ATS is dying, a cancer grows within.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"the issue is with people who debunk it and act completely rude about it with this feeling of superiority and being condescending toward other members."

This called a digital ego and many here should teach classes on it. I agree completly. Many here do seem to be orgrish with their "knowledge" and ten to rub it in the faces of others a bit.

reply to post by alyosha1981

Many here do seem to be orgrish with their "knowledge" and ten to rub it in the faces of others a bit.

Have you ever heard the term " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

People simply search for their own perspective, and will latch on to any proof of their preconceived ideas.

When I see someone use knowledge as a weapon instead of a tool, I realize just who the tool is.

reply to post by Seiko


I think you would enjoy and benefit from reading this thread:

Denying ignorance and the mind's tendency to reinforce it

It gives the reasons why people do exactly what you where talking about.

reply to post by pepsi78

Unless YOU of course bring up the gays.
Dude, if you don't like a topic choose something else. I've never seen a page 1 (or any other page) of the "recent thread" list with only gender topics (let alone gay topics).
I've seen you on a past thread on homosexuality where you said you'd beat the crap out of any gay who flirts with you. So while I get your point that you want more variety, I also don't understand why you post on gay-themed threads then? And please don't tell me you didn't have countless other choices.
You picked your example pretty typically, and an example doesn't require views on genes or subcultures. Your views are welcome - but don't moan on a topic WHILE you are engaging it.

Some of the messages by members reach a lot of people.
Some of the people forget that real life has challenges all by it self, without injecting material from a conspiracy forum.

Basically, a lot of the stuff that make conspiracies fun, also carry a dangerous mindset to those who believe this stuff is as real as going to work and paying your taxes.

Yes, this is the internet. I've watched someone close go haywire because he believed SO strongly in the whole reptilian theory that he came close to wanting to kill people outside the "internet". He wound up in a hospital, and diagnosed with a bunch of long words. Schizophrenic being one of them. He had some issues prior to this site, of course I'm not blaming the site. But the info he dug up on his own didn't help him.

I applaud the debunkers, if they can push in a little sanity when things get out of hand. If that helps one person not go on a killing spree, then good.

There are ways to do it without being an A$$ about it, though. So to that end, I agree. Civility helps the cause and keeps the debates fueled without relying on insults and anger.

To the OP, do you believe 100% in every claim that is posted to this site? If not than you are a skeptic. I always go with the rule that extraordinary claims need extraordinary facts to back them up. As example; To say there are alien bases on this planet I would label this an extraordinary claim, and when the proof is either just an opinion or the result of a quick goggle search in the net, I would need to say show me more.

I guess my point is how can people post what they consider absolute facts with nothing really backing up those facts while the nasty arguments start when someone is just explaining the huge holes within the post? If a person has a theory they would like to pursue then I’m all for dialogue to go whatever direction it takes us, but that is not what we see most of the time.

I love it that people are passionate about subjects that are not mainstream. I myself would not be here on this site if I wasn’t also interested in many of them, and I would love nothing more than to see proof positive on any number of topics, but if you haven’t noticed, what people claim as proof positive has become very stale data that is used over and over and proves nothing in the end.

If three people all witness a light in the sky that zigzagged around one might say hey look at that crazy light and work on trying to explain it, were the next one might say, hey look at the aliens, and the third could say; not only are they aliens, but they are the Grays and they just left a secret underground base created with a NWO partnership. In the end the poof is it is only a light in the sky…. What I might find as a huge leap in belief for others it is just a small step. One interesting real example was the 6,7,8000 post? On whether Criss Angle was real or not. With that, there are people willing to make 1000s of post that he is real all based on only A@E footage of his stunts. For me the point is not whether he was real or not, but the facts presented did not prove much of anything one way or the other, and since basic laws of physics do not allow such things, extraordinary poof would need to be presented, such as performing one of his stunts under a very controlled environment. I think if a person wanted to discuss their theories going in whatever direction the available facts take them then we would not see the typical “debunker or skeptic” type posts, but more of a thought provoking dialogue.

It just seems to me that anyone with a difference of opinon automatically becomes a debunker and are a cancer on this site.
The only way a site like ATS will work is if people disagree on fundamental things and are free to argue their points without being called debunkers as some of you would have us believe.

