ATS is dying, a cancer grows within.

While many members have mentioned this I feel like I need to put my 0.02 USD in the penny for our thought fund.

Lately there has been an increase in members wanting to be skeptical or who wish to straight debunk everything and attack ATS members for even briging up content that is controversial (which this site covers) and worse yet, the ATS moderators and only APPLAUDING them for their skepticism/debunkerism.

Everyone coming with anything of interest rarely gets recognized by the ATS staff and usually they cry PROOF along with the skeptic/debunker crowd which almost outnumber the open minded people that started this site.

WHY are so many new members coming here and trying to derail the subject matter of this site? why do the old members like me and others slowly being pushed aside by these new members that only wish to sabotage this site.

Moreover, some of these members are now becoming moderators...and in turn...we are being infiltrated by these debunkers.

They are trying to kill this site from the inside!

ABOVE TOP SECRET information is what we discuss here NOT debunking every single claim that might shock some simple minds to the core, desperately trying to explain away what they fear.

ATS is under attack, I don't know if they are professional debunkers, government agents or your everyday nay sayers.

I am tired that my voice is never heard on this site, no one wants to listen or acknowledge what i'm trying to rely, it's like i'm being ignored for what i'm trying to share.

There are things going on RIGHT NOW that are absolutely fantastic and extremely hard to believe, super advanced technology is kept underground, extra-terrestial are actively involved in clandestine operations that only the highest members of the government and military are informed on.

They are extremely efficient at hiding the truth, planting trees so you can't see the whole landscape anymore.

THEY ARE PLANTING THOSE TREES RIGHT HERE! on a site that embodies the first ammendant right! even if you are not in the United States, free speech is something we can ALL embrace! but this free speech is being destroyed by stealth, we are being manipulated in what we believe is true, we are being force-fed what they want us to believe is the truth, not just by TV or other mass-media, but by the internet.

If the government indeed has extremely advanced technology, then it follows that they have artificial inteligence that monitors the web and destroys theories by finding the most efficient explanation for a certain theory.

I am not as smart as most ATS members nor do I post anything that hits the front page, but I have been here a long time and this site is changing for the worst, the content that is generated on this site is being sniped before it goes anywhere.

I could mention some debunker 'heroes' on this site but I shall refrain but we will hear the desperate people crying for an explanation for what they fear.

Ignorance isn't bliss! the truth will set you free!

I call all ignorance denying warriors to fight the debunkers and win this board back.

Light the way to truth, just because the debunkers are smart doesn't mean we can't outsmart them, just because they are skilled at using a search engine to find claims against what is being posted here doesn't mean we can't do the same thing in the contrary.

Viva la resistance.

ive been reading here for years, only recently joined early this year in order to converse with like-minded individuals. I have also noticed that there seems to be more rage in comments, more personal attacks for, lets face it, topics that will not be answered in the near future.

I have no cure for this, other than to ignore the retards and look for friends.

Although I agree with you, matters raised here are open for discussion.

Just do what I do. If I don't like the first few lines of a post, skip to the next one, and only read the posts you are interested in.

It gets hard though when the subject is completely derailed.

[edit on 13/12/09 by NuclearPaul]

Ok, so instead of using proof to debunk, we should just believe everything that we read here?

So what if there are debunkers, its needed here, half the stuff posted here ends up being garbage which is easily disproven with logical thinking and backing evidence. That where the applause is awarded.

If there were no people actually arguing there point, then this site would be literally worthless and boring. Anyway what is wrong with asking for proof? Would you rather just ignore that kind of stuff and belive what is written even if it doesnt have anything that indicates it is factual?

What Im trying to say here is, without two sides of a story, and without proof then we are certainly not denying ignorance. If you choose to ignore the opposite side of the arguments believers, then how the hell is that not being ignorant?

If you dont like a 50/50 argument then I hear godlikeproductions is the best place to be, those people dont use or even need evidence in their posts.

Deny ignornace, and deny idiocracy

Ive been on here since august, i never have a problem with peoples opinions, i do however have a problem with people creating threads claiming to be an alien; or we all know the threads that consist of some outlandish story written in broken speedy language like the poster is in such a rush to get their story to the public that they cant type proper. Yet they have time to stick around for a few hours demanding everyone to "trust" them, their stories real they just have no proof or wont answer questions. I have a problem with those people, and aside from that im getting a little bored of hearing about how bad the big ol internet has been to you. Now im sure you have had some unfortunate run-ins with the resident morons, but i have seen so many of these threads lately one cant help but think the whinners are forging a new subset of ATS members.

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


I agree with you on there, like the thread on the norway spiral
the debunkers claim (IT WAS Just testing of missile and a rocket)

But i dont believe in them at all, since the way they are introducing there post
in a rude manner, not only attacking my beliefs but other ATS members beliefs aswell.


