AP Headline from 2004? "Kenyan-born Obama"

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Here's the thing about WND, they just can't get their facts straight.

A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.

www.wnd.com...

Why anyone would think WND is a valid news source is beyond me.

you're the fool that posted an msnbc clip. what are YOU talking about?
ge/nbc are so far up obama's butt that when he cuts one he checks his underwear for peacocks.

not only that, but you are relying on THS DAILY KOS(snicker)for your info. i.e. the COLB

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

1. You keep referencing the foreign born child

And you referenced anyone and I replied like wise.

but regardless I've stated several times my question on the BC is over the possibility his Mom claimed a home birth in order to obtain US citizenship for him.

Right, I will address you again. You are refering to this act right here:

1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable:
a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.

Firstly, this is what I requested from you specifically. You claimed this policy and yet you failed to source the information yourself. When you choose to talk you back your accusations with evidence. Its not my job to prove your arguments. As far as I can see it, when you make a claim and refuse to prove it, Im going to call you out for what it is.

You are wrong in your assumption that just about anybody can claim their child was born on US soil:

By Melody Lassalle
How did a person go about getting a delayed birth certificate? The person filled out an “Application for Certificate of Hawaiian Birth”. This application asked for basic details such as name, place of birth, date of birth, current address, race of father and mother, father’s name, mother’s name, and any physical identifying marks.

The applicant then appeared before the Court. The applicant was interviewed by a representative of the Secretary of Hawaii. At that time, the applicant gave testimony about their birth, parentage, siblings, etc. They presented any documentation that proved they were born in Hawaii. This might include baptismal or other religious records, their parents’ immigration reocrds, or parents’ marriage records.

Next, witnesses gave testimony on the applicant’s behalf. The witnesses might be family members or friends. They had to have first hand knowledge of the applicant’s parentage, birth, and details of their early life. This information was needed to corroborate the applicant’s story.

After the witnesses gave testimony, the applicant might be called back to clarify any discrepancies. The case was reviewed and an official ruling was made. This delayed birth record could then serve the purpose of a real birth certificate.

The delayed birth record provides a wealth of information for family genealogists. First, you’ll find testimony from the applicant and witnesses. Many of the questions can resolve questions about parentage, spouses, children, and siblings. Second, copies of documentation or typed notes from the documentation are included. This is very helpful especially if you need to locate the church that your ancestors were members of or need to know where your ancestors parents were from.

hawaii.gov...
nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...

So no you are wrong again, nobody could merely claim and gain a birth certificate.

The long form would clear that up.

This is a very tired excuse, but I will happily reply to this again:

When you choose not to believe this:

www.politifact.com...

short form:
www.politifact.com...

Verified by these state officials:

To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records.
"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008.

www.politifact.com...

Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama's birth certificate and found it to be valid.

www.starbulletin.com...

With this, the bottom where it clearly presents a seal and the signature of director for the health department of Hawaii, Alvin T. Onaka.

www.factcheck.org...
www.factcheck.org...

But you choose to believe a title of an article with no original link, with no verication, or bloggers who have no evidence or facts to back up their claims, little is going to change.

Your accusation was that I was "making it up".

You stated that "anybody could claim" to attain a birth certificate. That is incorrect. It took more than a mere claim to grant the child a birth certificate and Obama would have a attained a delayed birth certificate and it would have been noted on his short form.

You don't get to define what sources I find credible. WND was reporting on an investigation

WND was "reporting and investigating", thats all I need to hear from you on that matter.

SG

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Spectre0o0

 

Why don't you call each State Secretary and ask for the nomination forms? You know, the forms that Nancy Pelosi sent to each state telling them that Obama was the person the DNC wants put on the ballot?

Does research scare you people? I give you links to actual Hawaiian laws from the Hawaiian government websites and I am referred to Blogs? I mean C'mon people.

But, like I said before this conspiracy is awesome for Obama, the more this goes on the worse the right looks.

