Free Health Care is Awesome!!!

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


po:

I feel like your our GOP/insurance industry talking points guy. You're the guy who the insurance industry loves because your dislike government so much the insurance industry is counting on you to vote against a plan that is actually going to make your life EASIER!!!!!

You say you don't trust the govt to run health care, I get that, but actually, most independent analysis suggests it will actually decrease the debt. And all that I am asking is that I get the chance to buy into a medicare or VA type system, both government run health care plans that work quite well... Better yet, just allow me to get the same health care that our SENATORS/ and CONGRESSMEN GET, which they seem to love.

You say this health care reform bill is another form of entitlements. I don't agree. I think the public option allows for more freedom of choice in the market place by giving me more options. And honestly, at this point, I dislike insurance companies more than I dislike the government. And I dislike my mortgage company even more, but that's a different story.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by pheos

 

What part of the Federal government destroys everything it touches did you not understand????

And why is that many seem to use this line as a comeback when they can't come up with anything better?

Seriously though, I don't trust our government any more than many of the people on this site. At all. If I had the chance I would flee this country in an instant. It's one of the most corrupt governments in the world in my opinion, but I also trust the health insurance companies and pharmaceuticals even less, and these guys are running the show more and more. Ever been to Mexico, went into a legit pharmacy, and bought a drug you needed that you get prescriptions here in the US for, and seen how much it costs there? I have. Was on vacation and ran out of a prescription. Went to a pharmacy, was able to get it refilled, a whole prescription, for a third of the cost of what I pay for the same drug's copay here in the US! That's how much control these companies have over here. Though I absolutely don't trust the US government, I at least want to give it a chance. What we have now for healthcare is terrible, but what I've seen given to my father through the state I'm actually envious of wish I had it myself (it's not available to those who can get insurance by other means). At least give it a chance. That's all I want, is options.

reply to post by marg6043

Marg,
I think we're reading the same thing and what I see is that the public option (at least in the Senate version of health care) is indeed dead. That in fact we're going to get a plan backed by the insurance companies that basically gives the whole nation access to health care... and it lowers the age at which you can get medicare from 65 to 55.

If so, I have this to say: Howard Dean is right, if a Dem controlled Congress passes some crappy plan cobbled together with the insurance industry (who are buying this debate), and there's no robust public option in it, and in fact mandates national coverage but does nothing to cut our outrageous costs... and Obama doesn't veto it. I am going to be displeased, and I don't think I'm alone.

I still can't grasp how someone can justify spending all that money for doctors visits, I think it makes for crooked doctors to boot

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Much of the debate is purely political. If a Republican were in the White House, many of the same people who are saying it's a horrible idea would be singing its praises and many who support it now would be finding fault.

Hi, BH, good to see you again.
Anyway, I agree with the above sentence. However, the debate is not just political with common citizens; it is also true of Congressional members. Quite honestly, both parties play to their lobbyists. The democrats play to the trial lawyers, while the Republicans play to the insurance companies, while both parties trade their votes for pork(ala the $300,000,000 for Louisiana in exchange for a vote on health care).

I doubt any citizen does not agree that health care INSURANCE needs to be reformed. However, the bill which is now in the Senate, as of this morning, has no public option, to act as a counter-balance to private insurance firms. This was another compromise made to get votes, of course. In the end, the compromises encompass the WORST parts of "reform".
Wouldn't it be better to start over, and truly reform what needs to be reformed, namely the INSURANCE COMPANIES? This new bill does NOTHING to reign them in. Instead, it allows them to continue to raise premiums to obscene levels, bankrupting the nation, and costing Americans jobs.

reply to post by kenochs


Thank you kenochs! You took the words straight out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more. Options is exactly what we need. The pharmaceuticals and healthcare giants are the ones behind the fear that is beings created (in my opinion). They would stand to lose a lot in this case.

First, let me say that I know that our (U.S.) health care and health insurance industries are in dire need of repair. Repair meaning to fix what we have and not to replace.

The part that confuses me is how so many can be duped into believing they are or will be getting health care free. The OP stated Canadian health care is "free". Just because you do not have to pay a monthly insurance premium or a doctor/hospital bill, does not mean it is free. Does your doctor not receive monetary compensation for his services? If the hospital is not receiving money from someone, how is the electric bill paid?

I did a few quick comparisons, just to use as examples to prove my point. Canadians pay, roughly, $1.00 (U.S.) more for a gallon of unleaded gasoline than we do, about $4.00 more for a gallon of milk and about twice as much for a 10 lb. bag of potatoes. Why do you think that is?

Free? Nothing is ever free.

Originally posted by WTFover
First, let me say that I know that our (U.S.) health care and health insurance industries are in dire need of repair. Repair meaning to fix what we have and not to replace.

The part that confuses me is how so many can be duped into believing they are or will be getting health care free. The OP stated Canadian health care is "free". Just because you do not have to pay a monthly insurance premium or a doctor/hospital bill, does not mean it is free. Does your doctor not receive monetary compensation for his services? If the hospital is not receiving money from someone, how is the electric bill paid?

