Two sides to a story

I am neither a Christian, nor do I have much knowledge of the bible and its interpretations so I won't weigh in on the discussion here other than to say that the OP's post reminds me of the Alex Haley quote: "History is written by the winners."

It never occurred to me that the bible was possibly telling one side of the story as the title of this thread suggests. For those who regard the bible as a history book, imagine the implications of never being made aware of the other point of view.

That's worth a S&F from me.

reply to post by pause4thought


Mark 11:24

Ask anything in my name and thy shall receive it.

This is an unambiguous statement. Yet when you ask for things or power to do things they never manifest. Its always in God's time. Or the most popular rationalization is its not Gods "will" . So when your in the God club if Gods going to do what he wants then prayer is useless. Hes going to answer it or not.

And I just don't get the Victim Consciousness of the God thing. You need permission or approval from God to do anything as a Christian. Your a slave to this God cause he constantly reinforces his ultimate power over you and that you need him to do anything you desire. And victim hood hood even more by believing that God is going to rescue you. Then another imaginary character is introduced called Lucifer to further support the influence to look outside of yourself for answers as you cant do it your self is the Christian model. A God that you cant touch, or talk to. You cant interact with him in any physical way but yet people hear him talking and he answers prayers.

No he doesn't. God is not a focus of personality-individual thought or a benevolent creator separate from you. God is the combination of the focus of all its parts coalesced into the composite of all. The perception of God is then changed to Cosmic?Galactic relationship rather then father/child relationship. its a shift from experiencing or being powerless to being a contributor to the whole.

reply to post by ROBO6

Then another imaginary character is introduced called Lucifer...

Only now do we see that you don't believe Satan is real, and the stance you originally took that it's unfairly one-sided that we never hear his side of the story - was simply playing with ideas.

What is also clear is that you are looking at the Christian faith and expressing surprise that it conflicts with your present world-view, which comes across as based on Eastern mysticism and/or New Age beliefs. That's inevitable. The only real difficulty is that you seem to want to dismiss or even ridicule the Christian perspective rather than engage constructively.

Are you angered by the Christian faith?

reply to post by pause4thought


No. I just realized its based in victim/abuser consciousness. Christian religion in particular tells you that self empowerment is bad for you and its being selfish and not giving glory to an imaginary God. You have to constantly appease God and make him happy so you wont burn in a lake of fire or whatever. Its ludicrous. Then its teaches you that you cant reach this enlightened stage until you die to go be with God. Its laughable. So your number one a sinner is what is immediately taught to you at birth in a christian home and then your taught you have no real power of your own other then through the almighty God. Then God tells you you may not make based on your life and how u live. So the whole concept is based in fear. How the hell are you supposed to fear/love a guy like God. You cant do both. But this is constantly pushed by Christians that you have to fear God but love him at the same time.

Wow. Hell I might as well tell my daughter Santy Clause is real and he spreads love and joy all over the earth and brings toys to all needy children. So the lie is told and made to seem real in the child's mind all the while we know that its a lie and the fallacy in Santa is that there are still children out there waddling in their own poop and eating out of trash cans. But Santa is helping people. So tell your child that, how Santa doesn't bring toys to all the children. Just like God dosent help all his "children". And this Christian myth of God helps those who help themselves is more suppression of the soul into victim consciousness.

And the question still hasn't been answered concerning Lucifer. None of your explanation have explained Lucifer's story. And you guys cant. Because he doesn't exist. The church is a mega multi million dollar scam. All these so called empowerment leaders of the church like T.D Jakes who do nothing to follow the laws of God. No Christian I know practices what God commands cause he surely doesn't teach. There are countless commands that God put forth and not one Christian follows them. Not one. Why? becuase God is imaginary.

reply to post by ROBO6

The church is a mega multi million dollar scam. All these so called empowerment leaders of the church like T.D Jakes who do nothing to follow the laws of God.

The "church" you speak of makes ME angry. 'Health, wealth & prosperity'-type teachers have perverted the Christian faith. I am with you 100%.

