Extraterrastriality: The Birth of a New Religion

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
I don't think ET is coming. I think its just fabrication and wishful thinking.

Well, that's fine Hank. So perhaps then we need TWO versions of your "religion" (though, for some strange reason, I'm still a bit uncomfortable with that tenet).

If the one group you seem to take some delight in chastising can be coined (by you) as "Extraterrestrialists", then what do we call the camp you fall into? The "Anti-Extraterrestrialists"? The "Ludicrousarians"? "The Way-of-the-NO-WAY"?

I mean, really, I have a lot of respect for your postings over the years, Hank. I'm just having a little trouble trying to ascertain your motivation here. Actually, I'm a bit surprised. I always took you to be one that more or less straddled the fence. Like many of us, I thought you were more of an...

AGNOSTIC. An agnostic -of any religious flavor- simply says that we DO NOT YET KNOW. We just don't have the irrefutable first-hand empirical evidence to prove existence.

Sure, many claim to have "seen" or "heard" or "witnessed", a la Greer's pals and that ilk. But that's not proof.

Many here and elsewhere have posted the ubiquitous fuzzy, dancing lights in the night sky YouBoob videos. Interesting. But not proof.

Abductions, autopsies, alien encounters, memes, hoaxes, non-hoaxes, radar, sonar, blah, blah, blah. Thousands of such incidents have been reviewed by many of us - you included, I suspect. But alas - none of it is proof-enough.

Neither skeptics nor religiously-inclined zealots are we, Hank. We simply do not yet have enough indisputable and verifiable evidence (operative words there) to state, unequivocally that ET exists. We are, as yet, ET-Agnostics.

We're getting there, however. NASA et al has increased tremendously their Astrobiology research funding. Water on the moon, tiny terrestrial-like planets orbiting distance solar systems, exobiological extreme environments - these are all bona fide research interests (some of which I am involved in) that seek to find that elusive holy grail of the cosmos: ET.

Not the ET of Hollywood or e.g., Boylan's "StarPeople", or Greer's teletransporter Disneyesque fantasies. No sir. The real deal. They're out there. Increasingly astronomers, cosmologists, and other thinkers and professionals the world over are convinced that the odds are overwhelming and discovery of life outside Earth (extraterrestrial life) is imminent.

That doesn't make us some kind of religiously-driven "Extraterrestrialists" or whatever label you wish to place on our backs, Hank.

We're patient, we'll just keep doing the research, following the Scientific Method, until we can share, among our peers and fellow humanists, that we are no longer, in fact, alone. We're not there yet, but (if I were in a gambling mood) my educated guess is that we will be soon - within a decade at least.

Some argue that we are already visited, have been for many years, centuries perhaps - the truth is merely being denied us by TPTB, secret government agencies, the illuminati, NWO, and/or religious fanatics (how ironic would THAT be, eh Hank)?

However, if that is true, and it maybe it is, then it does not further our cause for the truth because the truth is being denied us. Again, thus we must maintain the ET-agnostic posture: truth denied or truth undisclosed is, sadly once again, not proof. It is not truth if it is not true for all inquirers. A privileged few may know (or not), but until they share that truth it is theirs alone (and they know it).

So, Hank et al, do not lump me (and many others it seems) into a bucket of Extraterrestrialists or what-have-you. Not yet. Nor are we die-hard skeptics. We are neither - and will remain so until the FACTS, as they may be ascertained, are discovered, tested, repeatedly confirmed, and made public.

At that point, we still will not be Extraterrestrue-alists, Hank. We'll merely continue our work, our hunger for knowledge and discovery, our own brand of scientific "enlightenment" if you will.

Of one thing I can assure you: When the initial ET-discovery is made (my guess it will be a simple microbe on a moon or comet, etc.) our collective outlook on life itself, and many institutions of religion of all kinds around the world (even pseudo-religions like yours, Hank) will be scrambling to change, to adapt, to reconcile -as they must- to survive.

Until that day, Hank, I bid you well. And all others that struggle to understand, label, identify their thoughts. It's healthy. It's constructive. It's to the same end - and it serves us in good stead.