On the contrary, I received a applause for a valid point in the Norway Spiral scenario, regarding the ripple in the sky effect and how it disappeared with the flash of a black hole and didn't dissipate naturally like it should have, also, the science is yet to be officially explained of how this event took place.

I believe ATS is healthy as usual, filled with skeptics and tin-foil hat wearing folk, and the ones in the middle, as myself.

But, I do believe certain individuals are irrational, as always, however, I do not see any cancer growing in ATS that hasn't already been here in the past 2 1/2 years I've been on ATS.

I'm sorry, but alot of these posters with outrageous claims and conspiracy's ARE the ones bringing ATS down, and destroying any legitimacy it will ever have.

Everyone is quick to debunk and dismiss outrageousness, .... because out of all the crazy claims how many of them were proven to be true ???

People SHOULD approach every thread with a skeptical mind and not blindly accept them to be true.

If I could start and flag you a hundred times I would. Just wait untill you get kicked off for denying too much ignorance. I am not talking foul language or abusive behavior I am talking about demanding answers and accountability from the debunkers. The sad thing about it is, they don't even bother giving you an explanation. You just wake up one day and you can't access your account any longer.

This site has most definately been infiltrated by suedo-debunkers.More over, it is getting harder and harer to learn about things that you find very interesting because you have to sift through pages and pages of debunkers who's only goal it is to stir the pot and create disharmony and discontention.

In a way we share the blame, you and I. Because if we are not careful we feed into it by even acknowledging their existence. These people should not even be remotely acknowledged. Try it sometime if you haven't already. Start a thread about something that interests you and then let all of the debunkers have a feeding frenzy. Now,.....Reply only to posts which are respectfull and totally ignore the rest..Hard to do I know but it is a must.

Some of these people you would swear get paid as a full time emplyee to debunk. coughinfraredmancough!!

Now I do of course realize that I am going to get kicked off yet again by merely posting this but I really don't care. A great man once said....."AhhhhLLL BE BAHK".

I mean no harm and am doing my duty...I refuse to embrace ignorance on any level. Viva la resistance!!!!!

Whatever is brought into the public arena is open for debate. I'm getting really annoyed with these threads where people complain about debunkers - as if they don't have the right to speak their mind. I have the right to believe in UFOs/Aliens, conspiracy theories, etc. and the right to let my beliefs known. Everybody else has the right to call me crazy (and believe me, they do). I need facts to prove my arguments. Those who disagree with my arguments need facts to prove me wrong. Nothing is debunked until it is absolutely disproven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So some of them are rude...so what? I've gotten used to it when discussing the topics that are discussed on ATS. It comes with the territory. It always has; it always will. Grow a set and defend your beliefs until your last, dying breath. If you can't, then maybe you're in the wrong place.

ATS is a large community now I would think. So we must expect a variety of people will behave in ways many don't like.

There are lessons in it for all of us. Be discerning on what you choose to read and reply to. Choose your behaviour when responding to posts so that you show how ATS expects people to behave. Model what we seek.

Proof is good if you have it as it helps settle some matters. The rest is discussion, and we need to remember that so we don't take personal criticisms to heart and reply in kind.

And then smile

Honestly, I never felt like commenting at all in the many years I've lurked here until this place became the Obama's Birth Cert clearing house... that made me wanna post... to refute such OBVIOUS nonsense...

Once that was finished we went straight into hundreds of posts about the Leaked Climate Emails, which again, is such stupid crap, I felt the need to comment.

This place used to be a LOT less political.

The more political it gets, the more angry the comments will become.

If you wanna keep it civil, try not to let the tea-party set (i.e. total lunatics) take it over.

Barring that, expect this place to be a #-slinging fest from here on out.

A quick message, from someone who has been here longer than the OP..

ATS always treats the membership the same. This site has never always believed in a conspiracy theory immediately - we investigate (with scepticism)

The recent Norway failed missile launch is a perfect example. Countless images of ballistic missile were posted - showing an identical match. Guess what? Believers refused to acknowledge it! How can you debate against that attitude? And don't get me started on the 9/11 section...truthers have destroyed that part of the website.

These cry baby threads, who wish to prevent any sort of scepticism, are to blame for the decline. Plus, the quality of members is rapidly declining and we are replacing them with those who fail to search for old topics or even bother to present their thread in a constructive manner.

