Fascist UK - Police Politicised

reply to post by foxhoundone


No, not "so be it". Your argument fails at the very beginning with "terrorism". If you are scared of some bogey men, that's your problem, I'm not. Dark skinned people from Afghanistan don't bother me, dark skinned people from Sheffield don't bother me. And I'd rather not have a bunch of cowboy's running around deciding who's a terrorist. Did you learn nothing from the Jean Charles De Menezes event? Sadly it would appear not.

Jean Charles de Menezes (pronounced [ʒeˈɐ̃ⁿ ˈʃahlis dʒi meˈnezis] in Mineiro Portuguese) (7 January 1978 – 22 July 2005) was a Brazilian national shot dead by police at Stockwell tube station in London, England. He was shot in the head seven times at close range by Metropolitan Police officers ("The Met") who misidentified him as a suicide bomber about to explode a device on the London Underground. Within hours police discovered that he was not involved in any terrorist act, but was actually an innocent victim. Immediate and later accounts of what happened on the day of the shooting published in the press contradicted each other, specifically on the manner and clothing of Menezes as he entered the station, and the presence of police warnings before firing. The shooting sparked public debate over an apparent change in police policy, in which a shoot to kill practice known as Operation Kratos had been introduced to deal with terrorist threats.

wiki



[edit on 16-11-2009 by quackers]

Originally posted by Britguy
This sort of action is nothing new. The same tactics were used going all the way back to the miners strikes in the 80's and likley before that too - well before the days of everyone being online.

I still have my suspicions about the EDL and who, ultimately, is behind it. I don't mean it's public face and spokespeople, but the seed money and setup of the organisation. Sure, they have a growing membership made up of members of the public but seem to have a narrow focus, something which leaves them open to charges of racism etc, in much the same way as the NF and BNP always were.

I agree, although personally i think that both sides (EDL AND UAF) are being manipulated by the powers that be to cause civil unrest between the natives and the minorities.

I think this could lead to more laws being passed to combat the far right groups as a "Problem, reaction, solution" scenario is in full flow.

Originally posted by Britguy
This sort of action is nothing new. The same tactics were used going all the way back to the miners strikes in the 80's and likley before that too - well before the days of everyone being online.

I still have my suspicions about the EDL and who, ultimately, is behind it. I don't mean it's public face and spokespeople, but the seed money and setup of the organisation. Sure, they have a growing membership made up of members of the public but seem to have a narrow focus, something which leaves them open to charges of racism etc, in much the same way as the NF and BNP always were.

I agree, although personally i think that both sides (EDL AND UAF) are being manipulated by the powers that be to cause civil unrest between the natives and the minorities.

I think this could lead to more laws being passed to combat the far right groups as a "Problem, reaction, solution" scenario is in full flow.

reply to post by foxhoundone


I disagree mate. I myself served a 3 and a half year stint in NI when it was bad. We knew who all the main "players" were, from where they lived, what car they drove, what they did for a living and covertly tracked their movements, overtly too at VCP's where we would stop them, and say "hi (insert name) how ya going? Hows the wife (insert name)?," in other words letting them know we knew them and were watching, then we would let them go, but another team around the corner would stop them. We did that to make their life a misery and disrupt their movements. However those guys were a SERIOUS threat and not just a normal joe exercising their G-d given right to democratic protest. Which we also helped to protect when it came to the easter and july marches. However during those times, and at funerals etc, we used to have guys taking pics for inteligence purposes.
When i left the army, i moved to NI because my spouse was from newtownards, and saw the other side of it, with some members of the police being "involved" with paramilitaries, and both them and the paramilitaries made life hell for me, forcing me to move back to england.
What im saying, is that there is a big difference from anti terrorism ops to outright facism when the jackbooted plods stop freedom of protest through intimidation. It just fuels the fire and creates paramilitaries. I believe that what is going to happen here...

[edit on 103030p://f58Monday by Selahobed]

Originally posted by kayne1982
I agree, although personally i think that both sides (EDL AND UAF) are being manipulated by the powers that be to cause civil unrest between the natives and the minorities.

I think this could lead to more laws being passed to combat the far right groups as a "Problem, reaction, solution" scenario is in full flow.

I think you're right. And that's what foxhoundone doesn't grasp. There is barely a threat from Islamic Terrorists (radicals and Shariah yes, but not mass-killings) and yet our government ramps up the idea that there is as part of a "Problem, reaction, solution" scenario. It's their way of curtailing our liberties.

Foxhoundone, is that a Royal Ulster Constabulary insignia as your avatar?

reply to post by Bunken Drum

Its the Royal irish regiment but i appreciate the joke, LOL
2nd line ATS aware

reply to post by Cythraul
Cythrau you stated this matey..

I think you're right. And that's what foxhoundone doesn't grasp. There is barely a threat from Islamic Terrorists (radicals and Shariah yes, but not mass-killings) and yet our government ramps up the idea that there is as part of a "Problem, reaction, solution" scenario.

OK Cythrau what about the scottish airport "human bombs" attempt
remember they failed an attempt down south and aborted to go for the Scottish airport.
What about the time they intercepted the trawler going up the Thames heading for parliament buildings, Played it down and said it was only sugar?
Sugar mixed with ammonia nitrate equals a big huge bomb lads... (anas)
Please correct if wrong thanks..

