The problem lies with us men!

I tell you what people. I have tried several times to quiz ATS members about some controvertial subjects , some not so controvertial subjects. And this subject about have a little more BALANCE, in our power systems seems to have faired no better.

There seems to be a lot of you men out there just making stuff up to back up your cause. Such as one chap quoting a line from the "300" as their basis for women manipulating men into combat. And another quoting abortion rates as a tarnish on women. Last time I looked us men could not carry babies. And excuse me if I symapthise.

- Father absenteeism in the western world is huge. There are good statistics showing single mums with no support from the father. If a man runs away from a relationshop (Which is very common) and leaves the woman moneyless, with a child and no support.
- Rape statistics is on the up including those resulting in pregnancy.
- Sexual Stupidity has always been very high amongst young people. Therefore yes there are those abortions which are 50/50 here.

So abortion is a touchy subject I know. But again, do the blame the person that pulled the trigger, or the person that put the gun in therehand and forced them to pull the trigger.

However, that has nothing to do with this post. So anyone wishing to bring up the Ethics of Abortion.....please find another thread.

Originally posted by kilas
And another quoting abortion rates as a tarnish on women. ...............However, that has nothing to do with this post. So anyone wishing to bring up the Ethics of Abortion.....please find another thread.

Nope,
I don't think so.
You see, when you spend your time telling everyone how evil men are because of things like war and make women out to be innocent victims in the world even though they will kill babies on a massive scale then you are basically lying to push your own agenda and not looking at reality as a whole. Women kill babies for their own convenience. Men kill for their reasons but it's all the same when we get down to brass tacks.

Life works both ways. You want the saints then you get the sinners as well. Women are just as bad as men. They just go about it differently.

As far as changing the 'power balance' have fun. More power to you.

If you get what you want then happy day. But the idea that you can pick and choose what is discussed in this "balance of power" between men and women thread so that women aren't 'tarnished', is childish.

Get them off of the pedestal. They are just as good/bad/ right /wrong/ dangerous as men are.

In your case, they are even more dangerous because you don't seem to realize it.




[edit on 3-12-2009 by badgerprints]

Originally posted by badgerprints
Facts don't lie.

I'm for it.

Now, where's my high paid, smart, new wife who's going to bring home money and pay the bills while me and Junior stay at the house and watch sports, go fishin and eat lunch at hooters every tuesday and thursday?

Not really on topic, but as a woman, I would actually be happy with the above.. but that's just me.

more on topic... I do not think "the problem lies with men".

I personally enjoy men.

I think the problem lies with stress put on people these days.. Maybe men don't live as long because they are overworked, underpaid and underappreciated. Maybe they drink more because they work long hours and just want a nice beer.

And as far as the sex offenders, it's probably like someone else said, men aren't as likely to tell if they are raped.

Not saying this doesn't apply to women. I'm just saying because usually it's men that are the providers of their family/in higher positions in the work force..etc.

Maybe women are the problem, maybe we should appreciate our men more or something.

I think I just went off on some tangent.

This is PC driven bollocks and nonsense.

Men and women are different, we have different drivers and priorities.
And that is as it should be, each as important as each other.

Behind most violent and destructive acts by men are the actions of manipulative and controlling females.

I have no axe to grind with women; they are beautiful and intelligent and have a role as equally important as that of men.
I just recognise that they have different thought processes to men and are much more subtle in obtaining their objectives.
This has become blurred as society has become more complex.

Originally posted by kilas
So thanks to my fellow man, we can all now be labled as the following:-

Violent , robbing, warmongering child molesting alchoholics, self defacing maniacs who can't look after their children.......but at least we are slim ;-)

Hey now - I take offense at that - I'm no robber!

So, perhaps it would be sensible to maybe following the Nordic Countries and force businesses and by law to have 50% female representation on company boards...

The problem with that is it then enforces the idea that there is a disparity between the two and the 50% women aren't on the company board because they deserve to be or have the right skills, but because it's a law. And it works conversly - you could have 50% of men being crap - do they deserve to "run the company?" Of course not.

It can't be based on this political correctness crap. It has to be based on "who's right for the job?" and gender or more specifically, the lack of a specific gener ratio doesn't guarantee success.

