War has been declared! Against the American People

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by whatukno

 

Detroit is a fracking nice suburb compared to where I went to college.

Ever hear of East St. Louis? Cahokia Illinois is right entwined with it. Went their for college for my first 2 years.

No cops, no garbage collection. Hell.

And what I meant by Anarchy is at the federal level. If you have federal control, where can you move?

If you have no federal rule, capital will make the rules directly, I don't believe that what is good for the richest converts to good policy for the rest.

If you are aware of this process I doubt see how you can advocate it, at least now elite whims are filtered and buffered. If big business could they would dictate a self serving system worse then the current one. Benzene in all liquids, lead in all finishes, 100% irradiation of all food... The founding fathers wrote the constitution in an era of negotiation of contract, in those times business was a two sided affair, AGREED upon terms and conditions were normalcy. Now it is one sided, access and the entire market place is not negotiable, they set their terms, create self serving recourse and treat consumers like roaches. At this point the standard is roaches across the board, sound business's die because their standards and ethics cannot compete with the efficiency and ruthlessness of cattle operations. Race to the bottom, ironically, just like the effects of broad and complete communism. Same results, cheap crap and a nation indentured to itself just the same.

The Goddamn robot call centers are a direct symptom of this, they give you the parameters of what you cannot and cannot change, effect, protest," don't like it, WTF can you do about it biotch? Robot bitch will just say, "I'm sorry I did not understand you, I'm sorry call back another time..."

The robot should just say "Eat _____ and die" - but the pretending is what gets me

reply to post by whatukno


What ineffectual back peddling is this? It has been stated more than enough times in this thread that voting is not the only recourse by which the people have to take back control of the government they ordained. Your continual insistence that this is the only recourse by which the people have to handle the criminals they elected reveals your position quite clearly and it ain't with the people pal.

Of course, your remarks about stupid people requiring legislation to protect them from themselves also revealed your agenda. You have attempted to present yourself as a thinker and intellectual in this thread as opposed to Endisnighe's admitted emotionalism. At least my brother Endisnighe is willing to admit his proclivities, you on the other hand, continue to hide behind the mask of reasonableness while all the while advocating helplessness and subservience to a criminal government.

This is your right to do so, as you have the right to express your opinions freely. I also have that same right and openly and proudly express mine. You are no more than a loyalist to the Crown of England or any other tyranny who would subject people to the whims of a ruler. Too bad, as you clearly have a gift for intelligence. Would that intelligence were used for something greater than self serving vanity. It would be better to have you on the side of freedom where your intelligence would be better served, but if not, then good we know that tyrants have such prevaricators who willingly advocate slavery and subservience in the name of something far less.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Excellent point Janky Red.

If people were to skim some of my posts I feel the Mega Corps are just as bad, if not worse, than the Federal Government.

Break'm up like AT&T was. Monopolies are bad. So is the corporate oligarchy our government has become.

I knew you would sooner or later agree with me. I have a way of growing on folk. You know, the weird cousin or that bad foot fungus.

Whatukno is right though. I have been drinking this evening. That is usually when I get riled up when cussing and discussing.

I think we agree on the results of the remedy.
But it is the cause and the proposed remedies that screw it up for all of us.
We need to bust up the monopoly in DC, the only lobby is the constituency, no bribes, deals, back patting, vacations. You answer to the individuals, the influence of money should be step 1. Each state should each rent a building and ensure a constant stream of Americans are keeping the stupid politicians occupied 24/7 - 365 - use a little state lotto revenue to fund and literally out number the lobbyist with presence. The politicians will NOT cut off their guilder enablers, so we help them out.

Your radical, but you are not 100% unreasonable and you don't straw-man/deflect, i dig that Fungi

reply to post by Janky Red


But Janky, capital always flows to the best product. That is capitalism. It weeds out the weak and the bad.

If people want products that are safe and healthy, that is what you will get.

I believe the majority of us see the problems of pollution, the vast majority.

Regulations inspired by our central government do not address these issues.

You and I both know that the latest regs inspired in the food industry are now self inspecting. The companies pay the inspectors. Talk about delusion.

