Astrology: The Portal of Understanding

reply to post by shakespear1


I looked up one vedic natal chart and it seemed to of used only the traditional 12 signs.

Im not sure if they use the tropical zodiac reading or if they take observance to the change of the sun and the sings.

Originally posted by shakespear1
Well you guys have me in a quandary.

I just checked mine on the site mentioned and it says I am a Libra. I thought I was a Scorpio.

I read the general description of each and find both describe the evident characteristics I have. Libra almost seems much closer.

So would a Vedic Natal analysis be better?

Look at an Ephemeris to determine what sign your Sun is in. They are on the internet. You need your time and place of birth to determine it in terms of where it is in your chart by degree. Go to Astro.com. They use an Ephemeris.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by seagrass]

reply to post by seagrass


Here is the problem though seagrass...

Lets say my son who was born on Dec. 16th goes to astro.com looking for his solar sign. Since they only acknowledge 12 signs, he will be told he is Sagittarius and would be given a horoscope for such. Now even though the planets and moon are in their proper places for how the energies are playing into effect....the person still is distorted through this false sign.

So yes there is some truth there...lets say that it gives information to a Virgo that Saturn is in their sign and how this is effecting them. But if that person is not a true Virgo, then what good does that do them? Or lets say a person all of their life thought they were a Libra....according to tropical zodiac info. that has been passed on to them...but yet this person is really a Virgo and the fact that Saturn is in Virgo could really be effecting them but yet they would have no clue of such things...for all they know, they are Libra.

This isnt even how I use stars as a tool, as in for horoscopes....I see them more as a map of self and we should seek out the archetypes of all the signs, within us. But it was pretty disappointing to think all of those articles I read for years and years about me being a Virgo....was based on old information about the rising of the sun.

There are people (Ophiuchus) that cant even get a real reading hardly at all because its ignored that the sun rises in this sign......even though it rises in this sign more days then it does Scorpio, an original of the zodiac. So what does a sign have to do to get noticed?

What about sites that use a equal segment of time for each sign...even though the amount of days the sun is in a sign is different for each....do you not think that such things should matter.

My point to begin with really wasnt about the planets and such....it was about the signs and how many dont even know the sign the sun rose in at the time of their birth.

Do you just shrug this as nothing?

[edit on 3-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

You can use any astronomy program or go to heavensabove.com to see that on Dec. 16 the sun did not rise in Sag. but yet it rose in Ophiuchus. I Just dont see how easily this is ignored by others who say they observe the stars.

If you dont want to download software or a program...go to the site above, click on the sun under the astronomy section...you can click on previous to go back to early December to see that the sun really does rise in a sign that is not considered by most astrologist.

reply to post by shakespear1


If there is a site giving true signs and readings, for all 13 signs...I would love to hear about it. I was meaning to look more into that vedic reading you suggested and just havent gotten to it with enough time to make an opinion.

I always say, each to their own...but I really feel that solar signs have gotten lost in the dust of astrology.

oh, I see without even reading the thread, you are hung up on the 13 signs. I follow the oldest traditions because I trust them more than contemporary ones. I agree that sometimes there are oddities in astrology. It is meant as a tool for looking for similarities and possibilities...so called coincidence. Never used as a cut and dried science. If you believe there are 13 signs then it would take a lot of investigation over the years to convince me. Like centuries. But if there are 12 I suppose one more can't hurt.

Originally posted by seagrass
oh, I see without even reading the thread, you are hung up on the 13 signs. I follow the oldest traditions because I trust them more than contemporary ones. I agree that sometimes there are oddities in astrology. It is meant as a tool for looking for similarities and possibilities...so called coincidence. Never used as a cut and dried science. If you believe there are 13 signs then it would take a lot of investigation over the years to convince me. Like centuries. But if there are 12 I suppose one more can't hurt.

Lets start at square one. This is what I had to do when I discovered all of this. I didnt want to be a Leo, I had been Virgo all my life....but also, I am not one to must accept things because they are comfortable, I need logical reasons why I would be a Virgo or even Leo.

What is a birth sign/sun sign? It is the sign the sun rises in at ones birth.

