People that shouldn't be tolerated within a schoolsystem

I'm putting this in 'people' because it seems the only place fit for it.

This post contains a few sentences with an obvious sexual tone. These are however quotations and I felt it was important to use them so people would get a grasp of the event that I'm describing, since there really isn't any other way to make that clear. I hope the mods tolerate it and won't delete the entire post because of it

I'm not sure how schoolsystems are in other countries when it comes to religious classes, but over here the kids get two hours a week of these. There is a Christianity class for Christians and catholics, a protestant class, an Islam class and for those who don't follow a specific religion there is a 'morals class'
My daughter always took the morals class because I am not religious and I thought that this class would give her more values... basically it deals with the problems of the world and our society, which are then debated to stimulate the child to develop an opinion.
While the children who take religious classes celebrate their communion at the age of 12, the children in the morals class celebrate something called 'liberal youth"(which has nothing to do with the political stance). In that week they can go to camp... just for fun.

So 4 years ago, my niece was 12 and for the liberal youth celebration she wanted to go to camp.

A few months earlier I had a parent teacher meeting at the school. At the same time there was sort of an open house for the morals class, so I decided to stop by there after my meeting with the teacher.
There was a slide show about the camp, lots of informative folders and the people who organized the whole thing where also present.
I started to chat with a guy, he was one of the camp leaders who went with the kids every year. It turned out that he was also involved in political activities in my city. We sat down, I was offered a cup of coffee and some biscuits and we started talking.
Then at one point we started to discuss our opinions about religion. Next the conversation turned very awkward.
This guys started telling me that he was a humanist, a naturist and a nudist. Ok, 'that's fine' I said, you do whatever you want in your free time. (I'm not one to judge people on this). He talked about how he was chairman of the humanist organization... Next he continues about nudism, what it is and how he learned that sexuality is only in the mind.
I told him that I was not comfortable with the way this conversation was going, but he continued:
(these are his exact words) "you my lady, how pretty you are standing here in front of me, but even if you where naked you couldn't give me an erection if you wanted to. I on the other hand, could make you wet in seconds, because you haven't learned to control the sexuality in your mind". He went on and on like that.

There where other people in that classroom, I'm sure some of them overheard that conversation, yet no one reacted on it as if that was a normal conversation!. I took my coat and left.
I'm not a prude or anything, this is the kind of talk you expect from drunk men in a bar. As a woman you know when to prepare yourself for such trash talk, but it is not something you expect to hear in your kids schools! So no, I wasn't prepared for this and he shocked me.
When I came home and told my husband about it, he jumped up and said "I'm going to break his face!". He almost went to the school, but I decide to call my aunt, who I knew had gone to that meeting earlier that evening.

So my aunt listened to me and then she said that she had talked to that same guy, and from some of the things he had said, she decided to not let her daughter go to camp. He had said things to her like "the kids love me, they love to sit on my lap all day" or "they are safe with me, I sleep in the same bedroom as them". My aunt didn't trust this guy for a bit.

The next week me and my aunt went to the school counsel and told our story. My aunt told them that she wouldn't let her kid go on camp if that guy went with them and that she would warn other parents. They talked it over with the guy. There was even arguing about how I showed 'over dressed' as if he wanted to imply that it was my own fault? (He didn't say it but that's what I made of it). Yes, I was wearing a black womens suit with a skirt and high heels, because I went there directly from work and that's how we dressed at my work place, it was formal, not sexy. Still that didn't gave him the right to that trash talk.
The school decided that he couldn't go on camp with the kids that year. They thanked us for keeping it out of the local papers because this thing could have damaged the schools image.
One week before camp the school council changed their minds. So my niece stayed home.
That was 4 years ago.

Now this schoolyear my daughter turns 12 and it's her turn to go to camp. She really wants to go but I already said no. The school is trying to push me into another meeting... I already did my homework and I know for a fact that it are still the same campleaders who are going with the kids, including the nudist guy.

So, I don't want to make my kid unhappy, but I also don't want her near that guy. I could try again to convince the school that the guy can't go when my daughter goes, I can go public and destroy both the schools' and this mans reputation (I still have all the letters that where written back and forward 4 years ago so I can prove every worth of it...) but I'm not sure it's worth it or if it's even the right thing to do.

Am I overreacting here? Would you let your kid go to that camp?

Hon, I have a daughter the same age as you, and most certainly if I were you,I would not be sending her to anywhere in the company of someone who made me uncomfortable.
Why on earth is this person still even allowed to go?
Even having questionable morals like that would immediately shoot red flags up as not only a parent, but a teacher.
I'm flabbergasted.
Gypsy, better to be safe than sorry. This man may just have not gotten caught acting inappropriately yet. If there is already a past instance with you, than your daughter is already a target that he might feel the need to win back "trust".
I'm a paranoid, distrustful person at the best of times...
Your daughter will get over missing the camp trip. She won't get over it if she's put in an uncomfortable situation with an adult male.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
Your daughter will get over missing the camp trip. She won't get over it if she's put in an uncomfortable situation with an adult male.

Yes, your right.
Either she goes to camp, or the nudist goes, but not both of them at the same time, that's for sure.

Part of me wants to forget about the whole thing, keep her home and never mention it again. That's what my husband wants to do aswell.
And another part of me wants to fight for my kids right to go to that camp without a possible 'instable' campleader.

I don't know if this guy ever did something wrong with those kids, but in my opinion he is a possible threat.

reply to post by GypsK


Sometimes it's best to fight the battles closer to home.
I wish I could tell you to go forward and fight for the rights of all, but most important is protecting your daughter FIRST.
Openly fighting , I'm not sure how that would go.
Obviously he has gained the trust of the school, somehow...and it might make things worse for your daughter.

yeah I know, I know...
I'm just ranting it out of my system

Originally posted by GypsK

Originally posted by AccessDenied
Your daughter will get over missing the camp trip. She won't get over it if she's put in an uncomfortable situation with an adult male.

