AP Headline from 2004? "Kenyan-born Obama"

reply to post by whatukno


well here's what i came up with:
factcheck-re port contained false info.

snopes-message.snopes.com...

and politifact claims thAt every thing that is said against barry is a lie
all very credible sources,if you are an obamatron.
does your cable tv have only msnbc on it?

please all these places have been debunked .

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Spectre0o0]

reply to post by Spectre0o0


Once again,

BLOGS AREN'T RELIABLE SOURCES!

:shk:

And we are not talking about ACORN. Shesh oh PETE get on topic. Birth Certificate: Kenyan Born Obama (bull dunk) news article from Africa.

Is this really how you expect to debate me? With deflection onto other topics when your loosing the argument? Please, stick to the facts in the case. Not off topic idiocy about Acorn.

Once again so we are clear, BLOGS AREN'T FACTS.

What they cannot provide is a long form BC which is what I would like to see to settle the issue.

His already provided:

Obama's short form:
www.politifact.com...

and

www.politifact.com...

Which was verified by state officials:

To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records.
"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008.

www.politifact.com...

Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama's birth certificate and found it to be valid.

www.starbulletin.com...

The bottom there clearly presents a seal and the signature of director for the health department of Hawaii, Alvin T. Onaka.

www.factcheck.org...
www.factcheck.org...

So all I can say to that tired old excuse is BS.

And in reply to your comment regarding how "anybody can get a short form BC in Hawaii", thats a full blown lie.

Hawaiian Law §338-17.8 says:

Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child… [L 1982, c 182, §1]

The law cited preceding did not exist until its passage in 1982 (the “L 1982″) , 21 years after Barack Obama’s birth registration on August 8, 1961.

nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...

Get your facts straight thanks.

The short form BC proves nothing.

The short form birth certificate is legally sufficient under Hawaii law and in most states. Infact, the majority of americans use their short form birth certificates as reference to proof of citizenship. I did so years back for my passport, I did so to renew my drivers licence, infact if anything I didnt know a "long form" existed until last here when this conspiracy came up.

Your essentially saying that the short form birth certificates, that the majority of americans have used as evidence of citizenship for years, "proves nothing". Thats what your essentially saying here.

That's all you seem to have.

What evidence exactly do you have? Speculation? Assumptions? An article with the a title that cant be traced back to any original source, with no author, with no verification of the article.... just one link through an archival site.

"all you have". Damn straight.

SG

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Pffffffffffft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take your evidence and official statements and go somewhere else with them. We have a fake African news article that is poorly written. That is the holy freakin' grail man.

reply to post by Lillydale


OMG!!!!

Obama admits himself he wasn't born in the USA!!! I FOUND IT!



MY GOD! I have been wrong this whole time!!!

[edit on 10/17/2009 by whatukno]

I am wondering if this article has already been shown. Seen on comments section of postnemail. Yet another, this time from Ghana.

www.modernghana.com...

A Congressional Quarterly (CQ) politics monitored on BBC put the Kenyan born American ahead of his rival, Senator McCain.

Here is the explanation of how the first AP article was found

birthers.org...

Here is a great article explaining why Obama is not constitutional, why the government is not and why he needs to be marched out forthwith.

thepostnemail.wordpress.com...

1) We are not certain that his legal name is “Barack Hussein Obama”. In the election his supporters chided everyone for calling him by that name. They insisted it was “Barack Obama”. But an Indonesian reporter found his school registration in that country, and his name appears there as, “Barry Soetero.” A former U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican, who was one of his professors at Harvard University, remarked, “I knew him as ‘Barry’; the first time I heard “Barack”, was when he ran for the Presidency.”

And here is the info and link to the affadavit showing the various use of his SSN number issued in the state of Connecticut and the 53 addresses associated with that number and possible fraudulent use. Interestingly enough his mother’s SS is still active apparently and the family seems to open businesses after ‘death’ under known aliases, and seem to have so many of the same sort of multiple address listings and companies under various aliases.

thepostnemail.wordpress.com...

Since no one is investigating, the presumption is that Obama does not object to the association of his SSN to all these addresses; hence he is tacitly admitting that his SSN was used with his permission at these 53 addresses.

And for those who think it’s a closed case.

