Your Date With Destiny: Meeting the Real Jesus

reply to post by badmedia


Oh please don't stop posting.

I am in awe of your knowledge. And your ability to explain it so well.

Please stop twisting what I said you and I dont see eye to eye on anything obviously ..it is our argueing that is ruining Grammas post .
That is what I wanted us to stop doing .


[You honestly think that the only way someone can get the holy spirit is through the bible]


That is not what I think and you know it .I defend the bible as being the truth from men full of the Holy Spirit (like you and I believe we are ) but they were there and they witnessed everything Jesus did and said .I was not there so their opinions of what took place etc is something that I do believe is IMPORTANT and INFORMATIVE and detrimental for me to LEARN MORE about who GOD is and WHO JESUS IS and what our purpose is etc etc


And I am sorry that you think I just do lip service
but that is just your opinion of me and you are entitled to that opinion.




If you wrote a book on your true experiences and I wanted to know more about you (even more than what you have told me personally) I would buy your book and read it and even believe that it was the truth according to you .
So what is wrong with me thinking this same way about that bible ?

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

He answered your entire post point by point except for the last paragraph.

But to be honest anything that may cause you to stop your evangelical ranting could be a good thing, this thread has been very interesting to read but Im amazed BM even had the patience to sift through your posts. All the unnecessary capitilazation and excessive use of full stops make them very difficult to read, which is the opposite of the effect your trying to achieve I assume.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Him and I have been round and round every single thing already that was brought up in this post at least a thousand times since I have been on ATS.So this is NOT NEW for us to just stop talking about things because obviously our personal views of these things are set in stone so whats the point in us trying to get eachother to change our minds on anything.
Believe it or not SOMETIMES (on very rare occasions) I actually agree with him .

And I am sorry you see my posts as irritating (alot of people I am sure will agree with you because thats the way I am I suppose (maybe I am your devils advocate who knows lol) and so please feel free to just put me on ignore I certainly wont be offended by it .


Gramma I apologize for not being strong enough to abstain from argueing with Badmedia and his view on the bible and salvation.In your posts .(This happens alot in your posts and I sure want you to know It is not on purpose or for the purpose of just argueing with someone who I disagree with )
I really really try to avoid giving my opinions because I know I have strong beliefs and views and I am very passionate about them .And its hard for me to just stay silent .

I love you GRAMMA and I pray you have a very blessed Christmas

reply to post by badmedia


Greetings badmedia:

I have been sitting back and reading your posts with much interest. PLEASE feel free to keep posting on this thread as long as you wish. You have understood what I was trying to say about Jesus.


Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Simplynoone


Greetings Simplynoone:

Please, I enjoy watching you and badmedia tell us all what YOU BELIEVE and salvation is maybe something that should be brought up in every Christian thread. We only grow in our faith as we are provoked in our thinking and understanding. We are to sift through the sand (words) to find the diamonds.


Merry Christmas,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma


Thanks, and I am glad that you mention the importance of discussion and debate on these things. If not for people who disagreed with me, I wouldn't be able to post very much, because I'd be talking to myself.

I'm happy that you and others are enjoying the debate. This is how true "churches" are built IMO.

Merry Christmas Badmedia
And thanks for not posting your math problems when talking to me this time.(I really hate math )

I will see yall in about a week .Will be out of town with no computer so everyone have a great Christmas .

reply to post by badmedia

Now, tell me why doesn't Jesus tell that to the rich man. The rich man believes Jesus is the son of god, so why does Jesus tell the rich man to walk the path, rather than what you say?

Sorry it took so long for a reply.I live in Florida and we had some really nasty weather, long story short. Computer down. Now, to answer your ever pending question.

Having eternal life though obeying the commandments, and being delivered from the power and effects of sin are two different things. Just by obeying these commandments does not free you from sin.Only through the death of Jesus can one be saved.

Besides you are putting the word eternal out of context.

When the Rich young ruler asked the good teacher what he must I do to have eternal life, he was asking Jesus how to please god not live forever.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If the man was referring to everlasting life, Jesus would have said Believe in me. He did not

However, this is not the point of this scripture. The point was that Jesus was simply asking this man to examine the implications of what he was saying. Was Jesus either good and God, or bad and man.Read it again than think about it.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by oliveoil]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Merry Christmas Badmedia
And thanks for not posting your math problems when talking to me this time.(I really hate math )

I will see yall in about a week .Will be out of town with no computer so everyone have a great Christmas .

Be safe and Merry Christmas.

Thanks Olive you have a blessed Christmas too ...

Before I go (which will be tomorrow) I wanted to add a few of my two cents about the rich man .