[edit on 10/17/2009 by whatukno]

THOSE FORMS ARE ALREADY POSTED IN THIS THREAD BY ME. THEY ARE MISSING THE CONSTITUTIONAL ELEGIBILTY CLAUSE.

here thet are again. read em and weep.d emocratic nomination forms

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Jenna


To be fair, it's entirely possible that whoever delivered Obama is either dead and gone or doesn't remember one baby out of thousands.

Absolutely! I am totally with you on that. But I find it hard to accept that every nurse medical transcriptor and kindergarten teacher forgot... I mean you need a BC to enter Public school... They would of saw it.

I just think at least one person out of the multitude would not only remember..but would be proud of the memory...

That none have shown up...that no school has a record of the photo copy or even a check mark box..


That the opposition posts links to Jpgs saying they have signatures when the links they give have no signature...

This all raises our suspicions.

We need to see a long form...

reply to post by Spectre0o0


Now did you call the State Secretary and ask why they accepted them? Or are you just saying that because it fits your narrow view of what's legal?

Do you know for sure exactly what wording needs to be on each of the 50 forms the states receive? Perhaps doing a little research, calling these people is what you need to do instead of assuming that you are right, make sure your right.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian


With this, the bottom where it clearly presents a seal and the signature of director for the health department of Hawaii, Alvin T. Onaka.

Again I post to you Southern Guardian. You are not telling the truth either by accident or with intent.

The JPG you post a link to... The public BC has no signature by Alvin T. Onaka... If you see other wise please state where you see it.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by titorite]

reply to post by whatukno


you just got research,keith. don't you read what you criticize?

they say ignorance is bliss. you must be the foremost expert on it. is it really?

reply to post by Spectre0o0

THOSE FORMS ARE ALREADY POSTED IN THIS THREAD BY ME. THEY ARE MISSING THE CONSTITUTIONAL ELEGIBILTY CLAUSE.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7d59f3f98c13.jpg[/atsimg]

Did you not actually look at the link you sent me?

jbjd.wordpress.com...

reply to post by whatukno


np didn't accept them,she AUTHORED THEM. why were there 2 versions? they are notarized by the same person. and the reason is?????????????

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Spectre0o0

you are a moron.

Thanks, that's nice I think that is the first time you used a fact in this thread.

In fact there are 50 different versions of this same form. One was sent to every single state in the union. My advice? Call each and every state and ask them if they accepted these forms, ask them if the constitution clause was on the forms. Then ask if that is legal for them to accept a form if it does not have the clause attached.

But, you wont. Why? That's more like doing research than just posting someone else's flawed blog about the issue.

[edit on 10/18/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by Spectre0o0

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
you win, i admit it. there is no way for you to realize what is going on here.
logic does not apply in your small world. you are in another state of mind.
getting you to think critically is like masturbating with a cheese grater.

chew it up,mods

I have been following these threads for a little while now, I am well aware of exactly what is going on.

I do think critically, I in fact think for myself and don't follow the crowd. Even on ATS I don't buy into every single conspiracy without checking it out. This is what is called thinking for ones self. If someone tells me the sky is blue, I go out to check just to make sure it's not raining.

reply to post by whatukno


I provided a link to the original article about the investigation, WND was merely referencing that investigation.

The real article, again - link provided lists every relevant Hawaii statute which applies. I don't care about the political bias of this site or that site - you keep posting at least one politically biased website and claiming it as absolute proof. The content of the investigation article is well supported with references.

The only issue in that article that I care about is the fact (fact backed by the Hawaii statutes, again) that it was possible to claim a home birth with no attending physician or midwife and obtain a long form BC though certain information would be missing from it.

I would like to know if the long form lists a hospital and physician in order to rule out the possibility that Obama's Mother used the home birth loophole to obtain a BC.

Why some of you can't see why that would be a valid question is not because of anything other than political bias, period.

I was asked to provide a source for my assertion that home births could obtain a BC in Hawaii at that time and I am fully satisfied that I've done so.

reply to post by ecoparity


So what your saying is, Ann Dunham, pregnant with Obama, left her home in Hawaii, traveled to Kenya, had Obama in Kenya, flew back, then got a bc from Hawaii right?

