Evil theory

Originally posted by John Matrix
No, I do not agree with you.
God is not a murderer....Satan has been a murderer from the beginning.

No, I do not agree with you.

Review the following:

www.daltonator.net...

I mean actually read and review it.

Now tell me God doesn't murder and Satan does.

hypocrite.

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by John Matrix
No, I do not agree with you.
God is not a murderer....Satan has been a murderer from the beginning.

No, I do not agree with you.

Review the following:

www.daltonator.net...

I mean actually read and review it.

Now tell me God doesn't murder and Satan does.

hypocrite.

Name calling is not an argument....and it violates the T&C.

Is my stand a good reason for you to add me to your respected foe list.
How captious....

I've heard all the arguments from people who blame God for all kinds of evil, including murder. People like you believe those lies because it gives you an excuse to reject God and call people who believe in him hypocrites. Well look in the mirror my bitter friend.

First....let's use a modern translation. I know a lot of you atheists think God speaks in 1611 King James but I have a real shock for you....he didn't then and he doesn't now.

Translations are not infallible. They are translations. Some are better some worse. However, the integrity of the gospel message has stood throughout the vast majority of translations....but atheists seem to love getting lost in the details.

So let me help guid you back on the right trail here:

Is God's killing justified? To answer the question whether God breaks His own commandments, we need to determine if God committed murder (i.e., killed people without cause). The Bible is quite clear that God has killed people directly (the most prominent example being the flood) and indirectly (ordered peoples to be killed). If God ordered or participated in the killing of innocent people, then He would be guilty of murder. Let's look at two of the most prominent examples.

The flood According to the Bible, God killed every human except Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives in the flood. Were any of these people killed unjustly? The Bible says specifically that all people (except Noah and his family) had become corrupted.12 Not only had all people become corrupted, but they were continually plotting evil!13 Is it possible that an entire culture can become corrupted? You bet! Recent history proves the point rather well. When the Nazis took over Germany before WWII, opposition was crushed and removed. When they began their purging of the undesirables (e.g., the Jews), virtually the entire society went along with the plan. Further examples are given on another page. So, the Bible indicates that no innocent people were killed in the flood.

God orders killing What about when God ordered Joshua and his people to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan?14 What crime could be so great that entire populations of cities were designated for destruction? God told Moses that the nations that the Hebrew were replacing were wicked.15 How "wicked" were these people? The text tells us that they were burning their own sons and daughters in sacrifices to their gods.16 So we see that these people were not really innocent. For these reasons (and others17), God ordered the destruction of the peoples whom the Israelites dispossessed.

What about the children and other "innocents"Surely God could have spared the children! People tend to assume that children are innocent, even if their parents are doing bad things. The assumption is unfounded. For example, Palestinian Muslim children are officially taught in grammar school to hate their Jewish neighbors.18 They are so well indoctrinated that some of them give up their lives in suicide bombings as children.19 Corruption literally does breed corruption, which is why God did not want the Hebrews tainted by the other corrupt cultures of the Middle East.

Surely there must have been other innocent adults in those cities who were destroyed with the wicked! There actually is an example of a time when God was asked if He would destroy the innocent along with the wicked. Prior to destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked God if He would destroy the righteous along with the wicked.20 God replied that He would spare the entire city for 50 righteous people.21 Abraham kept reducing the possible number of righteous people, asking God if He would destroy the entire city along with those number of righteous people.22 God's reply in each case was that He would not destroy the righteous along with the wicked. The lowest number Abraham asked about was ten righteous people, although the answer would likely be the same with as few as one righteous individual. How do we know this? God sent two angels to warn the four righteous people in Sodom to flee before He destroyed the city.23 It is quite convenient that such details are usually left out of atheistic sites complaining about the "evil" perpetrated by God. In fact, God saved certain people from being killed in cities such as Jericho.24

Conclusion The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is really not as general as the King James version would indicate. The commandment actually refers to premeditated, unjustified killing - murder. Although God ordered the extermination of entire cities, He did so in righteous judgment on a people whose corruption had led to extreme wickedness, including child sacrifice. Did God destroy the righteous along with the wicked? In an exchange with Abraham, God indicated that He would spare the wicked to save the righteous. He demonstrated this principle by saving righteous people from Sodom and Jericho prior to their destruction. The charge that God indiscriminately murdered people does not hold to to critical evaluation of the biblical texts.

Source

Originally posted by Tryptych
Destruction brings emptiness, in physical form as well as material, creativity brings fulfillment. Material universe is the manifestation of the mind.

If you understand these facts and you still choose the first one.. well, that could be considered evil. And will be punishable by karma.

Without destruction there could be no creation. Both are necessary in this reality, it is the Tao of the universe if you will.

Without the destruction of certain stars or planets our planet and solar system could not have been created and life here could have never evolved. Likewise one day our planet and solar system will give way to create a new solar system with new planets which will allow for the evolution of new life.

Karma should not be seen a punishment more so than a way to balance things out. You were using human concepts to try and explain a non-human universal concept. Human concepts cannot explain universal concepts.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Your are sorry you could not offer better?

Yes. "Better" being a concept of Expectation then yes I am sorry I could not provide what you sought.