Thanks for the thread!

Carry on...

In the meantime (my signature), as always...

[edit on 11/16/2009 by Outrageo]

I'll have to wait for the non-religious ET to arrive if this turned out to be another religion. Really, how many religions can this planet sustain?

Originally posted by tungus
I'll have to wait for the non-religious ET to arrive if this turned out to be another religion. Really, how many religions can this planet sustain?

...At least one more, apparently...

Although "sustainment" can be dubiously misleading. Extarterrestrialism may sustain for days or decades. I'm betting the former.



[edit on 11/16/2009 by Outrageo]

Originally posted by Outrageo

Originally posted by tungus
I'll have to wait for the non-religious ET to arrive if this turned out to be another religion. Really, how many religions can this planet sustain?

...At least one more, apparently...

Although "sustainment" can be dubiously misleading. Extarterrestrialism may sustain for days or decades. I'm betting the former.



[edit on 11/16/2009 by Outrageo]

My bad. I meant to say "endure" or "suffer". The planet may be able endure one more religion but I'm up to my limit.

This is a fascinating thread.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 11/17/2009 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by HankMcCoy

* S: (n) religion, faith, religious belief (a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny) "he lost his faith but not his morality"
* S: (n) religion, faith, organized religion (an institution to express belief in a divine power) "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

di⋅vine
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to a god, esp. the Supreme Being.
2. addressed, appropriated, or devoted to God or a god; religious; sacred: divine worship.
3. proceeding from God or a god: divine laws.
4. godlike; characteristic of or befitting a deity: divine magnanimity.
5. heavenly; celestial: the divine kingdom.
6. Informal. extremely good; unusually lovely: He has the most divine tenor voice.
7. being a god; being God: a divine person.
8. of superhuman or surpassing excellence: Beauty is divine.
9. Obsolete. of or pertaining to divinity or theology.


I don't see why you would equate a more advanced sentient creature to a God like entity.

Do you think people interested in extraterrestrials actually worship them?

My guess is most of the people that will want to worship aliens are probably already part of another religion anyway and don't have much interest in them...yet.

The question you should be asking is what kind of religion might aliens have?

Originally posted by Outrageo
Not yet.

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
I believe we are on the cusp of a new religion that -will- overtake a lot of the older religions in the world ..in a thousands years or so..

Heya Outrageo.

While I generally do try to keep an agnostic bead, for the purposes of this thread, I have let my doubts entertain a world of the future where Intelligent ET has not come, but he is revered because of exactly the types of things you discuss in your post. Astrobiology, Water on the Moon, heck, even ET Microbes.

While I will admit, this thread was a little tongue in cheek, the principles I am outlining are the path to religion. You may never become an initiate into this religion. I doubt there are many on the planet right now that would. However, that's not to say that your children wont, and their children wont, and as the beliefs in ET strengthen, a true religion may very well take hold.

I want to reply to a few more of your points.. but I just do not have time right now.I will get back to it later.

Just keep in mind, I am not trying to 'get down' on anyone for their beliefs, and I think that someone being offended about me saying that their beliefs appear to be turning religious says more about that persons opinion of religion than my opinion of their beliefs..

We all just want the truth, whatever that means.

reply to post by HankMcCoy


Good 'nuff, buddy...

This line has me scratching my head a bit:

...I have let my doubts entertain a world of the future where Intelligent ET has not come...

What doubts might those be? That ET blows us off? That he satnds Earth up and never shows up to his own party? Blasphemy! Dreadful poor manners, no? To hell (oops) with the whole lot of them, er, NONE of them!

I also notice the qualifier, "Intelligent" now conspicuously a part of this passage. Interesting. So if ET has, for the moment and sake of this argument, self-awareness, does that satisfy the definition of intelligence? How about malicious (or benign) intent? Certainly that would be considered intelligent - especially on the scale we lowly unwashed human masses measure such things by.

I see where you're heading with this (I think). Allow me to abstract: Humanity will invent a singular or group deity or entity to worship at some point in the future to substitute for the real thing that fails to materialize. Am I close?

