Israel's dark view of the world

Israel's dark view of the world

www.guardian.co.uk

The official explained to Bibi Netanyahu that if there was a peace settlement, extra investment would push Israel's long-term growth rate from 5% a year to 7%. The Israeli prime minister responded that if the country had 5% growth, it did not need peace.

Several Israelis at the conference complained that, having sprung from European civilisation, they were now among its last defenders, given that the high birth rate of Muslim immigrants and Islamist ideology were undermining that civilisation

(visit the link for the full news article)

I found the article to be somewhat fair and was one of the most interesting articles i've read in a very long time.

I highly reccomend it, it's actually a great read.

I do think someone better than Hamas governing Gaza would be good for Gazans, I just feel that with hamas israel wins and gazans lose.

Look at this:

Many Israeli politicians and businessmen have a dark view of Europe. At a conference I attended in Jerusalem, one minister – a noted dove within the Israeli government – complained about the influence of Muslim minorities on the foreign policies of EU countries. I told him that Germany and the Netherlands, two states with large and vocal Muslim minorities, were among Israel's best friends in Europe. He countered that the Czech Republic and Poland, which had very few Muslims, did not criticise Israel. And he claimed there was a direct correlation between the willingness of British MPs to criticise Israel, and the size of the Muslim minority in their constituencies.

What's your opinion on the above?


www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I'm not sure how valid that last point is. The UK is not anti-Israel, not by a long shot. But there are some British MPs who simply point out fascism and totalitarianism wherever they see it, including Israeli policy. That is not to say Parliament is pro-Hamas or pro-Palestine. I mean we do have a large responsibility in the creation of the state in the first place, it is our bastard child.

Though one can see the "conspiracy" of a Muslim invasion in planned retribution. And a democratic nation leaves itself open to corruption by its nature. I can see Muslims being upset about pro-Israeli policy from the US and the UK, and their way to deal with that, rather than our brutish methods, is to eat away from the inside, and force policy change through the very democratic process than enabled the state of Israel to exist in the first place. It would be a very cunning plan indeed.

If you want to know my opinion :
Netanyahu saying that country with 5 percent economic growth does not need peace - if he indeed said it he is an idiot.
Israel being bastion of Europe - ehmmm, i have been to several European countries and Israel is not Europe. Not only geographically but also culturally. Israel is a mix of a lot of things boiling together in one giant pot and things are changing daily,it is both strength and weakness. And if Europe needs protection (not sure at all of that) , tiny Israel that has problems protecting itself is not an answer.
I just hope that our (Israeli) politicians would realize sometime that we are in Middle East and our neighbors are not Czech republic or Holland, but Jordan, Egypt , Syria , Lebanon and whatever will be in the end in Palestinian autonomy. And that politicians of our neighbors would realize that Israel is not temporary state but will be there for a long time. Without those two things all the economical growth, peace process and great relationship with lot of respected countries thousands kilometers away will not end the violence.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
tiny Israel that has problems protecting itself

Tiny israel has NO problems protecting itself trust me
Tell me exactly who represents a threat to Israel?

Countries with menacing rethorics?
Do you fear the attacks of ahmadinejad in the form of denying the holocaust?
Do you fear the attacks of imprisoned gazans sending rockets with a 1% level of accuracy to a state that is stockpiling nukes and has secret labs making atom bombs?
Do you fear arab countries who's military budget represent less than 6% of Israel's military budget?

What exactly is a threat to Israel?
The wrath of american taxpayers and their menacing frowns to israel from overseas angry that their money keeps being sent to Israel while their past, current and most likely future presidents are under the thumb of the israeli lobby?

I may agree with some of your points in your post, but to say that Israel is in danger is delusional my friend.

This was the UK during operation Cast Lead:







This is how a country's foreign policy can be controlled through intimidation and violence. Our government is paralysed with fear. Why we did not vote with the USA in the UN vote to call for a ceasefire in Gaza, and why we did not vote with the USA to reject the Goldstone report at the UNHRC and UNGA.

