Chronology of Creation in the Bible... it doesn't start in Genesis!

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

The Angelic fall was not before the creation of man, but after, probably around a 100 years after. Satan was jealous of God's creation man.

Well, I have been away for sometime, but reviewing this post, it appeared no one addressed your thoughts regarding this matter.

Since it is a Chronology Based Topic, it is relevant to consider this aspect.

Personally, I understood the "Fall" occured in what has been noted here previously. It took place between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

My Reasoning comes from Genesis 1:2 itself. " 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep........". Terms offered here, contradict all other terms utilized within the Bible to describe anything GOD had or has done. Some may point to the events outlined in Genesis 6 or even to the events surrounding the destruction of Sodom and imply the actions may well be evidence alone, but no where has GOD "created" anything that was other than perfect or pleasing to God. The balance of Genesis Chapter 1 is even clear in respects to this.

So we could then address this in two manners.

1: We can seek those whom terms like "without form, and void" applies to in the scriptures

or

2: Test the translation for accuracy from the "Original" Text.

Strangely enough, we can point to Satan, (Just used for a Title/Name) as one which those terms would quite fittingly be associated with, and we can find the Translation offered may infact have a completely alternative choice of words, which expresses this event (Genesis 1:2) in a slightly different manner.

We can use the following without any intended twisting from the Original Text.

Alternative Genesis 1:2 "and the earth BECAME a WASTE and a DESOLATION,............"

In this case, we have an observed conflict. How is it the Earth BECAME a waste and a desolation?

My view would suggest, this was the "Fall".

In support of this view, Scripture expresses Satan was corrupted prior to his first act or scene, that being the seduction of Eve and the result of this, Cain. He was already doing mischief.

Even in this Post, many other examples of this have been expressed, so I trust you can understand what and where these views can originate.

Another consideration is the 6th Day. Mankind, both male and female, are instructed what foods the earth is providing for them and how they are to live in a stewardship with the earth. Strangely they are also directed to be fruitful and multiply and to replenish the earth. Replenishing denotes an effort to regain levels of something that had been met or measured on or during, a previous period.

I also have this other strange notion, that on the 6th Day, the storyline revolves the creation of something that is expressed in a familiar sense. Man.

"Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,......".

Now, I see this as being what it is, namely being a RE-creation event.

Two aspects are clear. Man, at some point in the past inhabited the earth, and despite the event that lead to Man in the past, he was not in the Image of GOD and the Angels.

So, I would suggest the timeframe of the "Fall" would predate the "Events" Outlined in the 1st Chapter of Genesis with the exception of course of Genesis 1:1, which was the begining of everything.

Now, your point about the resentment Satan and the fallen had for man, (mankind) is accurate. Satan is still jealous of man today. We are afforded choice, with redemption and forgiveness being granted, when sought. Satan has no choice, and has a oneway ticket to his ultimate destruction, The Pit. No Forgiveness, no redemption.

I hope that the late response offers some views to consider.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Locoman8


I did enjoy your article and agree with much of what you have said with some differences. Without argument I do disagree with your understanding that Satan is the authority of this planet.

The Bible explains that Satan retains his authority over this planet. Notice what Satan told Christ: Luke 4:5-6 "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish'"

It is true that Satan believes that he has the authority but in all reality he is a liar and the father of the lie. Satan only has power if God gives him that power. The face of the earth was given to Adam and Eve as is stated in Genesis and I see no other account that it has been taken from them. --

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

The Hebrew manuscripts differ from your quote of Job --

The earth is Satan's realm. The book of Job records God asking Satan: Job 1:7 "From where do you come?" Satan's reply was, "From going to and fro on the earth and from walking back and forth on it"

The Hebrew manuscripts tell us that Satan walked in the earth and not on the earth.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Whence comest thou?' Then Satan answered the LORD, and said: 'From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.'


Satan wants mankind to believe that he is the god of this world but cannot become god of this world without mankind relinquishing the deed to this property.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Satan is the prince of the power of the air but as of today he is not in any authority on the earth without the permission of God.

As I said before, this is only my belief and I could be wrong in my understanding this in this manner. I enjoyed your article.

reply to post by Shane

Two aspects are clear. Man, at some point in the past inhabited the earth, and despite the event that lead to Man in the past, he was not in the Image of GOD and the Angels.

I do agree with you that some where in the past that a creation or creations did exist. I do not believe that they were of Adam and Eve's seed but were of another substance.

Time as we understand time did not exist till the fourth era of creation and prior to the creation of our time there was no understanding of our time. How could anyone declare something before it exists? We are told that the world existed simply because we know that we exist on this world but to declare that the world is 14 billion years old is pure nonsense. We have nothing to prove that the world is even 1 billion years old simply because our time was not produced till the fourth era of placement.

Before time was created for Adam and Eve there could have been prior creations of creatures and they could very well be ages old but we cannot determine the age before the age was created, That would be dishonest to pretend that we know age before age was presented to us.