The State of Hawaii will soon be forced to reveal the information it used to declare Barack Obama a Natural Born citizen. This will be very interesting, considering Obama’s Father was a British Citizen. therefore Barack Obama Jr is also a British Citizen, and was at birth by the very nature of his parentage.

Barack Obama, by legal definitions going back to the 1600’s is not, was not, and never has been a Natural Born Citizen. It does not matter where Barack Obama was born; he was a dual American/British/Kenyan citizen. He could have been born on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. itself, and it would not matter. The basic fact of Barack Obama’s parentage remains the same. A Dual Citizen cannot ever be a Natural Born Citizen.

www.examiner.com...

There is an Usurper in the White House, and his name is Barack Obama. He and those who aided him in this usurpation, including the DNC are guilty of Treason to the United States. Every law that has been passed, every treaty signed, every order issued to the military has zero legal weight.

This leads to a singularly terrifying reality that must be dealt with. The United States does not have a constitutional government.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
The short form birth certificate is legally sufficient under Hawaii law and in most states. Infact, the majority of americans use their short form birth certificates as reference to proof of citizenship. I did so years back for my passport, I did so to renew my drivers licence, infact if anything I didnt know a "long form" existed until last here when this conspiracy came up.

Your essentially saying that the short form birth certificates, that the majority of americans have used as evidence of citizenship for years, "proves nothing". Thats what your essentially saying here.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Do you notice that you keep saying that the short form birth certificate proves citizenship?

You are absolutely right -- it does!

Unfortunately, there is a difference between being a citizen and being a natural born citizen.

Hence the debate.

Most of us realize that Obama is a citizen of the US. So is Arnold. However, Arnold can not be President.

reply to post by lpowell0627


The difference between the Govonator and Obama is that Arnie can't get a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii.

Hawaii does have the long form BC. They have confirmed they do have it.


www.kxma.com

Please note that real state officials have verified the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii. They have personally verified that they do have the original birth certificate on file.

There is no information contained on the long form birth certificate that would make it any more legally valid than the COLB that has been verified as genuine and accurate. In fact, the COLB (or short form ) is perfectly legal for any public office/drivers license/passport/social security card etc. Why?

It says so right at the bottom of the COLB.

"This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19 ]"

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health.

But birthers, please, keep going, keep looking, the reason? Because the more you make this an issue the worse it looks for the Republican party. The fact is, I prey that this issue comes up in the next election. I beg you to please bring this up. If you somehow convince the GOP rival to Obama in 2012 to bring this up it will pretty much guarantee Obama another term. So please birthers. Keep going. I love you all.

Every time I see Orly Taitz come up in a thread I giggle with glee, knowing that is just more ammo for some Republican to potentially fatally use in a debate against Obama. So keep looking I beg of you cause the more you do the more you make it possible for Obama to be re elected.

See, Obama was really born in Hawaii to an American mother. Yes his father was Kenyan, but he was more importantly, born in Hawaii (remember, verified by state officials) To an American mother, (not in question as far as I know) which makes him a certified and verified natural born citizen and thus perfectly eligible for the job of POTUS.

See, it also doesn't matter that his father was Kenyan and thus automatically gave Obama dual citizenship. It really doesn't. Unless someone can come up with some form to the US State Department that Obama or his parents signed which renounces his citizenship here in the United States, it wouldn't matter where in the world Obama grew up or what school he attended. The reason? The United States does not nor has ever recognized the laws from other countries.

In fact, it doesn't matter that Obama changed his name. OOOHHH "the Barry Soetoro scandal!" (oooh he went there!) It doesn't matter that he attended school in Indonesia. Why? Because he was BORN in Hawaii, a state in the United States, to an American mother. He never renounced his citizenship to the United States (If he did, you could find out through a simple FOIA request )

But keep believing in every vague Kenya born Obama title in every irrelevant obscure source, PLEASE! Because the more you do that, the better it is for the Democrats and the president to be re-elected.


[edit on 10/17/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


At that time in Hawaii anyone could walk into a hospital, claim to have given birth at home and would be issued a birth certificate. The Hospital, attending physician and so on would not be on the form.

This is why certain government agencies have policies which state they will accept a short form certificate except in specific cases.

