Healthcare Debate--Why They DON'T Want You To Have A Public Option!

Ohh it seems we are in very interesting times. The senate and house have finally begun actually talking about issues that affect all Americans.

Primarily healthcare.

Now we have seen the propaganda and the harsh rhetoric from all sides come and go these past few months. We've even needed to create a new board to contain it all, but yet, the smartest of you have been dupped!

Public Option Health Care.

It is your best idea...ever.

However, the government, proposed the idea, out of attempting to do what is right, and from the looks of it has completely made a 180 degree turn for what it wants.

Obama was touting as far as last year that he wanted a Public Option, since it would keep insurance companies in check and provide coverage to all Americans.

Now I won't make this a debate about why or why not Public Option VS Private Option is better and vice versa, this about the obvious attempt to destroy any sort of long lasting "change" in the Health Care sector.

So what have they done so far?

Well they have argued and accused each side of propaganda and partisan tactics, they've come up with 5 bills that nobody will ever read, and have put in all these kinds of things like:

* You need to purchase insurance, or go to jail, or be fined.

That's only one example of how they will attempt to blindside you.

Since everybody is now AGAINST the public option, including Mr Obama himself since he's stopped talking about it all together, you now have Private Run Healthcare as the only option.

Now it doesn't matter what the coverage costs, if ALL americans are forced to purchase the insurance, they can drop it by 30% in price, these companies will make MORE money since 300 million people will be forced to buy from one company or another.

So you see ATS, this clever back and forth between Reps and Dems has only served the business interestests and lobysts once again, as they do not care about you, or what kind of value you are getting for your buck.

They only care that EVERY American will be REQUIRED to get healthcare, or else be in contempt of the law.

A public option will actually force the government to do something positive with tax payer money. It would force them to provide quality health care since the people are paying for it.

Now the systems aren't perfect, nothing is. I am Canadian, I enjoy what most call a "socialist" health care system, that works really well for me and my wallet, most of the time.

I urge you all to take a good look at what has transpired here in order to remove this veil the MSM and the government have over you. They are lying so they may do less work and reap more of the benefits.

Thoughts?

Edit To Add: I apologize if my ideas seem a little sporadic today, I quite smoking and this is day 3, I am a little on edge .

~Keeper

[edit on 10/17/2009 by tothetenthpower]

The Devil is always in the details.

I am 100% against a public option UNLESS it is the current Federal Employee Insurance Program OR all current Federal Employee Insurance Program participants transition to the new "public option".


Why? Think about it!

Great healthcare for them on the taxpayer's dime and the "rest of us" get stuck with "substandard" crap.

Real or Perceived - This is the way MOST of us see it.

To many maneuvers were discovered in the past versions of bills that show us that private companies will transition US the workers to public option because it is cheaper and the "hidden little fines" system that prove the intent.

Bottom line - If we have a public option, I expect it to be good or better than my current healthcare plans because I fully believe that it is step 1 to single payer for the serfs. I say serfs because our politicians and Federal Employees in no way want public option for themselves (THIS should tell you something!)

So, Yes on Public Option only if our Federal Employees and Politicians adopt it for themselves.

Other than that, Why not make the Federal Employees Insurance Plan available to businesses and the public at the same cost?

You know why don't you?

IT is freeking really good and will cost to much to let us commoners have it too though theirs is being paid for by OUR freeking taxes.

Yeah... that is why.

Have them put their money where their mouths are. Don't accept a "steaming turd" for yourself while the hypocrites leech better from our own taxes!

[edit on 17-10-2009 by infolurker]

reply to post by infolurker


I agree, this is what I am saying.

Having a public option would make the government offer better healthcare of at least the same health care that they are privileged to.

It's a matter of the people demanding it however.

It's funny that today we allow a group of people to go into a room and DECIDE what the people want, versus just asking us and formulating something based on that.

~Keeper

reply to post by infolurker

What all federal employees have now is the choice of several different insurance plans that can be tailored to the needs of each individual family. Some options require greater or lesser payroll deductions, but the employees can make those choices for themselves.

This range of options is exactly what the Obama administration wants to make available to everyone in the U.S.