The Lord knew where this mans heart was and it was his riches (worldy goods)
He stored up treasures on earth and that was where his heart was .
What is it that most rich men love ? Money
Scripture is clear about the LOVE OF MONEY
He told the rich man to go and sell all that he has and he could not do that.
He finds more security in the treasures he stored on earth more than the treasures he would have in heaven .(His priorities were not on heavenly things but earthly things)
And thats what I believe the whole rich man story was all about.


Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Having eternal life though obeying the commandments, and being delivered from the power and effects of sin are two different things. Just by obeying these commandments does not free you from sin.Only through the death of Jesus can one be saved.

The penalty for sins is death. A death that Jesus doesn't even die to begin with, and the entire reason he is "risen" is because he was sin free. The "risen" part is supposed to be proof that he was sin free, and thus a valid example.

In truth, Jesus never dies the death for sins. He dies the same physical death all men die(Psalm 82). He doesn't die the second death, thus is risen.

The rich man tells Jesus he has kept the commandments, and Jesus tells him there is 1 thing he hasn't done. And Jesus points out he values his riches more than anything else.

But you and the church would tell that rich man he only need believe in Jesus. And the rich man would be said to be going to heaven by the church.

Besides you are putting the word eternal out of context.

When the Rich young ruler asked the good teacher what he must I do to have eternal life, he was asking Jesus how to please god not live forever.

Mark 10: 21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

The man says he has kept the commandments, and Jesus shows him what he lacks. The rich man is saddened because he won't give away his riches. To which Jesus says:

Mark 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If the man was referring to everlasting life, Jesus would have said Believe in me. He did not

And yet, that isn't what Jesus told the man. I showed you what Jesus told the man, and you say that is not true.

Also, you completely leave open what it means to "believe in Jesus". But Jesus doesn't. Jesus says those who believe will keep the commandments, and that is not coincidence.

However, this is not the point of this scripture. The point was that Jesus was simply asking this man to examine the implications of what he was saying. Was Jesus either good and God, or bad and man.Read it again than think about it.

The point of what Jesus was saying is made clear in the response of Jesus.

Shouldn't the fact that you are having to do such things be a clue that you are wrong? It's downright amazing what lengths you will go to in attempts to avoid the simple truth of the matter.

The bottom line is Jesus never tells anyone what you say to be true. NEVER.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Annee

 

I don't believe this however I find it fascinating
The reason why I ask is because the Bible does say God is light.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Just a little weird. I was thinking that if light is energy and energy is matter than God is matter. Not what I believe , Just thinking out loud.

Bible also says he is spirit indirectly though.

Why would the Creator need to be matter? The Creator is a consciousness that creates by energy thought.

The Creator is "light" - light is energy - nothing exists but energy. All is a Creation of conscious thought.

Belief or Assimilated. I doubt there is anyone on this planet who is brought up without being assimilated into some kind of god belief.

No one starts off with a clean slate - - given the option (at age of consent) to pick from a list of religious choices - - after details of each is presented to them.

But that is what I did. I removed myself from pre-programmed assimilated belief. I gave myself a clean slate and went from there.

I took an objective view of the Christian religion and the Christ story. Considering it is far from an original story - - - and that identical/similar stories are told in even the most remote tribes - - originating thousands of years before Christ - - - it makes no sense at all. Christianity is built on the flimsiest of hearsay. To this date not one piece of evidence from the time of Jesus has ever been found to prove he really existed.

However - - as previously said. I do believe in the Watchers. That advanced beings are sent and have been sent from the beginning of human existence to help and guide us. To help guide us to evolved spirituality.

Could Jesus be an advanced being sent among humans to help them evolve spiritually? Absolutely. I just don't believe he is the only one. Is his message good? Yes! Is man's interpretation of it and how man has used it good? NO!

As far as Son of God - - - I subscribe to Suns of God. This can be interpreted in more then one way. One descriptive could be space craft glowing in the sun descending from the "heavens". Another descriptive is - - Light Beings radiating with an energy glow.

The God Source - - the Creator is of course the main consciousness. Gods are created by the Creator. There are many gods. But we would have only one main god in charge of humans and earth. So Yes! Humans have only one god.

reply to post by badmedia

The penalty for sins is death. A death that Jesus doesn't even die to begin with,

What are you smoking? All men die even the righteous. The penalty for sin is a spiritual death,Not a physical death.

and the entire reason he is "risen" is because he was sin free.

no,
the entire reason for his resurrection was to open for us the way to a new life.

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The bodily resurrection is the whole focal point of the gospels.

The "risen" part is supposed to be proof that he was sin free, and thus a valid example.
In truth, Jesus never dies the death for sins. He dies the same physical death all men die(Psalm 82). He doesn't die the second death, thus is risen.