If you have proof this policy was not in place in Hawaii at that time then please provide it. Otherwise a short form certificate for a person during that time period in Hawaii is not valid proof of citizenship, especially when any supporting documentation has been sealed.

I'd love to have a solid answer on this question but unfortunately every document which would provide that has been hidden.

Anyone who thinks suspicion over that is not justified in any way is either completely unrealistic or acting out of political bias alone. I see at least one member here at ATS who has made said political bias the center of his existence on the forum. That would be acting as a lobbyist, for compensation or not.

reply to post by ecoparity


I just showed you with links you can follow to check me on it. Check it out. WOW legitimate articles. Legitimate laws that you can verify and check yourself. OOHH Reality hurts!

After having a discussion with my mother, going through my family history pictures etc. something rather interesting has come up.

I was not born in the USA but I have a US birth certificate.

My father was stationed in Germany (Army) ...... I was born there but my BC shows that I was born in Lawton Oklahoma.

In fact I have it in front of me now, and it shows Fort Sill, Oklahoma, U.S. Army Hospital.

I can prove that I was born in Germany, in fact the first five years of my life was there, not in America.... So am I American, or German?

My U.S. citizenship has never been questioned, nor has it ever been a problem for me... No chance of me ever running for president so I suppose I have no worries.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ecoparity

 

I just showed you with links you can follow to check me on it. Check it out. WOW legitimate articles. Legitimate laws that you can verify and check yourself. OOHH Reality hurts!

No, you didn't. You provided links to the same articles which address the allegations that the short form was a forgery.

In fact, that's all you've done for the last 3 pages is continue to go on and on about the short form being absolute proof and continue to ignore the actual question or issue being raised.

Here I'll type slow so you can understand....

The short form does not settle the issue because of the policy in Hawaii of issuing them to Mothers who claimed to have given birth at home. This policy was changed at some point due to abuse.

I've read no claims that Obama was born at home so he should have a valid, long form certificate. I have yet to read a single valid excuse for why he refuses to provide that long form certificate which for me, at least would settle the question.

All the links to articles in the World about the short form do not address that question and no, claims by a few state officials in Hawaii do not give me any confidence. If you want to take their word for it because it supports your bias then please do so. I'd like to know what is on that form or missing from it that requires it to be sealed. The same goes for school transcripts and anything else Obama's attorney's managed to hide.

You on the other hand don't want to know and don't want anyone else to see it because it just might prove something about your pet politician.

Documents like these aren't hidden and news articles manipulated for no
reason, I'd like to know what that reason is and would feel the same about any President regardless of party affiliation.

You've made it extremely clear where your motivations lie and your credibility in that regard is non existent, IMO.

reply to post by whatukno


OH and since you brought up Social Security, when you apply for a child's social security number they don't accept any BC as proof, they contact the hospital directly.

What do you need for a child's SS Card?

If this latest discovery is true about Obama having made use of a Social Security number which was not his own that issue might just fit.

I don't know what the full story on that is but the best conspiracies grow complex as the connecting evidence builds. The truth is simple, you see.

Hopefully at least one of the court cases will result in the judge as well as the plaintiffs being able to view all these documents which have been sealed away. Maybe then we'll finally find out what it is they're trying so hard to hide about this man.

reply to post by Walkswithfish


US military bases are considered US soil. Since you were born on an army base, it doesn't matter where it was located.

For more information, research McCain. It applies to him as well.

reply to post by lpowell0627


But I wasn't born on base, my birth happened unexpectedly off base in Ansbach Germany. I have proof of that, but again in my case I am convinced it is not an issue, It came up during a debate with one of my family members when we were discussing the Obama birth issues.

I means absolutely nothing to me now, other than being a rather interesting fact for me to think about.

reply to post by ecoparity

No, you didn't. You provided links to the same articles which address the allegations that the short form was a forgery.

Well if the short form isn't a forgery, and Hawaiian officials confirm that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii. Makes it kinda hard for anyone to say that he wasn't.

In fact, that's all you've done for the last 3 pages is continue to go on and on about the short form being absolute proof and continue to ignore the actual question or issue being raised.

That is because the short form or COLB is legitimate, legal proof of someone being born in the state of Hawaii, I have not only went on and on about this fact, but I also substantiated this fact with actual Hawaiian laws to support it.

Here I'll type slow so you can understand....