As for no government, I am speaking of the way our country was set up. The states have the power, not the fed.

I left Cali because of the problems there. Now, if the Fed has its way with Cap and Trade, Cali will be the model for the rest of the nation regarding building codes among other things. We both know their situation.

Freedom is my Lord and I am his Prophet. Kind of poetic there.

Just this side of anarchy is the perfect solution to all of the problems in our country.

Leave the peoples money in their pockets and see this country thrive.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


It is the truth however. Even if you don't like it. Laws are made to protect stupid people from themselves.

An example: Why did they outlaw lawn darts? The answer? Stupid people. Why is drunk driving illegal? The answer? Stupid people.

The intelligent suffer because of laws that protect stupid people. It's not being elitist. It's just what is. It's truth.

Why do you think that it's so hard for them to regulate Wall Street? It's because these aren't stupid people.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Polynomial C

 

What happens when the government breaks the law? Nothing!

the process is called a "RECALL" ...where the voters can get the perps out-of-office

the second is to IMPEACH the culprit

After the scalliwag is ousted, then normal legal prosecution can proceed.

This process for removal is only for each individual,
it cannot be used for a group or cadre of twisted politicians...
in the case of removing a group/cadre, then a 'coup' is one remedy

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Janky Red

 

But Janky, capital always flows to the best product. That is capitalism. It weeds out the weak and the bad.

If people want products that are safe and healthy, that is what you will get.

I believe the majority of us see the problems of pollution, the vast majority.

Regulations inspired by our central government do not address these issues.

You and I both know that the latest regs inspired in the food industry are now self inspecting. The companies pay the inspectors. Talk about delusion.

As for no government, I am speaking of the way our country was set up. The states have the power, not the fed.

I left Cali because of the problems there. Now, if the Fed has its way with Cap and Trade, Cali will be the model for the rest of the nation regarding building codes among other things. We both know their situation.

Freedom is my Lord and I am his Prophet. Kind of poetic there.

Just this side of anarchy is the perfect solution to all of the problems in our country.

Leave the peoples money in their pockets and see this country thrive.

Well if I step back there are severe deficits in my ideal solutions, but I think you might not fear the consequence of a system that is only beholden to money, that favors the largest consolidation of money. To me that is a very big blind spot for you, mine is thinking that politicians will act with strict principle. But can't you see that unfettered trade, outsourcing, Chinesing will bring us down to the economic level of our direct competitors. In a completely free market, the level of cut throatism will be the same as result nationalizing, most everyone trying to collect the scraps left over from this incredibly lean machine. Really isn't that how monopolies are created? I fear that we will become as free as the TERMS and CONDITIONS state, who sets that ceiling? If we are all disconnected and diluted wheres the room for any effect on this nation? we hand the keys and hope the level of efficiency does not outpace the quantity of mouths.


I am against C&T myself, even though I am convinced man does impact environment, I can look past that and see the impact of the policy, which is worse.

reply to post by whatukno


Any law that is "made" is a positive to law to protect "stupid" people. Laws that are made are not natural laws and I think we have well established that you and I will never agree on the efficacy of "man made laws."

Laws, in their truest intent are those collections of legislation enacted to protect the rights of the people. Lawn dart laws are not enacted to protect the rights of anyone but were enacted to control human behavior and once again, by turning to lawn dart laws you reveal your advocacy of tyranny.

I do admire your tenacity and willingness to keep an unemotional and seemingly clearheaded approach, however. It suggests there is hope for you yet. I highly recommend reading Frederic Bastiat's The Law, if you truly want to come to understand what is law and what merely serves as evidence of law.

Originally posted by Polynomial C
The American People have spoken .. OBAMA WON THE ELECTION ..

He is your president ..


The American People have elected all officials in congress, the house, etc ..


I know you don't like Obama , but i have some bad news for you .. YOU LIVE IN A FREAKING DEMOCRACY !!!

Seriously guy .. what is your deal .. you don't like democracy ?