The old traditions that you say you use because you 'trust' them more....were based and then fixed on the position of the stars close to 2000 years ago. Every 72 years, the sun moves 1 degree through the signs. This is why we are not forever in the age of Aries....the start of the traditional zodiac wheel. We have moved through Aries, and are now very much in the age of Pisces. Everyone waits the age of Aquarius which is still several hundred years away. If we look back through history, we can see the change of the age of Taurus into the age of Aries (the golden calf that was built by the people of Moses). What happens above always seems to effect what is below. The people always have a hard time transitioning into a new age.

The ages are based on what sign the sun is in on the spring equinox. Use the heavenabove.com or the Stellarium and fast forward to the spring equinox date, you will see we are still in Pisces. On the Stellarium, you can jump back 2000 years and see how the sun has moved, you can go back until you see the sun move from Aries to Pieces, around 2000 years ago. You can then (while you are back in time) go to December....watch how the sun moves into the new sign Ophiuchus. You can right now go to heavensabove.com, go to the sun under astronomy, go to 'previous' and keep going until you get to lets say, Dec. 10. What sign does it tell you the sun rose and set in for that day?

IF you want to use traditional methods, then you should observe the changes....as the ancients did. The ones that fixed the zodiac as if it is a calendar are not the ancients...nor the 'traditional' uses of the zodiac. It was considered a precious understanding amongst the ancients.

While through our regular year, the sun seems to move forward through the signs....but for the ages of time, the sun seems to move backward through the zodiac. For the yearly role of the signs, the sun was in Ophiuchus, moves into Sagittarius, moves into Capricorn, moves into Aquarius, moves into Pisces, moves into Aries, then Taurus...and onward....this is through the year the sun moves this way.

For the ages, it goes backward....notice that in the yearly role, the sun rises Aquarius, Pisces, then Aries...but for the ages, the role would go....Aries, Pisces, then Aquarius.

I dont know if knowing all of this has done me any good besides being very biased towards any astrologist.

Like you said, it would take convincing. I studied ever nook and cranny, it was time consuming, for I had to watch the path of the sun ( the true path of today) every day for a couple of years. The synchronisities that occurred as I discovered all of this was almost heavenly....other worldly.....I felt the stars were overjoyed at being discovered again.

Try it this way....try proving there is not 13 signs. Dont just take my word for it....but also, dont go telling others there is only 12 signs when you are not sure yet.

If you are able to download Stellarium...this will show you all what I say is true. If you go to heavenabove.com and fast forward through every single day for the rise of the sun, this will also show you the signs have changed and the days for each sign is different today compared to what it was 2000 years ago. Over 80 % of the 'traditional signs' do not match the days anymore.

Take a traditional zodiac...write down the days you believe the sun is in each sign (be specific). Now go to heavenabove.com. Go through each day for the sun under astronomy....you will be baffled at how off it all is today by using the 'traditional' so called zodiac. The real traditional use of the circle int he sky was through observation, not something that tries to 'fix' the circle.

I really hope you are listening now...I hope you check this all out.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Reply to LeoVirgo:

Couldn't you just move every sign counterclockwise one to get the new alignments (because it's been about 2000 years since they were fixed)?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by ForAiur]

reply to post by ForAiur


You are getting the idea yes...BUT

When the signs got 'fixed' their correct amount of days per sign were not correct. Each sign was given the same amount of space when some signs were not behind the sun for the same amount of time. The perfect example of this is Scorpio....Scorpio houses the sun for only 7-8 days. Some signs start in the middle of the month....but yet traditional fixed signs are given one month per each sign.

I have a couple of pictures of some zodiac that I can show...I will have to figure out how to get them on here. I know I have to upload them to my media...but I dont know how to embed them on the post without giving a link. Ill work on that...it will show how some signs need different amounts of days.

My best
LV

reply to post by Bushido Kanji


Hey,astrology is interesting...I read much about my sign, decades and much more.
Some of the basic of a sign is always in you....I found myself on my sign...but it´s also important when and where you´re born....
I wil read more here...
Thanks for sharing this...

I know astrology is real because I can see in some people that I know very well what star sign they are, I can simply feel it and see it by the way the move act and talk.

