Oops! Arctic Ice Isn't Expanding, As Wingnuts Claimed. It's Thinning.

Oops! Arctic Ice Isn't Expanding, As Wingnuts Claimed. It's Thinning.

crooksandliars.com

WINNIPEG–One of Canada's top northern researchers says the permanent Arctic sea ice that is home to the world's polar bears and usually survives the summer has all but disappeared.

Experts around the world believed the ice was recovering because satellite images showed it expanding. But David Barber says the thick, multi-year frozen sheets crucial to the northern ecosystem have been replaced by thin "rotten" ice that can't support weight of the bears. "It caught us all by surprise because we were expecting there to be multi-year sea ice. The whole world thought it was multi-

(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: Corrected headline.



[edit on 12/1/2009 by maria_stardust]

Just thought this was an interesting addition to the on-going debate here on ATS regarding climate change. Susie Madrak who submitted this story said it best: "This video shows how scientists were misled. They thought the healthy ice was expanding, when it was actually thinning and spreading out over a wider area. I can't wait until all the right wingers who've been triumphantly pushing this as proof there's no climate change acknowledge they were wrong. I'll just sit here and hold my breath."

crooksandliars.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by mrsoul2009


Climate change as part of a recurring cycle = true

global warming due to human actions = false

how many humans does it take to stop climate change? more than we have here presently... alot more.

For comparison, Do we have a MAP of this "thick Ice" Then & Now?

Seriously, just asking... with all the fraud, lies, and money involved I would like to see some hard data.

I really don't know if GW is real or not. It is hard to tell when all of the solutions are a big SCAM so I have to take the alarmism with a grain of salt.

Here is the National Ice Center for the actual data.
www.natice.noaa.gov...

Sigh... "Right wingers"

The climate debate is no longer a scientific debate. (hasn't been for a long time)

It's a political mud slinging contest.

If people's purpose of debating something is not to forward knowledge but merely to call people names, I really wish they would just refrain from doing it.

reply to post by mrsoul2009


You can believe your Wing Nut article with the one Canadian expert's claims or:
Recent cold snap helping Arctic sea ice, scientists find

One with some scientific data as proof:

The cold is also making the ice thicker in some areas, compared to recorded thicknesses last year, Lagnis added. "The ice is about 10 to 20 centimetres thicker than last year, so that's a significant increase," he said.

Polar bears are not endangered!

Polar bear populations are not declining throughout their range. The total population is about 22,000 and stable. Dr. Mitchell Taylor, a biologist with the government of Nunavut, in Canada's Northwest Territory, says, "Polar bears are not going extinct" and do not even "appear to be affected." In fact, the Nunavut government continues to allow hunters to kill up to 500 polar bears a year to keep populations under control and preserve other wildlife species the bears feed on. According to Taylor, of the 13 separate polar bear populations in Canada, 11 are stable or increasing in number.

Polar Bear Status Report

The total number of polar bears is still thought to be between 20,000 and 25,000. However, the mixed quality of information on the different subpopulations means there is much room for error in establishing that range.

I find it interesting that the Wing Nut report would come out right before the great Copenhagen Environmental meeting! What a coincidence!

[edit on 30/11/09 by plumranch]

reply to post by plumranch

You can believe your Wing Nut article with the one Canadian expert's claims or:
Recent cold snap helping Arctic sea ice, scientists find

The date on that article about the ice thickening is Feb/08.

It was a cold winter and the ice thickened. A lot has gone down in the last year and a half since that report.

Funny thing about the debate over the "extent of polar ice cap" is that the main reason people are fretting over it is supposedly that the polar bears can't get to the seals to eat them if the ice is too far away to swim to [(did you know P.Bears can swim for many days (hundreds of miles) at a time, even sleeping/resting in the water as they are extraordinarilly bouyant due to the air trapped in their fur)(and that the bears seen in Al's phoney flick we're killed/drowned because of a "freak storm" that arose completely off season,and that only a couple of bears died out of 25,000)] or that there is no ice at all?

HMMM, let's see now, if there is no ice to go to, where are the seals "hanging out" at for the bears to find them and eat them?

Maybe it's better for there to be no ice so the seals have to "hang out" on shore where the bears don't have to go swimmin' around to find them, they will be right there on the beach, real handy to eat!

It really cracks me up about how people get so emotionally involved over a bunch of animals eating each other, I'd much rather have "Warm Weather then Freaking Freezing Butt Cold Weather", as I am not a seal trying to keep away from polar bears!