Yep, really democratic!

[edit on 13-11-2009 by mattpryor]

reply to post by quackers


Funny thing is, the "Muslim invasion" you mention is being allowed to happen by our own politicians, in a deliberate act of social engineering, to break down the national identity. Make us all such a good little multicultural society to better accept the global governance they have planned for us all. Not so long ago such ideas would have carried a charge of treason!
So, the "cunning plan" part cannot be attributed to the Muslim nations, but to our own politicians who still have not got the nuts to put an end to rampant and, as has been shown before, unchecked immigration!

Israel, through it's own brutal actions, is now seen as something of a pariah state by many countries, not just Muslim ones, and is doing all it can to play the victim card once again.

Originally posted by mattpryor
and why we did not vote with the USA to reject the Goldstone report at the UNHRC and UNGA.

Yep, really democratic!

Well I cannot see the videos you post for the moment
But the reason why USA doesn't want an investigation on the Gaza war are for many reasons

1) An investigation would prove that the U.S. sent white phosphorus to Israel

2) White house wants to show some support to Israel, especially for something so huge like a UN investigation

3) The Israeli Lobby

I'm fairly sure US is under Israel's thumb while UK is not.
This is my perspective.

And what is wrong with an investigation anyhow?
If israel didn't do anythign wrong, then why hide it?
Why oppose the search for truth?

And your country is not paralyzed with fear, if anything it should be the citizens who should be in fear with CCTVs all over the place.

reply to post by ModernAcademia



in response to your 'witnessing'

~ Israel's dark view of the world ~


That's exactly the overarching 'theme' which is used to unify this 'Tribe' of diverse peoples....i.e. An Israeli' world views are a product of being outcast, despised, browbeaten, by the rest of the worlds peoples.

reply to post by St Udio


The sympathy card is getting a bit boring now.



[edit on 13-11-2009 by quackers]

Originally posted by St Udio
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

in response to your 'witnessing'

~ Israel's dark view of the world ~


That's exactly the overarching 'theme' which is used to unify this 'Tribe' of diverse peoples....i.e. An Israeli' world views are a product of being outcast, despised, browbeaten, by the rest of the worlds peoples.

Mmmmm... now why is that? If they have, throughout the centuries, acted in the same aloof, brutal and criminal way that many still do today, then it might perhaps explain their perceived persecution?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


US House of Representatives voted 344-36 to reject Goldstone report last week.

Don't tell me they're all Jews!

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

US House of Representatives voted 344-36 to reject Goldstone report last week.

Don't tell me they're all Jews!

No, but many are on the payroll, and thus beholden to, the Jewish lobby via AIPAC.

Originally posted by St Udio
in response to your 'witnessing'

~ Israel's dark view of the world ~

That's exactly the overarching 'theme' which is used to unify this 'Tribe' of diverse peoples....i.e. An Israeli' world views are a product of being outcast, despised, browbeaten, by the rest of the worlds peoples.

Out of curiosity how long do you plan on using the victim card?

People are being thrown out of their foreclosed homes in America, tent cities are growing while you keep getting the money from they sweat and tears, do you really think you can use that card right now?

You wars are entirely financed by the U.S., probably your national healthcare too, you get yearly money for signing the oslo accord, what more do you want? Israel is by far the best treated state on the face of the planet BAR NONE!

reply to post by ModernAcademia

I may agree with some of your points in your post, but to say that Israel is in danger is delusional my friend.

I disagree with this, Israel is in mortal danger but as is most often the case true danger lurks where you least expect it.

I am not religious but much of the world is. As a humanist and an agnostic I am highly rational, pragmatic and fair
and try not to be entrapped by circular and self defeating forms of logic.

Religion though tends to be fraught with circular and self defeating forms of logic and Jews, Christians and Muslims
all have religious aspirations and agendas when it comes to the Biblical land of Israel.

Christians while not the most numerous sect are the most dominant sect even though it could be argued their politics seem to be heavily influenced by Zionist politics.