So my question in a round about way is: We have a lot to learn from our female counter parts.

So long as that doesn't mean I have to learn to "cry" during films or start emoting my feelings more.

I'm a guy. I'm not into that touchy-feelie crap. And my gf appreciates that fact. While she does make light of it often, she enjoys the fact that I'm not a sobbing, soft-hearted, pro-feminist.

I'm all for people being given the opportunity to show their mettle and have the same rights as the other - but to dictate that something "must" include a mandatory percentage of a gender ratio is silly. You then aren't basing your decision on success or business logic - it's on emotion.

reply to post by noonebutme


I think a lot of you are still blind to the facts. Why do people keep say that women are pulling the strings behind the scenes. Im open to the point, but can anyone provide me a shred of evidence, cases, literature, anything. If you can I would be interested.

By the way I'm sure women would take great offence if you think of them there only skill is " To Cry at films and have emotions". What?!?! Do you know any women? That might be more common place in women, but its got nothing to do with the essence of femininity or masculinity. Whats crying at films got to do with anything?


If you are saying that , do I think men should be softer, then no. Do I think me could be a little more in touch with feeling, then yes. I still dont quite get these points. Its the type of comments that just have no grounding . Its more typical comments that come from men who are trying to excuse sexism.

For the record, forcing certain Nordic Countries to have a 50% split in the board was met with intense hostility, from both men and women. But guess what.....it worked. Some of the most stable governments and businesses in the world are in that little north eastern part of Europe. Its measurable. Again, for all of you people that are turning this thread into a men vs. women competition please find somewhere else to rant. Its not about us vs. them. Its about the original question.

There are too many male figures on positions of power, why can't we balance this out with more female representation? Whats the issues here? Why is it not happening?

Originally posted by kilas
I tell you what people. I have tried several times to quiz ATS members about some controvertial subjects , some not so controvertial subjects. And this subject about have a little more BALANCE, in our power systems seems to have faired no better.

There seems to be a lot of you men out there just making stuff up to back up your cause. Such as one chap quoting a line from the "300" as their basis for women manipulating men into combat.

If you're referring to me and my "with your shield or on it", that wasn't a "quote from 300" it was a traditional spartan goodbye that wasworked into 300. Historically ignorant much?

- Father absenteeism in the western world is huge. There are good statistics showing single mums with no support from the father. If a man runs away from a relationshop (Which is very common) and leaves the woman moneyless, with a child and no support.

Look up parental alienation syndrome for the other side of this subject.

- Rape statistics is on the up including those resulting in pregnancy.

Actually rape stats are down and have been trending down for decades.




www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

A world run by women?

I can see it now......

France: "Germany, this is France, why are you attacking me?"

Germany: "Oh, I think you know why"

Originally posted by Freeborn
This is PC driven bollocks and nonsense.

Men and women are different, we have different drivers and priorities.
And that is as it should be, each as important as each other.
......
This has become blurred as society has become more complex.

"Complex" is a nice word for feminized, which is a euphimism for "pussified."

In schools across the USA, boys no longer play competitive games. Dodgeball, for example has been replaced with skipping rope and hop-scotch so that there are no "winners" or "loosers." Teachers are almost entirely female, and punish boys that display "agressive" activity.

And any suggestion that males should be taught by other males, in an all-male environment is met with cries from a feminized public that such a scenario would be ABSURD. WHY? Because.....then males wouldn't become "socialized in a democracy that includes a population of 50% females."

Women have created the problem, and refuse to help resolve it despite the clear historical evidence that allowing boys-to-be-boys is actually GOOD!

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Samsan]

Originally posted by kilas
By the way I'm sure women would take great offence if you think of them there only skill is " To Cry at films and have emotions". What?!?! Do you know any women? That might be more common place in women, but its got nothing to do with the essence of femininity or masculinity. Whats crying at films got to do with anything?

Most women should take offense at that, if that's what I had said.

At what point in my post did I say their [women] only skill is to cry at films and show emotions? I never said that.

I said that so long as the notion of men needing to learn from women *isn't* the cliché of expressing emotion and inner feelings, I'm all for it.