In other words 500 years ago neither you or I existed in this warp of time. We were of the earthy substance but not in the order as we are now. In a few years we both will once again not be in this order but will return to our elements of the earth.

The scientist such as a biologist who declares the earth as 14 billion years old is a person who does not believe the Genesis account and therefore is not obligated to state that he or she does not really know or understand time. They believe that what they see now is what has always been or evolved from that which they do not really understand. They use the materials which are present believing that those materials have always existed in the same order. They really cannot prove their own belief any more than you or I can prove our belief and they cannot prove where their substances came from in which they use.

If the earth was chaotic just as Genesis tells us, then we know that the order of material may not have been as it is today. Before the flood of Noah it is believed that the very air that we breath has been changed as well as the electromagnetic fields have been changed. Core samples from the frozen poles tell us that we had severe climate changes as well as chemical changes and this does point to the fact that if the earth is billions of years old then we are absolutely ignorant of what it really was.

Our biblical account of Genesis can be interpreted in many different ways but it does not state that the heaven and earth was created in our understanding of time The Hebrew bible leaves much to be discussed and with that thought would like to ask the readers a question.

The heaven and earth were created as a pot and a lid. The lid being the heaven and the pot being the earth. After the earth and its heaven were created the Genesis account tells us that the heavenly host was then created for a light to glorify the earth. The heavenly host is all of the stars etc which adorn the creation. All of this was created within the membrane of a universe. The question is -- Was the universe a creation apart from the earth and the heavens?

The reason I ask is this -- There is a growing belief that Mars had or has creatures living on the planet. The Genesis account does not say that there were not other planets at the creation of the world and its heaven but only says that the stars were put into the heaven for light. Could it be possible that before this earth and its heaven were created that the universe existed with other planets inside the universe and with their own creations? Genesis does not say that the universe nor Mars was not created at the time that God created the earth and its own heaven. Could it be that Mars was in the universe with its own creation before earth and its creation? I cannot see where this would contradict the Genesis account. What say you?

Originally posted by Seede
The question is -- Was the universe a creation apart from the earth and the heavens?

What say you?

Sorry for delaying this. Finally have a Conx that appears stable and just reviewing some of the old posts now.

You asked.

In the Beginning, GOD Created the Heaven and the Earth.

Mars, Jupiter, The Milkway, Sirrus, the Hunter (Orion), Hailey's Comet and everything we can see today, using items like the Hubble Telescope would be taken into account right now, Genesis 1:1.

Was that "creation" inclusive to astroids? I think that could be argued, since I believe they are parts of Items that have been destroyed cosmically at some point in the past.

And Science is quite clear, this earth is 4.5 Billion years old, according to research done in this area.

None of this is contrary to what the Scriptures offer.

It is contrary to what the Dogmas, Doctrines and Theologies MAN has attached and used to over-ride the Biblical Account, but that will never change, short of a Global Change, which some think is around the corner.

Now, with that said, you bring the Mars question out. I have not heard anything that Richard Hoagland has offered us that seems unreasonable. Was there life on Mars? Somebody, (who, I haven't a Clue) has made some stuff on that planet. When, who knows?

I could speculate, but that's the best I could offer. And I will in Brief..........

The Fallen.

Hope that assisted in your answering your question. I do not think that maybe what you expected for a reply, but that is my Educated Answer. You may dismiss the Speculated aspected though, if you wish

Ciao

Shane

originally posted by: Seede
reply to post by Locoman8

 

I did enjoy your article and agree with much of what you have said with some differences. Without argument I do disagree with your understanding that Satan is the authority of this planet.

The Bible explains that Satan retains his authority over this planet. Notice what Satan told Christ: Luke 4:5-6 "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish'"

It is true that Satan believes that he has the authority but in all reality he is a liar and the father of the lie. Satan only has power if God gives him that power. The face of the earth was given to Adam and Eve as is stated in Genesis and I see no other account that it has been taken from them. --

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

The Hebrew manuscripts differ from your quote of Job --

The earth is Satan's realm. The book of Job records God asking Satan: Job 1:7 "From where do you come?" Satan's reply was, "From going to and fro on the earth and from walking back and forth on it"

The Hebrew manuscripts tell us that Satan walked in the earth and not on the earth.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Whence comest thou?' Then Satan answered the LORD, and said: 'From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.'


Satan wants mankind to believe that he is the god of this world but cannot become god of this world without mankind relinquishing the deed to this property.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Satan is the prince of the power of the air but as of today he is not in any authority on the earth without the permission of God.

As I said before, this is only my belief and I could be wrong in my understanding this in this manner. I enjoyed your article.

Thank you for your post. The reason I speak of Satan as the god of this world is because the bible actually said it. God has allowed Satan power over this world as you can read in Job. Either way, thanks for your contribution to my thread.