Hope for no E.T.S. or Carbon Tax in Australia.

It seems the new leader of the Liberal Party, our new opposition leader Mr Tony Abbott is determined not to have any carbon tax or emissions trading scheme, if elected next election. An early election may be called for.

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This means the coalition is almost certain to vote down the government's carbon pollution reduction scheme (CPRS), also known as the ETS, when it is re-introduced into parliament next year in a third attempt to pass it into law. "We won't have an ETS as part of our policy going to the next election, and we won't be having a tax as part of our policy going to the next election," Mr Abbott said. "There's no doubt we've changed our policy on this. "We have changed our policy on this, and we've changed our policy in response to what I think is a growing demand from the Australian people to see a contest in this area." The government is worried Mr Abbott, who quoted experts when labelling emissions trading schemes "rubbish policy" and scams, could undo all its good work towards building a bipartisan position.

News Article

Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

Peace all

Man has responsibility, not power. - Tuscarora

IMHO Abbott is merely a temporary, expendable leader for the double dissolution that may happen once the ETS is stifled. I think this will be a career killer for Abbott.

Personally I'm not a fan of the ETS.. but we need something that will bring us closer to living more sustainably.

IRM

You may well be correct on the expendable leader thing InfaRedMan , it's hard to get too excited about it when we have all heard the pollies say one thing and end up doing the opposite, only time will tell I guess, politics is a weird game.

But just maybe some more lawmakers will start to listen to the people one day soon. I'm all for reducing pollution, but not with taxes like these.

Cheers

I think they are gonna go around the whole libral party and give everybody a turn at leading

Personaly I think they are stalling for the next G20 where they will annouce a global scheme but thats just my personal opinon not sure realy sure what they are playing at realy but a double dissolution would work in Labors favor... Hmm might even give Labor the seats they need to overrule the Libs altogether.

Either way Australian politics are the moment is a mess, I to am for reducing polution and protecting our farmers rivers and fisherys but a carbon tax realy isn't going do do anything to fix them.

Edit: wish i could give you another S&F for you name and avatar Mad Max FTW

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Bachfin]

You know, up until Abbot was elected leader, like everyone else I thought the liberal party was headed for turmoil and many more years in political purgatory...now I am not so sure. If you actually listen to the details of the position taken, I think there is merit in their stance.

Why commit us to a costly scheme that has no demonstrable effect on climate change? Why lock us in to making everything more expensive when there is no guarantee the rest of the world will reciprocate? Why support a scheme that has the full backing of the leeches of society, the investment banks.

I think it is time for all Australian voters to take a deep breath, and educate themselves about the facts. I don't think anyone doubts we're having an impact on the climate, and I believe everybody in this country is keen to move forward to a greener future. Even Barnaby Joyce came out tonight on Lateline and stated he believes in climate change and that we need to act to a lower carbon emitting economy - surprise, surprise.

Regardless of the future of those in the Liberal party that have assumed the leadership, this last week has forced me to take a good hard look at what I know about climate change and how the proposed ETS was going to help the situation, and to be honest I came up blank.

I'm not the smartest cookie in the jar, so it's not so surprising I find it a complex issue, but the fact of the matter is, most of our politicians are just like you and me but have a little more charisma in general. I bet they don't understand the ETS either. Contact your local member and ask them to explain it to you.

It's too important an issue to rush through.

I am not so sure that Labor would win in a double dissolution general election.
The vast majority of people I have spoken to echo the sentiments here - 'Let's do something about pollution and climate change, but without hitting the average bloke so hard.'
It seems to me that we are all willing to make some sacrifices to ensure a greener future, but the massive increased cost of utilities and groceries was just too much for most families to endure, especially in light of the interest rate rises.
My own family, and all families that I have spoken to already do all we can to conserve energy and resources, both to save money and reduce our footprint, making us pay more for services, would only cost more and not reduce emissions at all.
If Abbott can back his claim of a green policy without imposing new taxes, he just might take the next election.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by ilandrah]

It will be very interesting to see what happens at Copenhagen, The majority of representatives going there want the E.T.S./Cap and Trade/Carbon Tax, and with climategate in the mix, should be interesting.

Hopefully not too much unwarranted violence goes on though. It has the potential to get ugly.

from what I have read so far the Copenhagen Treaty will be a tax on carbon. Monies collected from the total historical emissions of each Annex 1 (developed country) will be used to prop up the development of thrid world countries and those countries deemed most at risk of adverse affects of climate change (such as low lying islands).
Any government seeking to sign the treaty will need to have their own taxes in place to ensure they can meet the commitments of the treaty.
This is why Rudd wanted it on place before going there - he wanted to be able to show other leaders that Aussies had dutifully stepped in line and had everything ready to go. This would have probably earned him some serious brownie points (or so he seems to believe).
Instead it has been voted down.
Rudd has now ruled out double dissolution election (which would not have occured until next year) to instead offer 'One more chance" for the bill to be passed next year.
I think it has embarrassed him a little, but he still intends on trying to force it through so that he can be the golden boy.

At least the delay means that voters may be provided with the option to discover exactly what the Scheme proposed, and how much it was going to cost tax payers and businesses. Then we might be able to make informed decisions if it goes to an election.
The proposal that Abbott outlined this morning looks promising if he can back it up with some hard data. It will actually reduce emissions.

I don't think anyone expects green reforms to come free, we are all willing to make some sacrifices to help clean up our planet, but those exact costs need to be displayed as do the expected outcomes.
Carbon trading only appears to shift the problem and cause a whole bunch of money to change hands with no real benefits.

lastly everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that the Greens (who have since publicly attacked Abbott) also voted against the proposed Trading Scheme, as did the Nationals.
There surely had to be something dodgey in there.

You should read reconpilot's posts. Looks like Ozzie land has a lot ETs there already, and he was a terrific poster. I'd do searches for the threads with his posts in them.

reply to post by Snappahead


Yeah good points, very good.

Did you guys catch the Alex Jones show lastnight? He talked about the situation with Australian politics and he said that it looks like the second party 'The Librals' are against carbon trading and may take the next elections? interesting point I was of the opinion that Labor had it over on the libs ATM but maby im wrong on that.

There's no doubt in my mind that humans are having a negative effect on the planet with pollution but it's not carbon, humans only account for 7% of the total yearly carbon output of the planet. It's all the other chemicals in our oceans/rivers and air that need to be stopped and a carbon tax will do nothing IMO so stop any of that.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Bachfin]

reply to post by Bachfin

You are right, all forms of pollution need to be addressed.
I would particuarly like to see a policy for improving our water sustainability and improving the flow of all our rivers, in particular the Murray/Darling.

I took a good long look at the Greens at the last election, because like most people, I am concerned about the environment. After 3 hours of reading their polices on their website it was pretty evident that this party not only wants to protect the environment, they want to destroy Australia as we know it and turn it into a Utopia where we'll get rid of our Defence forces, open the borders for mass immigration and prosecute people that don't adhere to there extreme ideas of political correctness...

If that's your idea of what you want this country to become, then I guess you should vote for them - that's democracy and all that. I suspect most of the well meaning middle class that throw the Greens a vote have no idea about their policies that aren't related to the environment though...for me it's a scary thought to see them winning more seats in Parliament.

reply to post by Snappahead


Glad to hear some Aussies are looking at policies before voting - a lot of people I know seem to back a faction the way they do football teams.

I rarely vote for the smaller parties because it is often hard to tell where their preferences will go. The Greens backed Labor last election.

Seeing what you have to say about their policies is interesting and disheartening. It really doesn't leave us with any option for a strong economic and green future does it!?