But please provide a list of the attributes, skills and qualities that men can (should?) learn from women.

I'm keen to know!




[edit on 3-12-2009 by noonebutme]

reply to post by Doglord


Whenever I hear anyone making comments such as the ones you are making, I wonder where they came from and if a "mother" was present in their life at all. The next thing I look at is their name. It is usually some power blaster name or it will involve a dog. Touche

reply to post by JBA2848


They are not frightened of making mistakes we, unlike so many of our male counterparts consider the consequences. What a concept!
We do not enter a fray half cocked and let the devil take the hindmost as is so often the formulation for success men employ.
The devil does not often want the hindmost and so we get stuck with that too. No. Careful consideration is given to many areas, components and consequences of our decisions including is it fair and does it include everyone. Women also listen where men think this is a weakness.
Studies have proved, (and yes I will locate them if I must) women are far better suited for management positions than men for all these reasons.

Fact: every thread on ATS that talks about male\female differences ends up with a male\female bashing fest, with neither side listening to the other.

Other Fact: I was talking to my wife about gender differences, and she responded by saying "Both of my parents have teeth".

And the primary lesson, nobody listens to anybody, and her parents still have their teeth.

Originally posted by Freeborn
This is PC driven bollocks and nonsense.

Men and women are different, we have different drivers and priorities.
And that is as it should be, each as important as each other.

Behind most violent and destructive acts by men are the actions of manipulative and controlling females.

I have no axe to grind with women; they are beautiful and intelligent and have a role as equally important as that of men.
I just recognise that they have different thought processes to men and are much more subtle in obtaining their objectives.
This has become blurred as society has become more complex.

Don't you think the make-up of the brain changes as well as the physical as we evolve?

The brain reacts to input. As women move away from stereotype - - and become independent in their choice of how to live - - - the brain will adjust.

And Don't tell me I have a "ROLE" equally as important as a man. I am who I am - - and Man has nothing to do with it.

reply to post by Annee


Why the hostility to any suggestion about woman having roles?

I don't understand?

Or is it hostility to any "labels" that people seek to judge you with? Or is it some belief that some\all men seek to keep woman down by labeling them?

I never understood the whole "us vrs them" attitude of some men\women. Isn't there some common ground to be compromised on? Some type of agreement that both genders can agree upon or must we continue to fight until one gender is eradicated off of the face of the planet?

To bad there isn't a hermaphrodite here to explain that men\women can co-exist in the same person.

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Whenever I hear anyone making comments such as the ones you are making, I wonder where they came from and if a "mother" was present in their life at all. The next thing I look at is their name. It is usually some power blaster name or it will involve a dog. Touche

And whenever I see someone making half-assed speculations or attempting to engage in dime-store psychology I know they have no actual points to make.

Originally posted by fishing
In the USA some of our men are led by our women too!!

You can't compare a women to a man.A man deals with problems through logic and reason.A women deals with problems through emotions and chance.

Now do you see??They are two different creatures.A majority of women would like to be men.In todays world women want men they can control.
They want an emotional man they can manipulate like a dog on a chain.
Our life spans are shorter do to the pressure of longer hours at our jobs.
The constant pressure of paying our bills and the constant nagging of our women have done this.

You see its the constant nagging that makes us drink more.I thought with todays technology a remote would be invented to mute them.I have my own conspiracy of this technology being held back by women.

hahahaha ... met some bad girls?

Originally posted by Freeborn


Behind most violent and destructive acts by men are the actions of manipulative and controlling females.

Prove it.

Originally posted by msnevil
reply to post by Annee

 

Why the hostility to any suggestion about woman having roles?

I don't understand?

Or is it hostility to any "labels" that people seek to judge you with? Or is it some belief that some\all men seek to keep woman down by labeling them?

I never understood the whole "us vrs them" attitude of some men\women. Isn't there some common ground to be compromised on? Some type of agreement that both genders can agree upon or must we continue to fight until one gender is eradicated off of the face of the planet?

To bad there isn't a hermaphrodite here to explain that men\women can co-exist in the same person.

You have no right to define a role for me. Define what makes me a "woman."

That's the issue. I define who I am. Not some stupid value set you hold in your head.