Yes he dies a physical death just like all men.However, I think you are way confused in your thought as to being sin free and thus enabling him to be resurrected.Yes he was sin free but this had nothing to do with the resurrection.

The rich man tells Jesus he has kept the commandments, and Jesus tells him there is 1 thing he hasn't done. And Jesus points out he values his riches more than anything else.
But you and the church would tell that rich man he only need believe in Jesus. And the rich man would be said to be going to heaven by the church.

The Rich man was not asking how to get into heaven.( here you go twisting things around)He wanted to know how to please God.
To believe in Jesus is to be saved.Jesus told him to follow the commands, Not to believe in him (Jesus). re-read it.

Jesus says those who believe will keep the commandments

Where does it say this. please show me.

reply to post by Annee


If you go further, then you will see there is no "energy" either. In order to see it, you have to go beyond the perception of "time".

Take a vibration for example. You are seeing it as a "vibration" because it is being looked at in the concept of time. If you can see it without time, then you will see that it is static, and without movement.

I usually use a movie film to show this. If you take a movie film, and you stretch it from end to end and view the entire thing at once, then you are looking at that movie without the element of "time". They even have a factor which they call "runtime" on a movie, that is the rate in which the film moves etc.

But it is not until you take a limited perception of that movie, and view it 1 frame after the other that "time" enters into things. And as you look at that movie film in the limited perception, it has time and change.

This is the father/son relationship Jesus is expressing. They are one in the same. But the father is eternal and beyond "time". Thus the father would see the universe as static and without time. It is only when the father limits himself into a limited perspective(the son) that the perception of "time" and such exists.

So, while in the son perspective, you have "time" and thus the "vibrations". But in the father perspective, beyond time itself - it is static.

As the father is all knowing, it means the father knows all possibilities. This means that rather than a single film, or directors cut where there is no free will, all possibilities exist. What determines our perspective of the universe is the amount of knowledge/perspective we have. Our limited perception/knowledge and so forth.

You change "dimensions" all the time, although what most people think of dimensions as in another dimension is really just a bigger jump among the dimensions. This is how we reap what we sow.

Right now there are 2 possible futures for you. In the 1 future, you will raise your hands. In the other future you will not. What determines which future will come true is your choice - which one you do. If it was a single directors cut, no choice. That example is a simple one, which quick and obvious results.

But it works in other ways as well. If you go out today and rob a person, your future will likely include a jail. If you go out today and say something nice to a person, you may make a good friend. Reaping what you sow.

Amazingly enough, the universe in itself automatically adjusts to teach us the lessons we need to learn.

So, what Jesus does is show people the "Way" in this creation to get to heaven. And that can only be done by following the commandments. It's an actual path that has to be walked.

It's why it is so important that people keep the commandments and why Jesus puts such an emphasis on it over lip service. Giving lip service and you will still make the bad choices and reap bad things.

And when people believe in the blood sacrifice and do not keep the commandments and such, then they do not walk the path required. It is a deception that has been used for nearly 1600 years in order to get people into not walking the narrow path. Instead, they walk the broad path of death and destruction.

How can we expect to live in a society without murder if we ourselves murder? And so on. As Ghandi said - be the change you want to see. These things are available to anyone who seeks them. The only thing that changes among the cultures is how it is expressed, and then there is always the element of people who don't understand and repeat and do things contrary to the understanding.

Kind of got sidetracked a bit due to the rest of the thread, but it all ties in together. I'm not saying you are exactly "wrong" about the energy stuff, but if you can see it without the concepts of time, then you will start to see and understand more.

There is nothing "physical" about you, energy or otherwise. All physical is a possession, "you" are that which possesses. I think seeing what you are talking about is a step above what most people understand, but is still viewing within a limited perception.

Btw, the reason you can't see "God" completely and still exist is because the limited perception that is required for to "exist" as you do would be lost. It's why there is always that line you can't cross.

reply to post by badmedia


If I could star you here, I would!

Great post



[edit on 18-12-2009 by valiant]

Originally posted by oliveoil
What are you smoking? All men die even the righteous. The penalty for sin is a spiritual death,Not a physical death.

That is right, and Jesus does not die the spiritual death because he is risen, and thus does not pay the price for sins.

no,
the entire reason for his resurrection was to open for us the way to a new life.

The bodily resurrection is the whole focal point of the gospels.

Yes he dies a physical death just like all men.However, I think you are way confused in your thought as to being sin free and thus enabling him to be resurrected.Yes he was sin free but this had nothing to do with the resurrection.

If Jesus had not been risen, then it would have meant that he did not live a sinfree life, thus would have died the spiritual death and was not a valid example. If you follow his example and keep the commandments, then you too will be risen just as he was.

Fear not those who can kill the body, but that which can kill the soul. Ring a bell? And yet your entire sacrifice ritual is based on the death of the body, which isn't even the penalty for sins.