This country is not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic that works under the rule of law. Democracy as good as it sounds is not a good thing as it allows rights to be suspended on a whim (which are unalienable) and bad laws to be passed easily. Democracy is majority rule. In a Republic the people are supposed to be represented by elected officials that are supposed to vote in their favor. In other words they are to vote to the will of those who they represent. That is much better than a Democracy. Clearly you do not know your history.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by av8r007]

reply to post by whatukno


I think the right had sneaking suspicions of what "change" might mean, and tried desperately to get people to listen.

They urged people to ask, "What change, exactly? What are your goals?"

But people just put all their eggs in one basket, so to speak, and that is where drinking the koolaid came into play. People were hooked on the words "Hope and Change", and forgot to ask, "What exactly does that *mean*?"

The right suspected and were afraid for the country.

I do not deny everyone wanted change, left, right, or libertarian, but they all went by their own idea of what it meant, because no one actually said.

Now, some months later, in anyones' honest opinion, you can see the right had a reason for their suspicions, and the left are left standing there wondering what happened.

Then you still have the koolaid drinkers who refuse to admit maybe, just maybe.. something is wrong here. Those are the ones that will defend this administration to the bitter end that is rapidly approaching.

I think in 2010 and 2012, the term "landslide election" will take on a whole new definition.

reply to post by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx

Democracy???? Do you even live in the US?

With respect to aftermath...i laugh every time i see "counter-culture" get applaud for no reason other than it's "counter-culture"

It reminds me of that episode of family guy:




it's the same thing with the tin-hatters as the undecided voters....except that the tin-hatters are supposed to be the much more intelligent audience.


"DEMOCRACY?????"

and everyone stars

reply to post by Libertygal


Some of us actually took the time to research the candidates. I knew exactly what I was getting into. I can't speak for everyone of course, but I voted my conscience and I don't feel bad.

I think the right had sneaking suspicions of what "change" might mean, and tried desperately to get people to listen.

They urged people to ask, "What change, exactly? What are your goals?"

Again, some of us are informed voters.

But people just put all their eggs in one basket, so to speak, and that is where drinking the koolaid came into play. People were hooked on the words "Hope and Change", and forgot to ask, "What exactly does that *mean*?"

The right suspected and were afraid for the country.

Unfortunately, the right did not oppose Bush's policies at all and they suffered for it. Bush was the real reason that the GOP lost. It was because they were a tight party and voted that way (I know Dems are doing that same thing now and it will cost them)

I do not deny everyone wanted change, left, right, or libertarian, but they all went by their own idea of what it meant, because no one actually said.

Now, some months later, in anyones' honest opinion, you can see the right had a reason for their suspicions, and the left are left standing there wondering what happened.

Not for those of us that actually researched the candidates and the issues. I knew exactly what I was getting into.

Then you still have the koolaid drinkers who refuse to admit maybe, just maybe.. something is wrong here. Those are the ones that will defend this administration to the bitter end that is rapidly approaching.

What is this Koolaid drinkers? Sorry that euphemism is going to hurt the GOP more than you think it will help.

I think in 2010 and 2012, the term "landslide election" will take on a whole new definition.

I don't doubt that the house and the senate will go back to Republican hands in 2010. Frankly the Dems haven't done enough to deserve to be in office. I don't think that the Republicans will sweep it either, honestly they have just been an obstruction rather than any actual help. People will see that.

As for 2012, so far the GOP doesn't have a contender.



[edit on 12/24/2009 by whatukno]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Part of the problem we have is that the majority are voting these same people into office and they somehow expect change. I think that the Right was expecting change more than people who voted Obama in were.

Absolutely, the voters bear significant responsibility, by creating career politicians with their votes. However, as you stated, there are some stupid people out there, and they vote. What is the solution for the problems created by voters making uninformed choices? When he/she votes for a candidate, based solely on the letters (R) or (D)? When a vote is cast entirely at the direction of Beck, Couric, Limbaugh, Maddow or Jon Stewart, with no effort to confirm or dispel any of their claims?

As you said

Just a thought, maybe it's everyone's problem and everyone has a bit of the blame too.

And, as a result, it is everyone's responsibility to contribute to the solution.

...I do what I know to do. Which is to contact my representatives and inform them of my opinion.

When was the last time you felt you received a satisfactory outcome? Did you speak to your representative or a staffer/aide? Was the reply letter written in direct response to you question or suggestion? Or was it boiler plate?