It could be argued Israel is a Zionist nation politically and not a Hebrew nation politically. Zionism is a true cult that
one not need be Hebrew, Christian or even religious at all to be a part of.

Zionism is as much about Christian aspirations as it is Hebrew aspirations in fact Theodore Herzl was extremely anti-Semitic and saw Christian Civilization as the epitome of Civilization.

Yet Christian Civilization prophesizes a dark future for Israel in the form of an apocalyptic war fought over it by the forces of good and evil. Of course good and evil are more figurative than relative as far as individual perspective but the reality is that thousands of years ago Rome through its Holy Bible New Testament foretold this apocalyptic war
fought in the land of Israel and it being key in the formation of a one world government.

There is no denying that the Internationalists like the Council for Foreign Relations, Bilderbergers, Triadialists and others long for a one world government and edge the nations of the world closer and closer to it every passing year through amalgamations of nations like the European Union, international treaties like those on Climate Control and other projects largely carried out through the United Nations.

It would be hard to disclaim that the above named organizations aren’t Zionist in nature or Zionist leaning.

Many Evangelical Christians actually hope for a one world government being established in Israel the building of a Third Temple, an Anti-Christ like Despot ruling over the world as a prophesized precursor to the reemergence of their savior Jesus Christ.

They would not actually rail against these developments but welcome these developments and all these organizations need to do to enlist them as passive and non-passive allies is to make sure that world events loosely
follow these ancient prophecies laid out by Rome.

As an agnostic and a humanist I do not believe in the religious and spiritual nature of these prophecies but do strongly believe that political forces will take advantage of these prophecies and how many people believe in them
to mimic these events to set up a one world government.

With Internationalist Zionists of all religious persuasions orchestrating events to create the inviting pretexts for Christians, Jews and Muslims to fight over these ancient cross roads known as Israel the modern day state of Israel
surely will perish under the weight of those events.

Events that seem to be rapidly descending upon us all with the ongoing and ever shifting War on Terrorism that basically pits the Islamic East against the Judean/Christian West with Israel as the dead center of the universe that battle surrounds, while at the very same time vilifying more and more any person whose politics don’t subscribe to national themes carefully orchestrated by the Internationalist elite setting the political mood of the increasingly
authoritarian state that would be required to keep a one world government of many disparate peoples in line to a central authority.

I believe ultimately Israel is toast as a result of this and that the Zionists in Israel are onboard with these plans and run the nation of Israel in such a way as the last thing it would ever have or give is peace.

The enemy always lies where you least expect it, in one’s own inability to be honest with and critically question themselves…but most of all in Rome!

Israel will fall and there will be a one world government at this rate should the people of the war keep hungering for war and the War on Terrorism.

Rome shall be victorious!

Hail Caesar!

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Israel's dark view of the world

I won't make this a speech... but I would like to say that, in the case of the Israelis v. Palestinians, we are talking about a feud that has been going on - off and on - for many thousands of years.

To understand the current crisis, we must so too understand the history of both peoples. Once there, to take sides is to become drawn in as a pawn to a conflict that predates the formation of most present day European nations and certainly, the United States.

In summery, there is no good guy, there is no bad guy... there is just these two people who draw from the same blood, who have taken it to shed it as much as possible.

I won't be a pawn to either.

The Israeli prime minister responded that if the country had 5% growth, it did not need peace

That is a key statement from the prime minister.
It shows that he has no interest in peace,and actually would prefer war with his neighbours.

What a nasty person to try to wriggle out of a peace plan in this way...5% growth is more important to this jerk than seeing his people getting rocketed,or more important than the lives of thousands of Palestinians who are starving,dying daily.

Is it any wonder other countries are sometimes critical of Israels policies/crimes when a destruction loving warmonger like Bibi is at the helm,behaving in this way?

If Israel goes along with Netenyauhus war loving mentality,they can expect the majority of the world to be pissed of at them.

Boycott Israel until they are serious about peace I say.
They do far more harm than good,across the board.