You know debunkers if you dont like it here why dont you leave then?
there is another debunk forum site that i once knew.


Where you can still live your dream world.
No offence to you at all.
If you want to stay, then so but dont attack other peoples beliefs

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

Another cancer I see here is the cancer of making crazy claims with no real base of reason. And all with the expectation that you will be taken seriously and no one will dare disagree with you let alone get frustrated/pissed at you for debunking and putting those distractions (that people are putting out there) down

Maybe ATS should go NWO - - hand picking who is allowed to voice opinion and who isn't.

ATS could hand pick who they think intelligently represents each category and can debate eloquently.

I guess us peons could be given right of vote to select the eloquent speaking individuals to represent us.

I'm sure when ATS began with its loyal followers - - they were a tight knit group with like minded thinking.

Oh! - the horrors of growing - - and letting just anyone in.

So far at least, I find that if you have a conviction in an argument you won't be debunked. I love it when a good post debate comes together, and we can agree to disagree.
Perhaps some things should be debunked - just because people are open to conspiracy doesn't mean we should swallow everything.
My problem is when everyone agrees on a thread - it's often a dead-end.
So viva debate and debunkers - bring it on!

I agree with you, and if I may add my 2 cents, I am disgusted at the handling of the alternative drugs forum. Personal use must not be spoken of, that alone is censorship and not what I expected from ATS, but aside from personal use/abuse you may not even discuss how to help family members who are addicts, which I feel that in todays drug fueled society is a way to avoid talking about that which affects a huge percentage of members here! What the hell is so bad about discussing the topic of addiction????? That kind of censorship goes beyond ridiculous. Book burning and banning isn't even close to the level of censorship that this is on ATS. I just didn't expect it. And I don't even know why I am back on here tonight except that I am at work, bored and ATS WAS, emphasis on WAS, my favorite site to visit. But more and more I am realizing that the site is heavily monitored/censored, yet at the same time it is rampant with those allowed to rant and throw threads off track because they disagree or do not believe in the topic. Where are the censors then?

[edit on 13-12-2009 by space cadet]

Conspiracy theorists need debunkers and skeptics. The more conspiracy theorists are kept on their toes, the stronger their arguments have to be, which is a good thing.

There's nothing wrong with being a debunker or a skeptic. The search for truth is a tough one. Many people want to believe what they think is true. If their convictions run deep, it can be really hard to let go and see the other side of the argument. Having another angle to an issue is a very important part of learning.

However, I think you mean to say that the level of rabidness coming from the debunking crowd has amplified the past few months. Yeah, it's unpleasant, but if you're going to get into heavy conspiracies, you better be ready to take some hits.

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


Your theory makes no sense, I want PROOF of your accusations or else I will have you reported to ATS staff.



This thread rocks! S & F for you.

reply to post by Annee


Annee they already have that in place, they named them 'moderators'

I call them censors.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by space cadet]

reply to post by halfoldman


I have to acknowledge the "yes I agree" posts kill a thread dead.

=====================================

I think the op might be getting at the tone and context of it all. This is a public forum, we expect to have a give and take and people with opposing views. What we don't need is the insults and the derogatory digs at people's intelligence.

If you're going to accuse another of not having facts, debunk, enlighten, or persuade using a rational approach. The "you're stupid, that's crazy" posts mean nothing to me and they shouldn't mean anything to anyone else either.

As to the death of ats, it seems a bit premature. Obviously this site has grown at an astounding rate this year.

My suggestion, as a new user is to simply stop allowing the derailers and jerks to rule your life. They can't survive without your attention, so as they say"stop feeding the trolls".



PS: These threads are getting old,, seriously...

Depends on the "Topic" and the direction the poster is going. I am a "active" debunker or someone who will "expose" Hippocrates, agendas driven by half-proofs or lies, or present facts that oppose a particular agenda or opinion that I believe is false.

A few examples:

From Thread: 10 Pieces of Redundant Dogmatic Religious Anti-Atheist Rhetoric
www.abovetopsecret.com...

From Thread: Why are so many people against the hate crimes bill?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

From Thread: Why doesn't US/China want to lower their emmissions???!!!!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

From Thread: Global Warming Denial: An American Partisan Issue
www.abovetopsecret.com...


So would I be classified as a "debunker"?

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo

I have to agree with you on some level. It's the content, ATS is growing in poor content. Threads and subjects had better content. These days it's anything. Threads that end up empty with a few posts. Where is the good stuff that we had. It's explainable, members that joined few years ago were intrested in conspiracy subjects on a more personal level where as today lots of members take this as a trendy dandy subject like a SCI-FI show where you have cool effects.

