why do "palestinians" say they have a right to israel's land

I agree completely!!!!

It's just like those so called "Native Americans" thinking they have some sort of right to our American land.

Our Forefathers gave it to us in a sacred document, it's ours.





-I am so terribly offended by the bigotry in this thread, it's sickening.

Originally posted by mattpryor
the Jews later stole, which isn't the case.

Well, they did.

Secondly, the prophecy states that the Jews will return to their land once God has given the sign - which he hasn't.

Judea was the name of the region under the Roman occupation - not Israel. In fact, historians are still unsure whether the Kingdom of Israel did indeed exist (only the Bible mentions it) - which isn't a very good historical document.

Originally posted by Rhetoric
-I am so terribly offended by the bigotry in this thread, it's sickening.

Just thought I'd echo this sentiment.

I was hoping for a decent debate, but unfortunately, the first post was clearly by a bigot with an intended purpose.

Nothing to see here.
Just another thread clearly displaying how the tortured becomes the torturer.

Very sad indeed.

reply to post by infinite


Well, no, they didn't.

They migrated there and turned a small patch of desert into a modern, civilized nation, which was inclusive of all peoples including those that already lived there (Jewish and Muslim) - as was stipulated in the Balfour Declaration. Land was generally bought, not stolen, and generally from Arab landlords who lived in more wealthy countries like Jordan, Egypt and Iraq.

Increased prosperity and industry led to large scale immigration (Jewish and Muslim) from surrounding countries with the offer of education and well paid employment. Israel was a far nicer place to live and work that Jordan, Egypt or Syria or any other Arab country.

Literacy rates went from 3% in ~1900 to 95% today among the Arab population. Sanitation, amenities, medical care, were all massively improved for everyone.

European immigration was and is a good thing for Jewish and Muslim Palestinians. It could also be a good thing for surrounding countries, with technology sharing etc, if they would let go of their prejudices.

The funny thing is, you accuse Israelis of doing all the things we Europeans have done in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and Africa. But the tragic irony is that they're the only people that haven't done those things, by and large. I think there's a psychological phenomenon at work here, guilt transference perhaps?

reply to post by mattpryor


There is no guilt transference in this thread... just opposing views. The Balfour Declaration was just a declaration that at the moment does not live up to the promise of respecting the rights of others that inhabit the region. Been to Gaza recently?

The West grows increasingly weary of the conflict and I personally think that Netanyahu will bring even greater despair to the region, in my opinion he and Sharon are nothing but war lords.

Using past atrocities in history to justify today's atrocities is why we have what we have in the Middle East.

Actually they don't have a claim to Israel. In Surah 5:20-5:21, thereabouts, Muhammed himself proclaimed that that "land of Israel" is for Musa (Moses) and HIS people.....so, any claim by the Islamic Nations is purely unrelated to religion and all about politics.

Kinda peculiar that with all their zeal, and the way FOLLOW the Qur'an, they would recognize this statement and leave Israel to the Jews...but naaaaah they'll just take what they want from their book and ignore the rest...not unlike most other peoples of faith.

reply to post by Witness2008


Gaza isn't part of Israel and isn't governed by the Israelis. They wanted autonomy, remember? Now we're complaining that they don't have equality with Israelis?

I'd like to know what you base your opinion of Netenyahu on. He's been in power what, 8 months, during which time he's called for peaceful negotiations with the Palestinians on about 5 or 6 occasions (each time he's been rebuked). The current Israeli government has removed more illegal settlements than any other before it. Doesn't seem like a warlord to me, in fact he seems to consistently disappoint those who expected the worst from him.

Originally posted by mattpryor
I think there's a psychological phenomenon at work here, guilt transference perhaps?

Oh grow up.
This has nothing to do with European colonialism, so untwist your knickers before your eyes water...

I've read your other warped posts before on ATS (you justified discrimination/violence against Christians in Israel in a previous post). You seem to have a sugar-coated view of Israel - completely crass and denial of certain human rights violations. The Palestinians are not perfect neither - Gaza would have better standards without the extreme ideology of Hamas. Terrorism did not help their cause either, probably halted a two state solution in the 1980s

The main problem is the evangelic Christians in America and Islamic fundamentalists in Iran, who are providing financing to the extreme faction in both sides. These individuals need to disappear from the Earth or develop a cheerful outlook on life, without financing extremism.

Lesson learned from the crusades: Leave the Middle East to itself. If both sides want to fight over fictional characters and pseudo-history - do it without dragging the rest of the world into the blood bath.

P.S You're on ignore now

[edit on 10-11-2009 by infinite]

reply to post by jeddun


Yes, because the Qu'ran believes Christians and Jews should stop arguing over Jesus (accept Islam) and then declare Israel a state - did you read up to that part?

Reading, then understanding is not a hard process. A basic human, with limited intelligence can achieve.

Eliminate religion and the Middle East is peaceful, or force God to tell us who is right.

reply to post by Witness2008


He/she is a troll that only posts on threads to do with Israel.
Take my advice, click ignore on him and ATS will be restored to peace.