Without a public option, though, the insurance companies can charge whatever they want for mandatory coverage with no competition from a government plan. That would be unacceptable to me.

I wouldn't support health insurance reform that did not include a public option.

Good post, OP.

A public option is unconstitutional unless we pass a new amendment to the constitution. Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.

I understand why people want a public option. People don't want to pay for their own things, they want unborn children of future generations to pay for it for them. What I don't understand why they don't want to follow the law to make it so.

Private enterprise creates; government destroys. That is the great economic lesson of our times and all times. Period.

reply to post by METACOMET


If there were a public option, or a single payer system, we would not have to deal with insurance companies at all.

Health care is not a luxury, it's a moral mandate.

When are you people going to understand that greed only leads to the destruction of cultures and societies.

You don't understand the gig. You can scream Patriotism all you want, when the masses decide they have had enough, then you will keep your mouth shut and hide.

You are the problem, and the solution is coming. The solution is not violent or totalitarian, the solution is attrition.

When you all die off, the young people will be much better off. Most young people would choose to PAY rather than PLAY, meaning they know how *SNIP* we are and if given the choice to, be like us, or pay for our stupidity, they will choose to pay.

It's better to leave them an expensive legacy of Justice, and dignity, than a cheap clusterf&ck based on hatred and intolerance.

You will see, they are better people than we are.

The old guard needs to go to the grave to make way for future Americans that are not a mob of racist scum.

Mod-Note: Profanity Removed.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Id agree with you a public option could be great but (theres all ways a but isn't there) let me ask you a question first. Has the government managed anything that the services improved and the cost became cheaper? Lets see social security lets just say its insolvent and leave it at that.Then we have Medicaid so rife with fraud that they continually have to deny more and more services and lets not forget funneling money from social security again adding to that problem.And since the government is about to move into health care insurance lets look at there other business the postal service need i say more?

reply to post by dragonridr


Perhaps not in America, but how much are your citizens to blame for those failings?

You elect the people in charge, they work for you, not the other way around.

In Canada the price of medical aid has gone up, but do you see me paying a bill? Nopes, my taxes do that for me. And for those who say they would raise taxes, they have actually lowered them in the past 5 years, as well as removed tax brackets so that I am taxed less on my income.

Strange how that can be done huh?

~Keeper

The large insurance companys know that they would have to lower rates if they got competition on a governmental scale...their billions of dollars profit a year would be effected a bit, therefore they get sheep in the right wing, heavily paid off of course, to start these "grassroots" movements.

The local yokels have no clue about whats going on here and have spent about a full 3 seconds researching where the origins of this movement is from...they simply hear things like: "the black muslim kenyan president who is related to Saddam Hussein is wanting to kill your grandmother and institute communism style "healthcare (cough..gas chambers..cough)" and will also steal your guns and take away your bulk size bag of cheetos.

They do a fantastic job in getting their message across to the wilderness parts of America and they scream really bloody loud to make themselves sound relevant. The insurance corporations drive around these bad actors from state to state so they can crash town halls and yell, pretending they are locals, etc.

The conspiracy here is how these massive corporations are playing these poor ignorant fools like a fiddle, using mouthpieces like beck, palin, and limbaugh to entrance these joe and jane plumbers to get angrier.

on the other hand....

Obama is a wimp. He (and the rest of the libs) know that this is the intellectual and clever thing to do...its high time he learned from bush and simply do it verses compromise. He will never get actual bipartisan support because the other side is sold out completely to the lobbiests barking in their ear.

reply to post by METACOMET


I guess you fail to understand that making the tax payer support private entities by force is also unconstitutional.

This means we the tax payer will be the servants of the ones we will be forced to pay or else, in this instance a private entity, we as well start paying taxes to private insurance companies right now, because obviously that is what we will be forced to do by mandate and will be deducted from our paychecks, those that do not work will not have to worry, right?.

Get it? health care reform is nothing but a hoax and a scam without a public option to compete.

Everything they have been telling about socialization is nothing but a joke, the biggest theft that we have endured has been bailing out banks with our tax payer money now we are to pay by force to support private insurance profits margins.

