. Never did. Yet I cant get out without being thrown in prison or committing suicide. I wont waste my life with suicide because a bunch of dependents and slaves wich to crush everyone under the same boot thats crushing them. Even a farmer in the middle of nowhere.