See, you have to prove to Hawaii that you are a resident, and have been for a year prior to the birth in order to get a Hawaiian birth certificate.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


You can try to twist the facts all you want to, I can see through it and I'm sure everyone else can as well.

The question at hand:
Was it possible for someone to obtain a Hawaii BC by claiming a home birth?

As you posted yourself - Yes it was.

I was right and I've proven it. The more you try to manipulate the issue the more dishonest you appear. Keep it up, I'm thoroughly enjoying watching you shoot yourself in the foot.

reply to post by ecoparity


So exactly what part about a home birth makes him illegitimate? If he was born at home in Hawaii, doesn't that still mean he was born in Hawaii? Or somehow does being born at home within the united states automatically make him Kenyan?

reply to post by whatukno


The proof of residency can be a family member speaking on your behalf. The point of contention is that it was not only possible for this to be done but that if fits with other aspects of the conspiracy.

A great deal of circumstantial evidence but we send people to prison every day based on it.

Missing long form BC, missing school records, missing passport records, possible issues with social security number + news articles being edited or taken down = conspiracy.

You don't have any questions about any of that, fine. That's your business. Trying to stop other people from having questions about it? Complete waste of time and a bit of "control freak" mentality, IMO.

Originally posted by ecoparity
You can try to twist the facts all you want to,

Im not the one twisting facts, and will happily remind you of your original statement:

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

At that time in Hawaii anyone could walk into a hospital, claim to have given birth at home and would be issued a birth certificate.

To which I clearly proved thats a blatant lie. Nobody could simply walk into a hospital and "claim" the circumstances of birth. Documentation needed to be provided of birth on soil of the child atleast a year following the childs birth. The parents will then have to appear before a court to prove the child was born on Hawaiian soil. From there if successful they would recieve a delayed birth certificate.

By Melody Lassalle
How did a person go about getting a delayed birth certificate? The person filled out an “Application for Certificate of Hawaiian Birth”. This application asked for basic details such as name, place of birth, date of birth, current address, race of father and mother, father’s name, mother’s name, and any physical identifying marks.

The applicant then appeared before the Court. The applicant was interviewed by a representative of the Secretary of Hawaii. At that time, the applicant gave testimony about their birth, parentage, siblings, etc. They presented any documentation that proved they were born in Hawaii. This might include baptismal or other religious records, their parents’ immigration reocrds, or parents’ marriage records.

Next, witnesses gave testimony on the applicant’s behalf. The witnesses might be family members or friends. They had to have first hand knowledge of the applicant’s parentage, birth, and details of their early life. This information was needed to corroborate the applicant’s story.

After the witnesses gave testimony, the applicant might be called back to clarify any discrepancies. The case was reviewed and an official ruling was made. This delayed birth record could then serve the purpose of a real birth certificate.

The delayed birth record provides a wealth of information for family genealogists. First, you’ll find testimony from the applicant and witnesses. Many of the questions can resolve questions about parentage, spouses, children, and siblings. Second, copies of documentation or typed notes from the documentation are included. This is very helpful especially if you need to locate the church that your ancestors were members of or need to know where your ancestors parents were from.

hawaii.gov...
nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...

Theres no twisting of facts. You made a claim and you failed to back it up.

SG

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ecoparity

 

So exactly what part about a home birth makes him illegitimate? If he was born at home in Hawaii, doesn't that still mean he was born in Hawaii? Or somehow does being born at home within the united states automatically make him Kenyan?

Don't act stupid. You just posted a patronizing summary which indicates you know full well why the home birth loop hole raises questions the long form BC would answer.

Yet another obvious indication you're here to manipulate people and attack anyone who dares to question your chosen politician. I hate it when people accuse folks of being disinfo agents but given your posting activity on ATS is almost completely political lobbying I'd suggest you go put in an application. May as well get paid for all the good work, right?