Thank you for typing slow, because it matters so much in the end after you hit the submit button.

The short form does not settle the issue because of the policy in Hawaii of issuing them to Mothers who claimed to have given birth at home. This policy was changed at some point due to abuse.

Read the statutes of the State of Hawaii and give me specific laws and statutes to prove your point. I bothered to do that with my argument. If your not able to do the same well that is your problem not mine.

I've read no claims that Obama was born at home so he should have a valid, long form certificate. I have yet to read a single valid excuse for why he refuses to provide that long form certificate which for me, at least would settle the question.

I got one, maybe, he doesn't want to give you one because the short form is valid. Maybe it's because that no matter what you won't believe it, so there is no point in showing you the long form birth certificate. Fact of the matter is, there is no information on the long form birth certificate that makes it any more valid than the short form. Birthers just want to whine about the long form yet have no actual valid reason to see it. The short form is legal and valid, the Hawaiian officials have personally affirmed that they do have the long form. It doesnt matter to Birthers, because as I have said before, and I am sure I will say again. This issue isn't about the truth it's about trying to remove from office a politician that birthers have a personal beef with.

All the links to articles in the World about the short form do not address that question and no, claims by a few state officials in Hawaii do not give me any confidence. If you want to take their word for it because it supports your bias then please do so. I'd like to know what is on that form or missing from it that requires it to be sealed. The same goes for school transcripts and anything else Obama's attorney's managed to hide.

Male bovine fecal matter,l and you know it.

You on the other hand don't want to know and don't want anyone else to see it because it just might prove something about your pet politician.

I don't give a rats ass what is on the long form. There is no information on the long form that would make the short form any less valid. I showed you Hawaiian statutes that prove the short form is a perfectly valid form. Please prove me wrong.

Documents like these aren't hidden and news articles manipulated for no
reason, I'd like to know what that reason is and would feel the same about any President regardless of party affiliation.

Because your living in a fantasy world where the government is out to get you. where an evil usurper president born on Mars stole the election by somehow managing to manipulate EVERYONE and thus has achieved the place he is at for the specific reason of destroying the USA from the inside.

You've made it extremely clear where your motivations lie and your credibility in that regard is non existent, IMO.

Don't believe me I could really give a crap, look it up yourself, please do a minimal amount of research yourself instead of relying on everyone else to do it for you.


[edit on 10/17/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


This is what I meant in earlier posts about how people are so easily deceived by partial and incomplete answers.

All Hawaii is saying is that they have his original Birth Certificate and have seen it.

That is not the same as saying what’s on the Birth Certificate and it’s not the same as publicly releasing the information that is on the Birth Certificate.

Intelligent people know that at that point in time you could be born virtually anywhere in the world and get a Hawaiian Birth Certificate up to one year later from that point in time.

The Hawaiian Health Department is not claiming it’s a Certificate of Live Birth denoting he was born in Hawaii; they are just claiming they have his original Birth Certificate.

The Hawaiian Health Department is not claiming Obama was born in Hawaii, just that they have his original Birth Certificate.

The Hawaiian Health Department is basically giving an incomplete and partial answer for people such as yourself who will then construe that incomplete and partial answer into what you want to believe. Hawaii doesn’t have to lie about it, they just have to be vaguely official about it, which will prompt you to lie to yourself and others about it.

A critical and intelligent mind would see the official Hawaiian Statement for what it is, a carefully worded partial and incomplete answer. A critical and intelligent mind would then ask why a carefully worded obviously partial and incomplete answer is being given.

If you want to upgrade the quality of your life you first have to upgrade the quality of your questions.

You have to know how to formulate precise questions and you have to be able to recognize when the information being communicated in return does not completely answer your question.

The Statement that the Hawaiian Government has offered does not completely answer the question, it simply is an answer for non-critical thinking unintelligent people who will accept anything that appears to partially answer a question as a full answer to the question even though it does not precisely address the question fully or answer it fully.

Clinging to partially and cleverly worded incomplete answers as a complete rendering of the facts is foolish, and only a fool would want or need to do so.

Critical minds require all the facts not some supposition.


[edit on 17/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by whatukno


The laws and policies of 1960 -x Hawaii aren't exactly archived online which I'm sure you already know. Then again all the Obama defender websites just skip right over that aspect of the issue which they wouldn't do if they could possibly counter it.