I did a few quick comparisons, just to use as examples to prove my point. Canadians pay, roughly, $1.00 (U.S.) more for a gallon of unleaded gasoline than we do, about $4.00 more for a gallon of milk and about twice as much for a 10 lb. bag of potatoes. Why do you think that is?

Free? Nothing is ever free.

AHHH...what?? a 10lb bag o spuds is about 5 bucks, so I dont know where you are getting your info. And that is all built into out cost of living, its life, its not a bill, its everyday things. I do not want for anything. I do not make a lot of money but I have everything I need/want. I think your examples are off for price of things, gas maybe but prices for food are not that extreme and I live on an island and we pay extra for stuff to be shipped in. I've heard some ppl say they spend 1100/mth in health care insurance premiums. I PROMISE you i do not spend over 13000 a year in taxes for compensation for health care.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by stereovoyaged]

reply to post by WTFover

The OP stated Canadian health care is "free"

IMO, the ones who constantly bring up the "it's free" slogan are the same ones willing to buy ocean front property in Kansas.

If people don't change their habits, healthcare will continue to be a problem.

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
I still can't grasp how someone can justify spending all that money for doctors visits, I think it makes for crooked doctors to boot

I have only a catastrophic health insurance plan, which, basically, means I pay for much of my health care out-of-pocket. As a result, I pay about $35 dollars for a doctor's visit. I think that is extremely reasonable.

reply to post by kenochs


Yes they are planning to do that to put more burden into the Medicare that is after all a tax payer mandate as an entitlement program taken out of our pay checks regardless if you want it or not.

Robbing the tax payer as usual, but what it bothers me is that Medicare is not free for everyone, my parents now over 65 have to pay from their SS funds for their Medicare coverage, still the health care bill, or whatever they have been concocting in congress, calls for millions if not billions of cuts to the elderly so what is going to be, putting the burden into a system that will be cut very hard, I don't get it, this mean more tax payer burden and less quality of life with a crappy health care.

Doesn't make sense.

reply to post by WTFover


No monthly premium??

reply to post by WTFover

I agree with you on taxes, nothing is free, I get that.

Though I think the poster was trying to be fascetious.

Here's the thing, do you think the taxes necessary to pay for a public option surpass my 1k plus monthly health care bill?

So, for me, it still makes sense. You can tax my gas, tax my cigarettes, tax my wingdings, hohos and snowballs.

But don't make me worry about whether I can afford to take my kid to the doctor.

reply to post by marg6043


I see your point and if it were true I would agree with you but the whole medicare is being cut thing is just outright false. Here's factcheck.org on this.

www.factcheck.org...
"The truth is that the pending House bill extracts $500 billion from projected Medicare spending over 10 years, as scored by the Congressional Budget Office, by doing such things as trimming projected increases in the program’s payments for medical services, not including physicians. Increases in other areas, such as payments to doctors, bring the net savings down to less than half that amount. But none of the predicted savings – or cuts, depending on one’s perspective – come from reducing current or future benefits for seniors."

The whole article is worth a read.
Still, I fall back on my insistence, robust public option or nothing.

I think a lot of Americans have the mentallity of our system is better because its our system and if it's American it has to be the best on the planet.

reply to post by stereovoyaged


10 lbs of potatoes in Canada = $5...I pay between $2.30 and $2.75. That's pretty close to twice the amount. It was pretty easy to do a quick search for Canadian food prices and they are considerably higher.

The reason is that your health care costs are passed on to those who manufacture your goods, wholesale your goods, retail your goods and provide your services. They, then, pass their costs down to the consumer. You may not pay that much more in taxes, but, the higher costs you pay for everything would, probably, come out about equal to ours.

reply to post by WTFover


There is no way I pay 13k in sales tax man, I only make 25k a year, I pay rent/bill/food/drink like a Canadian I have all the electronic toys and gadgets wear nice clothes and generally enjoy my money, no way 12k is buying that.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by WTFover

 

If people don't change their habits, healthcare will continue to be a problem.

Bingo! Live healthier, be healthier. And, a big problem is some who run to the doctor or E.R. every time they skin their elbow.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by WTFover]

reply to post by kenochs


I been in that site, thanks for the link, still whatever is going on in congress, it will have nothing but a big political grab attached and a big pay off for those that write the bills in congress, that means not you me or any of the tax payer in the nation.

Now the health care that Obama has been trying to pass before the end of the year, is going to be dragged as a political tool for mid term elections the news are that this bill or any bill will no be passed before next fall.

Because Republicans will drag it to use it against Democrats for seats in congress.

Yes, is a lot going on behind the scene, so for anybody that thinks that one side or the other is working for the people, let me tell you they are working for themselves and those that pays for their fancy campaign.





[edit on 9-12-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


You have the VA, Our state and Federal rep. have Health coverage paid for by my taxes, Christ even the Iraqi citizens have Health care covered by my taxes. Native Americans have a health service paid for by my taxes.
Medicare and Medicaid is paid for by may taxes.

Now explain why my taxes shouldn't pay for Health care for ME!!

Why do you want to force me to pay for the extravagant lifestyle of insurance excs and their stockholders; if I want to be covered?

Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for you to have the VA but deny your countrymen the same thing?

I wouldn't mind seeing a sales tax on everything to pay for health care for everyone.