I have "guessed the star signes of about 5 people in the 7 time iv tried "guessing". I only will tell you what star sign you are if I have a big sens.

BtW I don't quite believe in the daily star sign thing just the basic overal elements of specific people and there signs.

It is something I found out on my own and I know it is true.

We all carry each sign within us. It is an overall archetype of man, but yet we seem to show more attributes of a specific sign.

I do believe the days of each sign make a difference. I have experience both truths...the traditional signs (the ones you say you are seeing in people) as well as the signs that are through true observance. Often, from what I have experienced in myself and others, the sign that is observed brings forth a deeper spirit from ta person, then the traditional sign.

Some call it an awakening.

Did you check your sign on the link I gave earlier in the thread...? Just curious....

LV

OK OK....here we go...now we can really discuss this stuff. Putting pics up was easier then I though!

We have 3 different circles here.

The tropical-Is the main zodiac in use for given signs to people as well as horoscopes. This is the circle that became fixed a couple thousand of years ago. It gave each sign equal amount of space. This circle was pretty close to being correct, 2000 years ago, with a few errors.

The Sidereal zodiac is a little closer to the true positions of today....being that it moves the signs a little closer to the true position of today. But still, each sign is only given equal amounts.

The astronomical circle- You will notice that all signs do not have the same amounts of space, for the sun does not rise in them all the same amounts of time. You will also notice, 13 signs.

Having the 3 circles together like this shows a person, how much things have changed in the last 2000 years. It will only keep changing, this cant be fixed. If you tried to use the astronomical circle 2000 years from today, it wont be perfect, but some of it would work.

Some peoples signs dont change, my mother is a true Taurus...she is Taurus on the tropical, sidereal, and astronomical.
[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Here is another that includes 13 signs.




This image is not as worthy as the first image I posted because it does not have the clock centered with the north south east west positions, for the equinox's and the solstice's....but it still shows the correct amounts of space for the 13 signs.

In the first image, ...we are half way around the clock yes, but have not reached the age of Aquarius just yet. The ages are determined by the Vernal Equinox (spring equinox).



[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

www.montgomerycollege.edu...

Here is a site that shows the changes that I have been talking about.

I know it can get confusing...but when you must observe something that changes over time, it takes study and time and patients.

your site says I am a Gemini. I have Jupiter in Gemini. Which can account for my Gemini qualities. I am a Cancer traditionally. How does this site create a birth chart based on ages and sun movement/calculations alone?

reply to post by seagrass


It doesnt. It is pretty much left up to the individual to figure it out...at least so far from my experiences.

I think once one figures out their sun sign, then like you pointed out, one can use the info from some astrology sites and some astronomy sites. I have noticed that when a planet is in Ophiuchus....astrology sites will not acknowledge this.

I personally dont worry about to what degree something is within a house. I have used Stellarium to figure my own little birth chart, as a general reference. I know its not perfect by any means.

To do natal charts for people, each chart would take alot of time for each person. It would be way more then a full time job to do this for a living.

So like you said, we can get a general idea of what planets are influencing our sign (if we know our sign). We can also get general ideas of where the planets are in other signs and how this influenced us. But if someone was born, lets say with Jupiter in Ophiuchus, they would not know it unless they used an astronomy software, for the astrology sites (most of them) would tell you Jupiter was in Sag.

Are you starting to see why I was so hung up on the star signs? I wonder if it is meant to be this way, like fate. Because what this does is causes a person to seek out the info themselves, learning along the way, instead of someone else telling them what they are and who they are. I think our stars are something we should use as self discovery....does that make sense> ?

Ive been kinda doing all of this learning and figuring for the last few years on my own, I would love to find others to help me figure it out better so people could come up with a fairly decent chart for themselves.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LeoVirgo]

If anyone finds a site that includes Ophiuchus as a sun sign and also tells when a planet of the moon is in Ophiuchus....I would love love love to hear about it.

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reply to post by Bushido Kanji


Don't be sad at being a Goat - I like being a Goat! (We're supposed to be generally lucky you know.)
Incidently, my starsign is Virgo which relates directly to the Hermit in Tarot (see avatar) and my chinese sign is a Goat so you can kind of see in which general direction my personality is headed ...