Originally posted by foxhoundone reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

Its the Royal irish regiment but i appreciate the joke, LOL 2nd line ATS aware

Ah, I see. Actually, I was only 1/2 joking!
Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining to us why you think that the suppression of political dissent would make catching terrorists any easier?
On another tack, if Al Qaeda really exist in any form like they are presented to us in MSM, they must surely be the most inept bunch in the history of terrorism. Compare to the IRA... Constantly under surveillance, infiltrated, their bases of operations & grass roots support under de facto military occupation, hence their ability to travel abroad undetected severely compromised... & yet, they managed to blow up the govt. of the day. I'll tell you, I'm a lot more afraid of armed British police than I am of people who try to blow up a plane by setting fire to a shoe! Like, yeah, that was going to work, eh?

reply to post by Bunken Drum

OK put the fear of god into him, make him extremely paranoid ,Turn him and hey presto you have a man on the inside, excellent way to gather Intel,
Or taken to another extreme get him to post his story on a conspiracy website,
Gather support and hes got his cover right..
That's even if the OP is truthful..

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by william76
[ i who should be challenging your intelligence

Go ahead.

All my information, comes from well informed sources and individuals.

why should i ? like i said i dont want to come across as ignorant as you.
i have admitted i didnt do any research, a matter which i have now rectified. this is a DISCUSSION forum and given the relevance of my story to the OP i thought it would provide some insight into the discussion and what do i get from you ? laughed at for not researching. remember this was my first post. i am new to these discussions, maybe a little friendly advice would have been more appropriate. to challenge my honesty really shows you up in a bad light and im very disappointed.

Originally posted by foxhoundone
But you get my drift don't you, There needs to be a homeland security type agency in the UK, I firmly believe there will be some sort of payback from some terrorist group and it will be a biggy, We need all the intelligence/security measures to denigh them this opportunity IMO..
If that means UK lockdown so be it !!...

what your saying is contradictory to the situation. the reason the SDL or EDL is protesting is because TPTB are letting islamic extremists enter the UK and openly preach hate on the streets of britian but nobody is allowed to speak out about this. nobody said there shouldnt be security but if that security is letting islamic extremists away with preaching hate then they are not doing thier jobs. stopping them spouting thier venom would be a step in the right direction in in denying them thier opportunity surely.

to answer the main question of the thread anyway

is the UK facist and are the police politicised then the answer is YES.

one side of the argument was allowed to demonstrate and state thier views and the other was silenced - FACT

this is not a democracy.

were the police compliant in these FACIST actions ? YES - FACT

i feel i have the answered the OP. thanks for bringing it up cythraul. you have shown up this facist state for what it has become. top marks

end of discussion for me.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by william76]

reply to post by foxhoundone Turning informants? You're clutching at straws mate! The security services can do that without having to affect anyone's right to protest.
In fact, the police have been suppressing dissent systematically & regularly since '83, that I can personally attest to, over things like the Poll Tax, Travellers & Free Festivals, collapsing economy, Globalisation, various wars, environmental issues, nuclear weapons, fox hunting, racism, you name it; the nod comes from on high & the police do whatever they can get away with to shut people up. Did this stop IRA terrorism? No. That took a negotiated settlement. Did it stop Islamic terrorism? Apparently not, although I'm very suspicious about the circumstances of 7/7.
Still, lets consider an even more authoritarian approach... In N Ireland, what happened in response to internment, trial without jury etc? Ordinary people were incensed & the IRA gained more support. Historically, Britons are a vocal & potentially riotous bunch, but we very rarely turn to outright murderous violence against each other. However, that is because we have had at least a semblance of political representation. Times where that has been abridged are the times when we've really kicked off. Its the same all over: ignore people & oppress them & eventually, some will turn to violence to be heard. This descent into fascism will more than likely create the very situation you're advocating it be employed to prevent.
As for whether the story in the OP is true, it is exactly the kind of thing British police do (see examples in prior post), so I'm content that it probably is.

Originally posted by quackers
How exactly are the police supposed to have gleaned their IP addresses? Did these people post on a public forum? Is one of that forums admins in cahoots with the piggies? Also, I'd be calling my ISP to inquire the curcimstances of a possible breach of the data protection act, unless they have a warrent issued to them to release your details. In order for that to happen the police would need to have convinced a court that there was a high possibility of a crime being commited. It would all have a paper trail, and would not be too difficult to trace back. Unless it isn't true.

so they still need a warrant in Britain to get addy info from isp? Not so here in america - they can scoop up whatever they like from the internet without so much as a by-your-leave and have you down to the jail house for a little talk - in fact they can do all this and then prevent you from speaking about it to anyone on pain of immediate incarceration without the benefit of appearing before a judge to state your case...Habeus Corpus [the right to appear before a judge] was suspended several years ago...or they can simply follow you around for years, as happened to a friend of mine....and the march of Fascism continues unabated...

reply to post by realshanti

Seriously? Then things are far worse in America than I realised. You guys well-and-truly live in an overtly fascist state. It's about time people started getting angry.

Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by realshanti

 

Seriously? Then things are far worse in America than I realised. You guys well-and-truly live in an overtly fascist state. It's about time people started getting angry.

yeah one would think its past time to get angry - and some are moving in that direction but there is still a lot confusion and "stupid" talk - in other words people still enthralled with left and right politics and not seeing past the spin to the meat of the problem - thats why I return again and again to ATS - Speaking of Fascism - Javier Solana and the EU is certainly on the move these days - what is your take on these guys? - don't mean to stray off topic but doesn't this organization bear on these issues of police state tatics ?