Other than that....
This site has become more of a X vs Y on anything instead of Conspiracy related posts vs everything is explainable by logic. Because this site has growed in content regarding anything other than conspiracy subjects.
The news section is rarely a conspiracy related subject, people talk about
all sort of stuff, like abortion, women rights guys with two sexes, the right or wrong of being gay and how wrong it is to kill your self.

These are not conspiracy topics and I think it was a wrong direction to go in.
I don;t need gay activists, or women preaching about rights, or guys asking for a manual on how to score with chicks.
This thread is good, I really was wondering a few days ago where are all the good topics gone and why the content on ATS got so diluated with crap
that has nothing to do with this site's name.



[edit on 13-12-2009 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo

 

I have to agree with you on some level. It's the content, ATS is growing in poor content. Threads and subjects had better content. These days it's anything. Threads that end up empty with a few posts. Where is the good stuff that we had. It's explainable, members that joined few years ago were intrested in conspiracy subjects on a more personal level where as today lots of members take this as a trendy dandy subject like a SCI-FI show where you have cool effects.

Other than that....
This site has become more of a X vs Y on anything instead of Conspiracy related posts vs everything is explainable by logic. Because this site has growed in content regarding anything other than conspiracy subjects.
The news section is rarely a conspiracy related subject, people talk about
all sort of stuff, like abortion, women rights

guys with two sexes, the right or wrong of being gay and how wrong it is to kill your self.

This are not conspiracy topics and I think it was a wrong direction to go in.
I don;t need gay activists, or women preaching about rights, or guys asking for a manual on how to score with chicks.
This thread is good, I really was wondering a few days ago where are all the good topics gone and why the content on ATS got so diluated with crap
that has nothing to do with this site's name.
[edit on 13-12-2009 by pepsi78]

Isn't that what BTS is for -- to talk about whatever?
Stricter moderation is needed!

I'm really not trying to be an ass. However, why is it that so many people get up in arms when some one asks for proof?

Part of what I had drilled in to me all my life was "look for proof." I was always told to never believe in proof just because you heard three or four people say the same thing. Ask them for their sources.

I remember doing a paper on whether or not Crusaders roasted and ate children. Well, at first I thought it was true. Five or six "reference" titles all mentioned it as fact. However when I looked for their sources they all mentioned one woman. (Sorry I cannot remember her name.) Her father was the king of the country where the crusaders had come to rest while awaiting transport to the Middle East. The problem is her father and her country had recently been at war with these exact same people. This means that she may have had other motivations for saying these things.

Well with the primary witness seeming less than credible I looked for secondary sources. You know another person, letters, manuscripts, and all of those things. I could not find them.

These reference books had all taken the word of this one woman as the whole proof. Some books even referenced other books that listed her as the sole reference.

My point? One source made an allegation and someone repeated it. After a few people repeated it became the truth. Not, as you may think, because of exhaustive research. Simply because a chorus had arisen saying that it was.

Here is my main point. Proof is necessary when you are presenting something as fact. It is also necessary that you make sure your proof is actually proof and not repeated rumors. Otherwise all you have is opinion and suppositions.

I agree we should be able to debate and discuss all the controversial topics. However, real debate requires being able to answer hard questions and show proof. Anything less is a waste of time because you are not denying ignorance, you are breeding it.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee they already have that in place, they named them 'moderators'

I call them censors.

I've been on forums for over 10 years - - started with ICQ

I will never belong to any forum that does not have moderators - - - ever again.

But - that is not what my post was about.

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


I am sorry, in future I'll just trust people when they claim to be channelling an Alien from Tau Ceti, or that they are a Vampire, or that they have inside knowledge about some vast conspiracy to kill off the worlds population with infected Pommegranites.



Silly me, there I was thinking that this board was for open and frank discussion about a range of topics, leading to critical analysis of the available information by a wide variety of people who can range from Pilots and Soldiers, to Engineers and photographers.

I guess we'll just have to agree with you in the future? Would that make you happy?

You sling around the word "debunker" as if it's some kind of derogatory term when in reality it's people with, in many cases, in-depth and professional knowledge about a subject trying to educate people who couldn't navigate out of a wet paper bag, even if they had a map, compass and a knife.

For the record, I believe in Aliens and I reckon there is some sort of cover up, however, that doesn't mean I believe everything people write on the web. The Norway spiral, for example, is clearly a friggin rocket, yet plenty of people are so far gone in their ability to apply reason and logic that they will swear blind it was a time/space dilation matrix or a wormhole, whilst offering bugger all proof such a thing existsm while simulataneously ignoring the obvious evidence staring them in the face.....