Originally posted by John Matrix
There are laws that God put in place from the beginning, and which he warned us about? Call it whatever you want....but Violate God's spiritual laws and you are responsible for bringing punishment on yourself.

Evil does exist, and it does matter what we think and believe about it.
Good also exists, and the more we understand what is good, the better we understand what is evil.

If you don't see the difference, then you have not even taken your first baby steps toward learning the wisdom of the Divine.

This is why we perceive differently John. I see outside Belief, while you do not. And that is perfectly fine too.

Perhaps judgements like "Nonsense", etc, are not for you to make a call on if your Beliefs are absolute and True? That would be your god's place to make such derisive remarks would it not?

We will not find common ground in this discussion, and I do not wish to be forceful in my approach so I bid you well.

Originally posted by Tayesin

Perhaps judgements like "Nonsense", etc, are not for you to make a call on if your Beliefs are absolute and True? That would be your god's place to make such derisive remarks would it not?

We will not find common ground in this discussion, and I do not wish to be forceful in my approach so I bid you well.

I already told you that judgements that are merely the process of evaluation is not the kind of judgements that bring condemnation.

Your intellectual mumbo-jumbo is a load of gobbly-goop.

Why do you talk like that? Why can't you put your thoughts in simple to follow language? Who are you trying to impress?.....or mislead?

I can judge your comments as nonsense all day long....if you don't like it...tough.....start putting your knowledge into plain language that others can understand, or don't bother....because you could mislead people.

God is not a God of confusion....He is the God of Peace.

We know who the God of confusion is.....so why serve Satan?

Originally posted by Tayesin
We will not find common ground in this discussion, and I do not wish to be forceful in my approach so I bid you well.

At least you made this statement clear.
I'm pleased you don't wish to be forceful in your approach.

However, I wish you would be. I would like the opportunity to teach you what the Divine has revealed to me.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 1: 3 to 14 NIV version.

His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

2 Peter 1:3-4 (New International Version)

Note: It is by participating in the DIVINE NATURE that we escape the corruption caused by EVIL desires.

The DIVINE NATURE can be summed up in humility, meekness, patience, and Love.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

Now what becomes of all your ways, methods, and pilgrimages?

The wisdom of the ages is closer than your own heart, and easily accessible to anyone that is willing to repent and accepts the gift of eternal life.

Thank you John for the effort you went to for me, I do appreciate it. I can see what you believe, and I am not saying it is wrong, only that I see differently.

Honestly, I thought I was speaking simply. My old mentor talked about how some things are too simple when people are used to, and so expect, some complexity.

My point John is this; normally we see and think "outward" which causes us to form theories about everything. Some of these theories are held onto for so long they become serious Beliefs. But, if we observed from the perspective of outward looking in, then we will see things quite differently.

We could say doing so is looking from the bigger picture in, as opposed to the limited picture looking from the inside out. It's where you stand to perceive that makes all the difference.

What we call evil can then be seen from different ends of the spectrum, at one end it appears to us as a real thing while at the other end it isn't.

reply to post by Tayesin


Christianity is all about looking inward, examining one's own heart with the mind of Christ and the Spirit of God, which the Christian receives upon repentance and rebirth.

When one's path is set straight, one's spiritual condition, knowledge, and wisdom manifests outwardly, and is visible by the way one treats others.

[edit on 21/10/09 by John Matrix]

reply to post by blujay


Well, this is where I shall agree to disagree.

Originally posted by blujay
Of course it is for a purpose. Ascension. The negatives want to ascend and the positives want to ascend. It fits perfectly into your ‘spiritual’ idea.


[edit on 19-10-2009 by blujay]

I am going to disagree with you on this.
Evil does not want to ascend.
They are playing their part but they choose to be outside of God Source. IMO
They are going into a black hole spiral fall and will return to Source eventually as spacedust. IMO

Originally posted by John Matrix
Christianity is all about looking inward, examining one's own heart with the mind of Christ and the Spirit of God, which the Christian receives upon repentance and rebirth.

Still not getting my meaning through. I referred to perceiving from bigger picture awareness into our small level of awareness, from the Macro to the Micro, from Soul awareness into Human Awareness. As opposed to humans thinking about what exists and creating theories that become an edifice for Belief over time.

It is well you understand and apply the knowledge to look within as so much is to be found there for us. In my words: to shine light into our darkness. Yet for many, many others it is not the case, even for christians. Many are happy enough to hold the Belief, basically follow the laws, and not give it another thought in their busy lives.

I think many would also be confused by "the mind of Christ" concept, as few understand what it could be or mean, no matter what their pastor, preacher or father have said. New-agers call it the Christ Consciousness, and again not many understand it. It is a different state of awareness to what we humans usually operate with.

Originally posted by John Matrix
When one's path is set straight, one's spiritual condition, knowledge, and wisdom manifests outwardly, and is visible by the way one treats others.

Well said John. In my words; to shine in the world. It's contagious to others who see and feel as it raises their day a little more. It is a freeing thing to shine, to be completely open, honest and unconditionally loving. That last bit is my main point.

Unconditional love is not to be witheld by us from anything we value-judge as evil. Doing so undermines growth, clarity and "God", thus closing us down to the bigger pictures.