BTW, do you know that there is 25 times more Polar Bears today then there were 30 years ago, it seems they've been "doin' pretty well for themselves" lately since the Canucks stopped slaughtering them just for a stupid floor cover! (ever heard of Faux Fur)

Have Fun, and Stay Out of the Water if there are Polar Bears around!(stupid, you might get eaten!)

Originally posted by mrsoul2009


Just thought this was an interesting addition to the on-going debate here on ATS regarding climate change. Susie Madrak who submitted this story said it best: "This video shows how scientists were misled. They thought the healthy ice was expanding, when it was actually thinning and spreading out over a wider area. I can't wait until all the right wingers who've been triumphantly pushing this as proof there's no climate change acknowledge they were wrong. I'll just sit here and hold my breath."

crooksandliars.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I don't know where you have been but from what I understand the whole solar system is heating up, and I'm dam well sure we ( humans ) did not cause it.

reply to post by mrsoul2009


I notice you throw the derogatory term "wingnuts" into the title of your posting. Do you enjoy stirring up trouble or are you just naturally incapable of civilized thoughts?

Is it impossible to just state facts and keep the name-calling to yourself? I doubt for you but I'll always hope for a much improved ATS in the future with people such as yourself either able to talk in a civilized manner or banned for life... I don't really care much which.

Originally posted by mrsoul2009
I can't wait until all the right wingers who've been triumphantly pushing this as proof there's no climate change acknowledge they were wrong. I'll just sit here and hold my breath."

crooksandliars.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It is point blank stupid to assume that someone who accepts any specific science data is either left or right wing. And more to the point, its mentally weak of you to feel a need for vindication. As if just knowing the facts should be good enough. You know the facts and that is good. But you have a ludacris need to bash the "right wing" and that is stupid.

Have you heard the news... the whole right/left concept is going dead any way... so you may as well be arguing with a brick wall in a few years down the road.

reply to post by mrsoul2009


Wingnuts is a bit harsh mate but yes finally someone else saying global warming exsists who cares if it is man made or not bottom line is the poles ARE MELTING!!!!
Atlantis here we come

Um, hows about listening to someone who actually lives there?

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
Video from NSDIC (National Snow and Ice Data Center):
www.youtube.com...




[edit on 1-12-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by wayno

It was a cold winter and the ice thickened. A lot has gone down in the last year and a half since that report.

So you believe the polar ice melted away significantly since '08?

It seems that polar ice is very important when we consider the fate of the polar bears.

Polar bear populations are up significantly in some polar regions and down in others. Overall, the polar bear population is steady if not rising. But the experts admit that they really don't have a very accurate idea of polar bear numbers!

So either the ice is thicker or it is thinner, the polar bear numbers are up or they are down. You can believe some politician in Copenhagen or form your own opinion.

If you think you know, I think you are on thin ice!

reply to post by plumranch

If you think you know, I think you are on thin ice!

Good one!

Actually there's wisdom in them there words. My concern is that too many people are taking hard line stands on this issue as if they know it all; many times for political reasons.

I do believe that the ice is melting; in spite of a couple of cold years. Why, exactly, I couldn't tell you. I think it is more important just to look at it realistically instead of fighting over the reasons, because they are hypothesis and conjecture for the most part.

If there is something realistic we can do to lessen our impact on the ecosystem; then we should do it whether or not it has a major or even minor role in the big picture.

Being cavalier about the way we pollute is stupidity. Its time to stop arguing and start taking action. If the world is heating up because the whole universe is heating up, or because of our negligence doesn't matter. We have to adjust to the new reality either way and do whatever we can to minimize the negative effects. (while enjoying any benefits that might come along such as a beach holiday on Baffin Island .

[edit on 12/1/2009 by wayno]

reply to post by wayno

many times for political reasons.

Here in Alaska we are used to know it all environmental and political types coming in regulating and locking up Alaska. We're still chaffing over several of the high handed actions of for instance Carter and Clinton.

There was no proof that polar bears were endangered yet we had the Endangered Species Act applied to polar bears last year. We know that the environmental types would love to come in and declare all off shore activities illegal based on polar bears if they possibly could.

My guess is that polar bears are very adaptable and could change their habits easily to accommodate more or less ice and changing food sources. It's easy for lower 48 experts that have never seen a bear, an ice burg, or the North Slope to tell us up here how we should manage and we just love it!