It's what's going to be missing on the long form certificate that I find interesting. I can see only one, maybe two scenarios which would justify the expense of sealing up all those records and one of them involves manipulation of the system by his Momma and oddly enough, that's something else that fits with her history when it came to getting Jr access to things.

I'm in it for the conspiracy and unraveling the cover-up, I couldn't care less about "stopping Obama". Anyone who would replace him would be just as bought and paid for by the exact same power players.

My favorite Obama conspiracy is the Larry Sinclair story, you know - the homosexual who claims to have had a little "coke and choke" party with then Senator Obama in the back of a limo. Now that one has legs - murders, Biden's son using the power of the prosecutor's office to go after Mr. (Miss) Sinclair - much better story line if you ask me. Best of all it fits all the previous weirdness with high level politicians and closeted sexuality issues.

Clinton was the turning point in American presidential politics. Everyone who sits in that chair from here out is going to be one seriously twisted dude (or lady). They need some very dirty politicians to keep the reigns on now.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I wonder why it was necessary for Obama's legal team to run around meeting with Hawaii govt reps just before they came out and said "we verify there is a BC"?

I can't be the only one who noticed that official looked seriously upset. Kind of "deer in the headlights" but I'm sure that was just a reaction to all the media attention or maybe that's how someone acts and looks when they get pulled down into a slimy pit of cover up.

So what's on that long form that needs to be hidden away? No hospital / Dr's name indicating a claim of home birth or is there perhaps something even stranger going on?

They've done a bag up job of trying to hide the evidence and that's what I find so hilarious. Usually the "skeptics" will go, so and so would be dead or they'd make such and such vanish". Stuff is disappearing like a magic show performed by crack heads on this one but the more people dig around the more they'll turn up and best of all - now they know to archive things before they too go "away".

I really need to look into the social security number thing, that one's awesome if it has any truth to it. Something like that would be difficult to overcome. They can't hide everything and if they try, well we get to a point where privacy claims just don't wash (and I think we arrived there when his school records went away, personally).

reply to post by Southern Guardian


That's a good question my friend!

While I haven't seen her certification of live birth online like Obama's, the best I can do is give you the source, and article written by Gregory Dail on examiner.com:

Did you know? Obama’s half sister, born in Indonesia, has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth

I think you can find his contact information there and ask him to furnish proof of what he published.

The biggest question is not whether Maya Soetoro has one or not, but would Hawaii issue this document to foreign born children and if you research that you'll find the answer is that yes they did. So the document may be proof of citizenship, but may not be proof of being a natural born citizen.

So just like this gentleman who is a US citizen:

reply to post by Walkswithfish


Walkswithfish's birth certificate that shows he was born in the USA really doesn't prove he was born in the USA. (he wasn't). It merely shows he is a US citizen. (Thanks for the interesting anecdote walkswithfish, sorry if that throws a damper on your presidential aspirations )

Merely providing a birth certificate only shows that one is a citizen and does not show that one is a natural born citizen. Supporting documents must be provided to validate the "natural born" part, and in January Judge Carter could order Obama to provide the supporting document (his certificate of live birth)

Apparently the trial demanding disclosure of this document is set to proceed according to this schedule:

www.orlytaitzesq.com...
(Posted October 7th 2009)

Case No. SACV09-0082 DOC (ANx) Date October 5, 2009

Title CAPTAIN PAMELA BARNETT, ET AL. V. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, ET AL.

Present: The Honorable David O. Carter, U.S. District Judge

Motion for Summary Judgment Hearing December 7, 2009, at 8:30 a.m.

File Motion for Summary Judgment November 16, 2009

Opposition to Motion for Summary Judgment November 26, 2009

Reply to Motion for Summary Judgment November 30, 2009

Final Pretrial Conference January 11, 2010, at 8:30 a.m.

Jury Trial January 26, 2010, at 8:30 a.m.

So that case has got some more hurdles to cross before making it to Jury Trial in January but it looks like it's proceeding.

While we argue back and forth with each other over whether Obama should show his certificate of live birth (the one with hospital information etc), that may soon be a moot argument if Judge Carter orders him to do so.

Then we can all go debate something more productive.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by Arbitrageur]