There are true disciples of Christ. By definition those who genuinely seek to follow Christ's way are not to be found where earthly riches take priority.

I am truly sorry that the charlatans have led to you feeling so disillusioned.

Life is a journey. May it please God to bless you by bringing people across your path who live to give God's love, not take the world's goods.

Originally posted by ROBO6
Hello ATS family,

I was raised in a christian family. My great grandmother co-founded the church I attended. I come form a baptist background. I have since grown out of the need for religious dogma.

Newsflash OP,

You never paid attention in church even for one minute, or you had and still have untreated ADD.
From reading your post it is quite obvious that every single point and every referrence to the bible according to what you feal is true or have learned has been completely misunderstood by you, it is so blatently bad it is as if you learned something was black when it was taught to you as white. I am not trying to attack you in any way, just pointing out what it appears to be.
And since you said you have grown out of the need for religious dogma, it also doesn't make much sense for you to even be posting about religion..

reply to post by ROBO6


Ok if this is the case then that has to include all planets on the entire universe. Not just Earth. And if it Lucifer just has dominion over Earth then that means other Gods exist along with "The God".

~~~~ end of post ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


In another thread i did explain that when Lucifer was created he was given dominion over all the physical universe...as a sandbox,

It (Lucifer) and 1/3 of the lower Angels were busy transforming the 'essence' or 'consciousness' found in every atom/pebble/mountain/massive Galaxy of the material universe ... into life forms ...some of which on the planet Earth progressed from a water based creation & followed the evolutionary structure.
but All matter was designed to 'transform' itself... just as we know that the plants & minerals we consume, allows us independent life by transforming plants & minerals into self.
God came to Earth & Late-in-the-game, created the Adamic line of man & woman, but from the soil/clay of Earth itself rather than water.

One needs to revisit Genesis , back in the primal stage of religious thought,
before one can address the evolved religiousosity of some 2500 years of conditioning...
thanks

reply to post by antideceit


Really. I see and I guess you were there when i was growing up in church. You have no clue of what I understand or fail to understand. Now I have not made any personal attacks and I don't appriciate any personal attacks. Im discussing the inadequacies of religion. Not my suppose ADD problem that you diagnosed me with yet have never met me.

It seems all of my points have been either ignored, or just twisted into something totally different. My original OP was concerning Lucifer's story and why is it that we keep hearing it from another perspective except the devils. That still hasn't been answered and dealing with the supporting questions that Ives answered and even put forth, people have done the same thing, just like NASA, never a straight answer. You defend your religion(s) and yet you do nothing to support them. If there are "devoted" Christians out there then why aren't any Christians, giving up their worldly possessions, why are Christians gather things in homes when God commanded against it. Why arent Christians out there killing anybody that works on the Sabbath? Thats a direct command from GOD, but I don't see you guys killing people on that day. Or how about keeping slaves as its described in detail of how to keep one In Exodus. Then the utter perfusion that Christians know that what they believe in has been severely compromised by MAN yet they defend it with their lives. Those things that i mentioned you guys dont do because you know its repulsive to do it. But you as Christians dont have the right to question any of Gods commands. Remember you guys think that the Bible is the word of God and he spoketh it himself through these chosen servants. In the beginning there was the word. No in the beginning there was THOUGHT because words are thoughts spoken out loud.

Yet I'm blasted because "I don't believe" in a imaginary God that wont even answer his own people. But im delusional because Im not running around preaching this word that someone told me was true. I mean people can believe what they want thats fine with me. But whatever you believe in make sure its logical. And Im sorry guys but Christianity or any other religion is a flat out lie and science has proven that years ago. Its all in our cultures that the religions have been fabricated to control man. I mean if you wanna worship an invisible man be my guess.

And the solid answers on Lucifer are still unanswered. So here a simple question. How do we know that Lucifer is bad. Because we were told so and with no evidence he was "bad" other then a convoluted book full of primitive people trying to translate the "WORD OF GOD". Hahaha come one. And dragons live in volcano's.