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by Witness2008

 

He/she is a troll that only posts on threads to do with Israel.
Take my advice, click ignore on him and ATS will be restored to peace.

Harsh! I didn't realise there were rules on which topics I can and can't contribute to?

I love watching the personal attacks flow whenever I post an opinion people don't agree with. Very revealing...

As far as I know, that territory (Palestine and Israel) was known as Canaan.

After the Israelites left Egypt, they established in those territories and changed the name to Israel forming 12 tribes, but at that time, the Philistines was already there where the Gaza strip is today and Philistine was not part of the Israel's tribes.

Later on all these territories name was changed to Palestine including Philistine and Israel.

After WWII, many survival Jews came back to these territories again.

They declare their Independence, and the state of Israel was created as we know it (changing the Palestine name to Israel again in those areas where the 12 tribes where established in the past)...but here's the problem I think.

Israel has always thought that the Palestine territories (Philistine in the past) belongs to the Dan's tribe (one of the 12 tribes of Israel) but remember.... at that time, the Philistines was already there so the Dan tribe had to be established at the North and not at the Gaza strip, so Israel has (and always will) interest for these lands.

And Palestinians as descendants of the Philistines, will always fight for their lands as they've always do.

IMHO, Israel should be where it is, and give up the idea to take the Gaza Strip, I think is better to make peace and maybe...some day, make a treatment so the Israelites and Palestine could live and travel freely thought these territories and believe what they want to without hurting each other.

they has a history in common (Rome, British, etc) and the have been together for so long and they have been through many things together...if they unite and respect their boundaries, I bet they'd be a superpower culturally, religiously and economically...and that's the major fear of all these Islamic countries leaders.... remember....divide and conquer.

Peace




Peace

reply to post by mattpryor


Who said anything about Gaza being a part of Israel? However Israel controls Gazas air space, ports and decides when humanitarian aid is allowed to the civilians they drop phosphorus on (operation Cast Lead).

Netenyahu is picking a fight with Iran and using the West as their attack dog attempting to escalate further instability.

This is all such garbage. Judaism was extant in Palestine well before islam. Nobody gave anybody "Palestinian" land. It was bought and paid for from arab landowners. Israel took no land by force until 1948 when it was attacked. It has kicked butt everytime and that really pisses the muslim world off. If allah is on your side why does a tiny country with a miniscule military kick arab ass everytime it fights them? The primary goal of "Palestinian" political groups is the destruction of Israel then the establishment of another poor muslim state.

]reply to post by siahchi

 

We are talking about people who ENCOURAGE their children to sacrifice themselves for the cause here!?! PROVEN FACT! You have any idea what you are even talking about, or are you just spreading propaganda on their behalf?

Hmm, so how exactly is this any different than the US and the UK sending their young off to Iraq and Afghanistan "to sacrifice themselves for the cause". What? You think they all go over there to hand out flowers and dance with children? No, they go there to fight the good fight, and die if need be.

Just because the Palestinians use different weapons does not mean they are not at war. How is a suicide bomber blowing themselves up on a bus any different than Israel dropping bombs on a bustling market full of men women and children?

As usual, your just another zionist appologist.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by quackers]

reply to post by Witness2008


With respect, I disagree and I think you have the situation in reverse. Iran has been picking a fight with the West, Israel being the closest enemy, since the Islamic Revolution 30 years ago. Until 2003 we had Saddam as a balance to Iranian aspirations of regional dominance. Thanks to Mr's Blair and Bush that is no longer the case.

Israel, being the country with its metaphorical ears closest to the ground, is sounding the alarm that things are about to escalate. British, French and US intelligence concurs.

The Saudis, Jordanians and Egyptians are also extremely concerned. Jordan and Egypt have just banned Iranian TV from their networks for broadcasting propaganda, did you know that?

A nuclear armed Iran will not be tolerated by Israel, and should not be tolerated by any Western country. Their government is not to be trusted with such massively destructive armaments. Ideally they'd like the support of other countries on Iran's sh*t list, but in all likelihood they'll end up having to go it alone. As always.

reply to post by mattpryor


I have no tolerance for a nuclear Israel, Iran or any other nation. I don't think Israel should be the dictate for what happens in the Middle East as I see Israel as the cause of perpetual suffering over there.

The Idea of a nuclear armed country telling another they can not have the same footing is a bit arrogant...don't you think?

If Israel wants to be the almighty barometer I say let them....but with out the help of Europe or the U.S...I'd say we have helped enough.

reply to post by Witness2008


One thing I agree about - nuclear weapons were an awful invention. I wish they had never been dreamed up. But they were, and now we're stuck with them (for good or bad).

reply to post by mrmonsoon


So? Menachem Begin was a terrorist, too. And some would honour Sharon with that label as well

reply to post by resonance


God has neither religions nor politics, religion is the sister of politics, one just need to read history to figure out that religion is a hoax. Faith is universal. That is the problem. There is a genocide going on in Palestine right now while our Bilderberger diplomats were all celebrating the fall of the wall in Berlin....there are still 11 more walls like this in the world today, and God has nothing to do with this !