You CAN save Gary McKinnon - British Home Secretary is told

My son has Aspergers and it affects him radically. he has other issues as well but the Aspergers means that his mind works very diferently than ours and he meant no harm to anyone. This should be dropped and the guy left alone; as long as he promises to avoid any more hacking, this issue should close.

you posters that have no heart and soul and are law and order freaks...you should not cast a stone unless you are perfect, and I have not met anyone who is in my life. The Abrits should accept that they do not have to be lap dogs for the intelligence devils in DC.

Gary deserves a break, and the USA isn't going to accomplish zip by harrassing him any longer.

reply to post by redoubt


I too have had to have cards canceled due to fraud and theft, and it sucks!

But, this is not what Gary McKinnon is being charged with. Also, the crime was commited in the UK, which is where he should stand trial. The extradition treaty is a farce and one sided, allowing for extradition of British citizens to the US with no guarantee of reciprocal consideration on the part of US citizens wanted in the UK, which should effectively make the document worthless!

If you read my first two post, I totally agree. The US and NASA got embarrassed and now they are seeking retribution. There are many more serious crimes that go on here in the US that go unnoticed or unpunished!

Originally posted by Britguy
But, this is not what Gary McKinnon is being charged with.

This is true, but would you agree that a crime is a crime ?

Originally posted by Britguy
Also, the crime was commited in the UK, which is where he should stand trial.

That's a touchy subject and obviously part of the issue here. In essence he did violate US systems which could invite extradition as we are seeing. Regardless of how lax the security was or wasn't that is not the issue here at all. You simply don't play around in certain peoples backyards.

brill

Originally posted by brill
Laws are laws. If we just casually dismiss them to make us feel all warm and tingly inside, where do we go from there. Where does it end?

brill

Tell that to the NSA who routinely SPIES. EAVESDROPS, and generally does what McKinnon did (for reasonably innocent reasons) every minute of every hour of every day to every citizen of this planet.

I think it's really rich of the poor ole US of A to be whining about being electronically invaded when they are the biggest and most invasive abusers of people's and countries' privacy.

I normally steer clear of these sort of threads... but the holier than thou crap that surfaces from some of the poster's on ATS makes me both despair and get annoyed sometimes. I should know better... but for goodness sake!!!

However misguided Mackinnon was his offence was minor compared to what the US government and it's agencies get up to every day

reply to post by Dagar

Tell that to the NSA who routinely SPIES. EAVESDROPS, and generally does what McKinnon did (for reasonably innocent reasons) every minute of every hour of every day to every citizen of this planet.

Still and all, two wrongs do not make a right.

It's an old lesson, one I taught my children before they were out of grammar school...

As I said earlier, I have no personal issues with Mr. McKinnon but to date, I have not heard a single argument yet that legitimizes his actions.

Personal responsibility is at the crux of this debate. Maybe the CIA and NSA are everything evil you care to call them. I would not doubt it for a second. But that still doesn't excuse McKinnon.

Laws are laws indeed. This isnt about whether or not he should be tried its about WHERE he should be tried. He commited the crime on BRITISH SOIL so therefore he has to be tried in British Courts.
And now by the looks of it he can be tried in this country and that is as it should be...


[edit on 13-11-2009 by loner007]

[edit on 13-11-2009 by loner007]

Originally posted by Dagar
Tell that to the NSA who routinely SPIES. EAVESDROPS, and generally does what McKinnon did (for reasonably innocent reasons) every minute of every hour of every day to every citizen of this planet.

I think it's really rich of the poor ole US of A to be whining about being electronically invaded when they are the biggest and most invasive abusers of people's and countries' privacy.

Completely dodging the issue, well done. I don't dispute the fact that portions of the US intelligence community are evil. Hell i think the CIA is the most heinous terrorist organization on the planet. Most nations are guilty to some extent of this type of activity. So what, it happens and it will likely never abate. Some things need to be secured from the public to maintain national security interests. You can't have people attacking critical systems, making threats and possibly even deleting files with no recourse.

McKinnon was persistant and attacked several different systems(97 of them) this wasn't a one time shot. That doesn't just happen by chance.

brill


[edit on 14-11-2009 by brill]

Originally posted by loner007
Laws are laws indeed. This isnt about whether or not he should be tried its about WHERE he should be tried. He commited the crime on BRITISH SOIL so therefore he has to be tried in British Courts.
And now by the looks of it he can be tried in this country and that is as it should be...

No I think its partly if he should be tried because there appears to be public sentiment backing him on account of a medical condition. I read that a pink floyd member has dedicated a song to him. I couldn't help but draw immediate parallels to the Polanski rape issue. Yah let's sing him to safety.

The other part is definitely where. Cases like this have been around for a while and many people have been prosecuted with the same scenario. Regardless, if he is tried on british soil I would think given the specifics it probably won't matter much. Issues involving matters of national security would be dealt with both swiftly and harshly.

brill

[edit on 14-11-2009 by brill]

I've always felt that he should be tried in the UK, and as I understand it if he broke the law then he also broke the UKs computer misuse acts, which is punishable with up to 5 years in prison.