Not everything is a conspiracy. Grow up

[edit on 14-12-2009 by infinite]

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


Is it really so awful to ask for evidence?

Consider what has been happening lately. We have had a larger amount of people posting completely baseless stories without any proof whatsoever. I am not a debunker because that implies i have a set view on a topic, i am a skeptic, meaning i need evidence provided if someone makes a claim.

What has been happening is that these truly insane stories are posted, very often badly worded which implies they are posted by kids having fun. These stories get pages of inane replies, either fully believing, slightly believing or skeptics asking for evidence and people are getting tired of it.

Repeating "please provide some evidence" over and over on tons of threads does get a little tiring and so i can see what some people would get so angry. In my humble view once someone has asked for evidence to be provided people should just stop posting.

If this were done then maybe we could finally get rid of the trolls.

It would seem that taking the coined term "Deny Ignorance" and applying it to oneself, means anyone that disagrees with your views or theories is a 'debunker', 'disinformation agent', or fill in your own platitude.

What keeps debate and discussion rolling is not two attracting views, but rather two opposing views working together to form one solid view. So much in this world works with opposites, but yet our human minds want us all to be homogeneous.

Although great minds do think alike, their greatness is limited by their likeness, whereas great minds that think differently are unbound by limitless possibilities.

On that, I believe a solid explanation from the site on what they mean by "Deny Ignorance" means to them and make it known.
I know to me, it doesn't mean we are to accept our own ignorance while viewing an opposing view or thought as ignorant.

Rather we are to not take the word(s) of what is stated because of what a specialist, scientist, media personnel, favored ATS member has deemed correct. Then with the power of the most powerful computer on earth, we are to use our brains and seek out the information to either back up what we have heard or break down the barriers to false information.

Everywhere in society there are those that just wish to play the antagonist, but through discernment, common sense, knowledge and wit, one will be able to weed out and easily shut down said persons arguments.

If those arguments cannot be so easily shut down, then maybe it is time to realize that oneself has not denied ignorance, but rather denied themselves by remaining ignorant.

I've been visiting this site for.. over a year now I'ma say, and just now I've ACTUALLY registered. I've always come close to registering, but I'm usually not gonna be on long enough to post or am not in the right mindstate for the whole process.

Anyways, I've also, when lookin through the posts, noticed a lot of more people in the last few months have been quick to debunk a topic like DAT! As if not even interested in any other explanations.

I really enjoy this site, I'll def be passin through more.

I moved to Moldova 5 years ago. I really liked it, when I got here as far as I was concerned everything was perfect. It was like America in the late 1950's.
But darn it, most of the Moldovans were not happy with everything like it was when I got here and the dimwits kept improving EVERYTHING.
Now I don't have to go to an internet cafe, I have a little stick modem I can plug in a USB port on my laptop and I can go to the village and use my laptop while sitting out in a field watching the farmers cut corn stalks with machetes.
ATS is vibrant and growing... certainly not dying

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


I, for one, am here to learn. If people can't prove their claims, there's nothing to learn, and so it's rather pointless that they clog up the site with their unfounded hypotheses.

If someone on ATS has fantastic evidence of something truly awesome, how will we know? It'll be buried under endless posts saying the Norway missile test was a portal from Mars or how the NWO elite are spraying everyone with chemtrails. We need to keep the signal-to-noise ratio as strong as possible, otherwise ATS ceases to be of any use what so ever.

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


Another one of these threads

The first few were kinda harmless I guess, but this is just getting silly. Every time a tiny little change comes along we humans have to cry out like we're all about to die. Panic and paranoia even beyond that which the average conspiracy theorist has has apparently infested the site.

Skepticism is not bad. Without skepticism we'd all believe maneating tacos inhabit our trousers waiting to strike without warning. We'd all believe whatever the government told us. And we'd all believe every rock on Mars was an alien relic.

Debunking is not bad. Without people to voice opposition to views others hold there would be no debate at all. If something can be sufficiently debunked or disproved how is that a threat? It only brings us one step closer to the truth if we weed out the lies.

But go ahead and cry wolf, maybe some of the other sheep will listen.

Edit to add: The only cancer I detect is that these sort of threads keep making it to the front page and keep distracting us from debating real issues.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by Titen-Sxull]