That's a very curious thought-experiment to ponder for a while. What happens to the Extraterrestrialists and their faith if and when the elusive visitors (i.e., the, um, 'intelligent' ones) ultimately make themselves present and accounted for? Do the faithful continue on, finally vindicated? Do they instead go bonkers, even Jim Jones/Karesh-style when they are denied even coach seats for the trip "home"? Perhaps they'll throw in their collective towels and find a new vaporous (or vacuous) non-manifestation to worship anew? Perhaps they can convert to LochNessians or Chupacabrialists?

In the meantime, it's fun reading about what others might have to say about this - conceptually at least.

Oh, you're a slick one, Hank. Hey - Perhaps you'll entertain us with your own beliefs, eh? You know, to spice the conversation up a bit, if nothing else.

I'm sure if enough weigh in we can eventually reach a consensus on His (Her? It?) Holy-ET-ness.

In any case - your threads are some of the most provoking and stimulating on the board, Hank (though you've been on ATS hiatus as of late - how come? contemplations on a mountaintop somewhere?) - so thanks again for posting this up. Let's corral some of the long-windeds, I mean, long-timers, and hear what they may say...

Until then, Bless...





[edit on 11/16/2009 by Outrageo]

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
You may never become an initiate into this religion. I doubt there are many on the planet right now that would. However, that's not to say that your children wont, and their children wont, and as the beliefs in ET strengthen, a true religion may very well take hold.

It's obvious to me that you keep confusing the inherent condition, and even need, of some humans to believe in a higher power in general, with this particular subject (ufology).

You worry that our children or grandchildren could turn the possibility of extra-terrestrial life and visitation into a religion as "beliefs in ET strengthen". Yes, there's always that possibility - but considering the predisposition of some percentage of humans to believe in higher powers that can happen always, regardless of ufology.

What if tomorrow there's huge cataclysms, most of our history gets lost and by chance only Harry Potter books happen to be saved? Undoubtedly some people, eventually, would make a religion out of it and adore Harry Potter and other characters of that fictional story as gods who once roamed the Earth.

Your whole premise is also based on the notion of the beliefs in ET strengthening. That's based on the assumption, of course, that the possibility of extra-terrestrial life and visitation will always be no more than just that - a possibility.

In sum, your rant should be directed at people and not ufology in particular.

It's however clear that you have an intense dislike for ufology, as you probably consider the notion of extra-terrestrial visitation nonsense from the start, hence this thread.


[edit on 17-11-2009 by converge]

I find it so hard to reply on this site. Since there are all these opinion?

As far as the new religion goes:
My opinion thus, is that every religion grabs on to a past.
How things where.

And if what is said here is true, again we enslave ourselves to somekind of dogma, that there has to be somekind of religion to keep us all in line...

So there we have it: One guy knows more about being the best religious guy then the other.

So let's chose him to keep that faith for us, he is the priest.
With his own opinion and interests...

The one we appointed in the first place dies, we would have to:
1- chose another
2- trust his decendants can do the same wonderfull job

Next we have people getting jealous and wanting that power as well.
Of course they would wanna try to seduce option 1 or 2 into sharing.

Maybe he/she refuses do that but what about the next generation(s)?

Corruption lurking.

The answer to this religion thing:

E-VO-LU-TION!!!

There will be one day where we decide as a whole.
A day where we do not need an Illuminati LAW or a Enlightened/Darkned supreme PRIEST.

That day is called the day that we become as one unified contious being.

There will be nor the room, nor the will to own and dominate. There will be only us.

That day is not yet to come, not even in 2012.

As far as aliens go± These are the bastard. These are actually interfering with our sacret evolution of our contiousness. If they indeed where here millions of years ago to `alter` (you should read genetically modify) us, the I would say: f*** you alien bastards!!!

Michael Jackson quote:

What about us?!

How dare they interfere with OUR evolution!!!

Anywho Aliens suck! Us people are stuck with their mess!


[edit on 25-11-2009 by Sover3igN]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by Sover3igN]

I was thinking about making a thread like this and decided to see if one already existed. This is pretty much spot on to what I wanted to say.

I would also add the "Sky Noises" to the list of miracles happening.

XD