Wake up people because is really getting dangerous in this nation to even breath anymore, wait when the Crap and trade hoax hit us in our butts next also.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by SaturnFX


Thanks, your post is the best post I have read that tells exactly what is going on, but trust me the money put on propaganda to blind the people into believing what the private insurance dirty rats wants has been very effective, you can see it in the way people react to public option, you can not find anybody even taking into consideration what mandatory servitude to a private entity meansincredible.

Nobody here that are against public option understand that the ones that pushed mandatory private insurance, the fines and penalties were all concocted by the same private insurance themselves with the handful of congress whores that they have in their pockets.

But that is OK, I hope when the crap hit the fan and hit everybody that has not taken the time to understand what mandatory means they will be complaining here that they didn't know anything about it.

Pitiful, mandatory = servitude

reply to post by marg6043


I completely agree and this is what I attempted to echo in my OP.

This health care debate will only benefit the powerful healthcare and pharmaceutical companies.

And they will get Tax Payer money out of it too.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


When you get discussion like this one in this thread that shows how people react thanks to the propaganda going on and pay by millions of dollars it makes you really understand why, we are falling as a nation.

We are becoming a nation of servants to the private interest, our own government is making sure we pay our masters or else.

Now tell me if that is not short of what dictatorships do.

Originally posted by marg6043
Pitiful, mandatory = servitude

I don't think so Marg. Mandatory coverage is what will bring down health care costs more than competition. Right now the way the health care system works is that no one is refused treatment if they need it, so many uninsured patients get treatment and can't pay the high cost and don't pay so the hospitals have to spread out the cost to all of us that do pay. that is one reason why the cost of health care insurance is skyrocketing. If insurance was mandatory, then hospitals would not have to spread this cost to us.

Mandatory coverage would be like paying into social security most of your life even if you don't need it, then you receive the benefit later when you need it.

Of course I also think there are other ways to help the medical industry cut costs like tort reform that will be beneficial to both sides. These issues are the only way we will solve this problem. We don't really have to have a public option, so I would not say that it is the deal breaker. Other reforms are more important in my opinion.

reply to post by Hal9000


Again you also fail to see that making the tax payer mandatory to support a private entity like private health care insurance is unconstitutional.

Where in our Constitution said that we are to be forced into servitude to a private entity.

SS goes back into the people and so the two entitlement programs we have Medicare and Medicaid it goes back to the people.

Paying private insurance companies is not exempt from them to profit.

If they were not making any money out of having the tax payer as servants why will they be in the business of insurances.

Just take your time and think about what is going on.

Private insurances wants premiums higher because is not way they will be reaping profits with having 40 million more people in their books and no longer be able to deny coverage for pre existing conditions, that will erode their profits.

We are going to be taken for a ride with this health care bill without public option and by the time people get the deceptions is going to be too late.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Hal9000

 

Again you also fail to see that making the tax payer mandatory to support a private entity like private health care insurance is unconstitutional.

Where in our Constitution said that we are to be forced into servitude to a private entity.

OK, I see what you are saying now. It would be unconstitutional if they make it mandatory and did NOT have the public option. If the only choice is private insurance, then they shouldn't make it mandatory. Is that right?

If so, that is a good point.

reply to post by Hal9000


Exactly, Hal, see the first votes that went to the bill on the health care reform doesn't included public option, but still have the mandatory clause and the penalties and fees for not owning a health care that is going to be provided by only private insurance.

Congress is supposed to add a public option, but that public option is not public option at all, is just amendments to the Medicare and Medicaid to qualify more people but still it will medicare will be suffering cuts.

less money but more people to be covered.

While anybody that works and make a check have to buy mandatory private insurance.

Then another of the options to the bill is paying people that can not afford the private insurances with subsidies again more tax payer money.

Then everything is been done behind close doors, remember how much our president was telling about transparency? in behind close doors you don't know who are the lobbyist that are pushing the policies that will affect us the most when bills are passed.

Just remember private insurance are paying a lot of money to push what they want, no what we need, they are in the business of making profits no losing money, if they are to lose money they will get out of business and so far they are not.