In my opinion the US administration could have supported and lent it'd full weight behind a trial in the UK and this matter would have been closed some time ago, and justice served.. It would also demonstrate that the US administration respects it's allies legal systems while it also allows that UK to demonstrate that it fully supports US security.

To have not take that course of action, it appears to my eye that the US administration is acting a bully in this particular case, and worse how craven the UK government is acting. If Gary broke any laws, he broke both UK and US laws, so it seems strange to be arguing over which legal system takes precedent, and which legal system is sidelined.

Since this has now gone on for so long I am of the opinion that enough is enough, and let the matter drop, as it appear no one is actually interested in obtaining justice, just political points scoring.

Edit: some spelling and bits :-)



[edit on 15/11/09 by thoughtsfull]

Originally posted by VitalOverdose
The guy is a complete idiot

Since when could idiots hack into top-security Government files?

Originally posted by brill
Completely dodging the issue, well done.

Not really in my opinion.

(02-26) 19:20 PST -- The Obama administration has asked a federal judge in San Francisco to uphold a law aimed at dismissing suits against telecommunications companies that cooperated with President George W. Bush's wiretapping program.
Link

So why is it that our government is willing to protect those with money who have violated privacy laws and not that of an individual...whose motivation was decidely less than that which has been established by those being granted immunity?

The law seems to favor those with money and corporate influence...

Originally posted by MemoryShock
The law seems to favor those with money and corporate influence...

If that is news or a startling revelation to you or anyone else, time to wake up and smell the coffee. This happens in both private and public sectors, en masse, I mean c'mon. Regardless, McKinnon was a threat, I don't buy the boo-hoo tactics, he should serve time be it either through the US or UK judicial system.

brill

Originally posted by brill
If that is news or a startling revelation to you or anyone else, time to wake up and smell the coffee.

You don't know me very well...do you...

And suffice to say , I disagree that McKinnon needs to serve time. What is his threat to society? Where is the danger here?

The danger is the exposure of some security flaws...and the publication of the issue by people who are not McKinnon exposed the security flaws more than McKinnon did.

reply to post by Sozen94

Anyone using the same application to access windows machines could have done what he did. It does not take a genius. He was doing it from his home address on a landline using a 56k modem and didnt even attempt to cover his tracks. The guy isnt a hacker.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
And suffice to say , I disagree that McKinnon needs to serve time. What is his threat to society? Where is the danger here?

So let's say hypothetically that McKinnon was bored one night and decided to target you or your personal information, credit history, pension, etc. You'd be fine with that then ? There is very little difference here. Just because his crimes target the establishment, doesn't give him the right to wreak havoc and get away with it. Do we just let down our guard and twist our finger in cheek because his antics reached another level. He broke the law, its a simple concept.

The danger is the exposure of some security flaws...and the publication of the issue by people who are not McKinnon exposed the security flaws more than McKinnon did.

No the danger is that he continues on a rampage until he is stopped. The problem is he could do a lot more damage to potentially many other systems (not just military).

brill

Originally posted by brill
So let's say hypothetically that McKinnon was bored one night and decided to target you or your personal information, credit history, pension, etc. You'd be fine with that then ?

I am so off the board it isn't even funny. My greatest electronic signature is in fact ATS...

No the danger is that he continues on a rampage until he is stopped. The problem is he could do a lot more damage to potentially many other systems (not just military).

You're implying malicious intent. He isn't stealing other people's personal information. He was seeing if he could find data on UFO's. And sure there is probably sensitive data that he came across. Would do the public some good to know what is going on there.

The difference is personal intent. Was he trying to infringe upon a specific humans personal livlihood? No. In fact, his motives could be described as altruistic...he wanted to support disclosure. I for one believe that his was mislead regarding the UFO phenomena. But if he found something that effectivily refuted as such...wouldn't that be valuable information for the public to have?

I have seen nothing in your argument to dissuade me from my opinion...

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by Venetian

 

I think he should be extradited so he can be brought to the USA and receive punishment for his crimes. Somehow I think all of his medical problems would magically disappear if he were to be set free from his consequences. He is faking!

Why he already served his sentence in his own country, and he is quite frankly: A HERO!

Originally posted by MemoryShock
I am so off the board it isn't even funny. My greatest electronic signature is in fact ATS...

I'm not really sure what the hell that means....are you implying your a luddite, because that would explain your feedback ? Still you conveniently dodged the question even though hypothetical.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
You're implying malicious intent. He isn't stealing other people's personal information. He was seeing if he could find data on UFO's. And sure there is probably sensitive data that he came across. Would do the public some good to know what is going on there.

Not implying anything, he deleted files and to most with an understanding on PC's or sensitive/personal data, that is malicious. You can paint him as Robin Hood all you want, he's a two bit crook that deserves 10 years in the electric chair. Its difficult to continue on if by your own admission you are "so off the board".

brill

[edit on 15-11-2009 by brill]