The Rich man was not asking how to get into heaven.( here you go twisting things around)He wanted to know how to please God.
To believe in Jesus is to be saved.Jesus told him to follow the commands, Not to believe in him (Jesus). re-read it.

Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

Jesus says those who believe will keep the commandments

Where does it say this. please show me.

John 14

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

reply to post by badmedia

Jesus says those who believe will keep the commandments

Where does it say this. please show me.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It clearly states that he says if you love me keep my commandments.
Not those who believe will keep the commandments.
see how you twist and turn everything.

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by Annee

 

If you go further, then you will see there is no "energy" either. In order to see it, you have to go beyond the perception of "time".

Take a vibration for example. You are seeing it as a "vibration" because it is being looked at in the concept of time. If you can see it without time, then you will see that it is static, and without movement.

I usually use a movie film to show this. If you take a movie film, and you stretch it from end to end and view the entire thing at once, then you are looking at that movie without the element of "time". They even have a factor which they call "runtime" on a movie, that is the rate in which the film moves etc.

But it is not until you take a limited perception of that movie, and view it 1 frame after the other that "time" enters into things. And as you look at that movie film in the limited perception, it has time and change.

This is the father/son relationship Jesus is expressing. They are one in the same. But the father is eternal and beyond "time". Thus the father would see the universe as static and without time. It is only when the father limits himself into a limited perspective(the son) that the perception of "time" and such exists.

So, while in the son perspective, you have "time" and thus the "vibrations". But in the father perspective, beyond time itself - it is static.

As the father is all knowing, it means the father knows all possibilities. This means that rather than a single film, or directors cut where there is no free will, all possibilities exist. What determines our perspective of the universe is the amount of knowledge/perspective we have. Our limited perception/knowledge and so forth.

You change "dimensions" all the time, although what most people think of dimensions as in another dimension is really just a bigger jump among the dimensions. This is how we reap what we sow.

Right now there are 2 possible futures for you. In the 1 future, you will raise your hands. In the other future you will not. What determines which future will come true is your choice - which one you do. If it was a single directors cut, no choice. That example is a simple one, which quick and obvious results.

But it works in other ways as well. If you go out today and rob a person, your future will likely include a jail. If you go out today and say something nice to a person, you may make a good friend. Reaping what you sow.

Amazingly enough, the universe in itself automatically adjusts to teach us the lessons we need to learn.

So, what Jesus does is show people the "Way" in this creation to get to heaven. And that can only be done by following the commandments. It's an actual path that has to be walked.

It's why it is so important that people keep the commandments and why Jesus puts such an emphasis on it over lip service. Giving lip service and you will still make the bad choices and reap bad things.

And when people believe in the blood sacrifice and do not keep the commandments and such, then they do not walk the path required. It is a deception that has been used for nearly 1600 years in order to get people into not walking the narrow path. Instead, they walk the broad path of death and destruction.

How can we expect to live in a society without murder if we ourselves murder? And so on. As Ghandi said - be the change you want to see. These things are available to anyone who seeks them. The only thing that changes among the cultures is how it is expressed, and then there is always the element of people who don't understand and repeat and do things contrary to the understanding.

Kind of got sidetracked a bit due to the rest of the thread, but it all ties in together. I'm not saying you are exactly "wrong" about the energy stuff, but if you can see it without the concepts of time, then you will start to see and understand more.

There is nothing "physical" about you, energy or otherwise. All physical is a possession, "you" are that which possesses. I think seeing what you are talking about is a step above what most people understand, but is still viewing within a limited perception.

Btw, the reason you can't see "God" completely and still exist is because the limited perception that is required for to "exist" as you do would be lost. It's why there is always that line you can't cross.

Behold the agnostic doctrine of Bad Media. Complete without err.(lol)
To bad this belief does not support the bible and Biblical theology.However ,I give you an e for effort.

Originally posted by oliveoil
It clearly states that he says if you love me keep my commandments.
Not those who believe will keep the commandments.
see how you twist and turn everything.

If you think I am the one who is twisting those verses, then I don't know what to tell you.

But since I guess you want to make the claim. What would be the difference between those who love Jesus and those who believe?

And feel free to address the other verses as well, rather than trying to take one, dismiss it as a "twisting" while ignoring the others.

Btw, have you noticed that I am always quoting Jesus, and most times you are quoting Paul?

Originally posted by oliveoil
Behold the agnostic doctrine of Bad Media. Complete without err.(lol)
To bad this belief does not support the bible and Biblical theology.However ,I give you an e for effort.

Just so you know, ridicule and such doesn't bother me at all. I got over those things as a child. I in no way seek your approval, and you only hurt your own arguments.