When I telephoned one of my Senators, it took a week of attempts to get through. Then, the receptionist/staffer/aide (whoever it was) didn't appear to have time to listen to the concerns of a constituent. Did not take my contact information and was totally disinterested. What is the solution when they ignore us and do what they consider is in our best interest? Example: Obama made this statement, recently, regarding high end health insurance policies "Cadillac plans ... don't make people healthier, but just take more money out of their pockets,". Who is he to say you can't purchase such a plan, if you can afford it or convince your employer to buy it for you?

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

In my opinion, very powerful words, which are just as relevant today as they were in 1776.



[edit on 24-12-2009 by WTFover]

reply to post by whatukno


I was not referring to you personally, it was you, generally speaking. I am glad you did your research.

Did you happen to find out what grades Obama made in school, and what his thesis was? I sure would be interested in knowing more about him, a bit more than a ghost written book and a short history of mostly present votes allows you to discern.

A lot of people took his campaign speeches at face value, too, you know, like the failed Bush policies he now espouses? And how about the new claim that he never campaigned on the public option?

Whew, good thing he can be trusted to keep his word. Wait, he has no history, so how would we know?

And, I don't care if using koolaid drinkers hurts the GoP, they are doing it to themselves.

And no the GoP has no front runners.

I hope an independent or Libertarian comes out of the woodwork in the next 3 years, though.

The real issues surrounding the rouge US Government are not defined by the content of legislation or who the American people cast their votes for.

They are determined by whether those that were elected misrepresented themselves to the people in order to obtain their position through the voting process. If so, then they have been elected based on a fraud.

Once in office does their conduct, legislative agenda and voting record reflect the will of the people who voted them into office or does it reflect the will of others who either individually or as a group played no part in the election process.

Not that all polls are 100% reflective of the people's will in all cases, but the Hate Crimes Bill, Healthcare Reform Bill and Cap and Trade are all unpopular with the people as a whole, yet those who have been elected to represent and reflect the will of the people have seen fit to usurp that will in favor of who?

Given these facts, what are the options available to the People if we can no longer be sure that a candidate is expressing their true agenda and intentions prior to the vote or that he will represent the will of those who elected them once in office.

Well it has not been signed into law yet. The day it is, then you are going to see a major uprising in this country that hasn't been seen in along time. I would advise people to enjoy Christmas and make plans to find work that the Government cant get their hands on.

If enough people demand that their taxes not be taken out of their paychecks then we will win this fight. Tell them no or else you will quit right on the spot and they will give in.

reply to post by endisnighe


Its cause of this war that I am still in the middle east fighting for corporate interests instead of people's freedom. keep on fighting the good fight and let them know that $***'s busted in the States.

What frelling democracy indeed!!! It amazes me, here (ATS) more than anywhere else, how many people just dont 'get it'.. No the world in its entirety isnt any better, absolutely.. but America, being the country it is, has a great deal to do with how the rest of the world carries on. Sadly. Hence the well known 'Americanization' of most countries by now..all i can really say though is I'm glad to have got out of the hell hole and highly advise anyone else in the nation to do the same. When the sky begins to fall, so to say, the US is where its more likely than not to begin..
OP, you have every right under the sun to be angry about the events going on, and if people tell you to calm down about it, they are part of the issue you speak of. Be angry about it because its what all humans have to fight back with..

Welcome to Democracy, now it's your turn to be a minority. SUCK IT UP! And be happy you don't have a "democracy" like in Iran where minorities find themselves completely without hope. You see they don't have a senate full of people fighting for minorites. The governing party GOVERNS!

Its sad to hear people say this is the way it is tough beans for all of us. It makes me laugh to hear people say well just vote them out. Voting does absolutely nothing what so ever except gives us the right to bitch about how #ty the government is. There will never be a politican able to do things for the people while lobbysists and corporations are financing their campaigns. Voting is a joke and a sham. An opiate that gives us a sense of control over our lives.

By all means vote and ovte some more. everyone. Its all we got. But keep track of how often your let down or policies are put in place that seem counterintuitive.