And another part of me wants to fight for my kids right to go to that camp without a possible 'instable' campleader.

I don't know if this guy ever did something wrong with those kids, but in my opinion he is a possible threat.

I'd say he's a probable threat going by what he's said. If he says to you "I could get you wet in two seconds" thats him trying to dominate you sexually.. (possible rapist imo) then he brags about not getting erections? that suggests he has real issues over controlling his own sexual impulses.. and he says the kids sit on his lap? wtf? The school didn't let him go to camp one year.. if they are now they've taken that risk and would have known the possible repecussions so it's on them. If he's admitted saying this to you and having kids on his lap to the school and they didn't fire him just-in-case it's their problem. Don't feel guilty.. otherwise he's going to have someone else's daughter on his lap maybe talking to them about how he could make them wet in 2 seconds. If he's not going to respect adult women he's not going to respect pubescent ones.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by riley]

reply to post by GypsK

So, I don't want to make my kid unhappy, but I also don't want her near that guy.

Am I overreacting here? Would you let your kid go to that camp?

Absolutely not on both accounts. You are not overreacting and there is no way I'd let my child go.

When it comes to being a parent, go with your instinct. Never let anyone make you feel uncomfortable and don't feel like the bad guy because you're putting your foot down. Also, do not let the school pressure you into what you do with your child. They only have the authority we allow them to have.

If this guy is still there and the school backed down after telling you they would pull him from the program, I'd make a big stink about it. For some reason it's ingrained in our brain to be so nice and polite and to not want to cause any turmoil. But for him to have said those things to you, really shows issues on his part.

You can't be too cautious. I'd raise some hell. And whatever you do, do not feel guilty for not allowing your child to go to the camp.

Originally posted by riley
The school didn't let him go to camp one year.. if they are now they've taken that risk and would have known the possible repecussions so it's on them. If he's admitted saying this to you and having kids on his lap to the school and they didn't fire him just-in-case it's their problem.

No, They desided he couldn't go, only that one year when my niece was going to camp, but the school changed their mind and let him go anyway. That's why my niece stayed home.
So this guy is been a camp leader for the last 10, maybe 12 years.
And yes he admitted saying that, but in his opinion, it was a "misunderstanding"... ahem..

Originally posted by AshleyD

If this guy is still there and the school backed down after telling you they would pull him from the program, I'd make a big stink about it. For some reason it's ingrained in our brain to be so nice and polite and to not want to cause any turmoil. But for him to have said those things to you, really shows issues on his part.

You can't be too cautious. I'd raise some hell. And whatever you do, do not feel guilty for not allowing your child to go to the camp.

Let's not forget that this incident happened 4 years ago and back then it wasn't my kid who was going, it was my aunts kid. If hell was going to be raised I should have done it then but I didn't think 4 years into the future back then.
So now the school says we can at least talk about it. But I know this guy is in politics and the school is playing nice nice with him. They won't do anything that brings him into discredit.

btw, the guys is not a teacher at the school or anything, it's an independent organisation they work with.

Besides, even if he is staying home and my kid goes to camp, she will still have to deal with all the other camp leaders who know what happened, what if they take it out on her?
Nah, the more I think about it, the more she is staying home with me.... I'll take her to Disneyland instead (or something less expensive)

I really think that perhaps you shoud contact this independent organisation. If they think they're going to be dragged through the mud too they might dump him.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by GypsK
This guys started telling me that he was a humanist, a naturist and a nudist. Ok, 'that's fine' I said, you do whatever you want in your free time. (I'm not one to judge people on this). He talked about how he was chairman of the humanist organization... Next he continues about nudism, what it is and how he learned that sexuality is only in the mind.
I told him that I was not comfortable with the way this conversation was going, but he continued:
(these are his exact words) "you my lady, how pretty you are standing here in front of me, but even if you where naked you couldn't give me an erection if you wanted to. I on the other hand, could make you wet in seconds, because you haven't learned to control the sexuality in your mind". He went on and on like that.

He sounds to me like he's quite hung up on the subject of sexuality - if he wasn't he wouldn't feel the need to go on and on about it.

I think you're making the right choice.

By the way, I was interested to hear that they still have some form of religious studies in some schools and it's nice that they cater for the non-religious as well.

thanks

Yes I think they still give those classes all over Europe, although where I live I most of it is tradition.

Go with your gut girl..

Especially when it comes to children, a parents gut feeling can be quite accurate.

Maybe you are wrong, but if you have doubts, any doubts at all about something your child is getting into, it is much better to be safe than sorry.

Would you rather your daughter "hate" you for not allowing her to go, or "hate" you for allowing her, and possibly screwing up her mind, or even worse, her sexuality.

A parents instincts can be wrong, especially when it comes to your kid's, but more often than not, there is a reason for these "bad" feelings.

That's quite a bold proposal. I think if I were you, I would've just thrown the coffee on him and just said "Oh yeah? Looks like I made you wet in under a second, big-boy".

Regardless, even as your typical, sexually deprived late teen, I know that saying something like that would be totally inappropriate to say to a woman. Even if they were the most promiscuous one.

You'd definitely be doing the right thing by keeping any children away from a pervert like that. Not all nudists are bad, but some can be downright creepy. Like "I'm-gonna-stand-naked-in-front-of-girls-on-webcam-with-a-flower-pot-covering-my-junk" creepy.

Thinking about it makes me want to shower. Yeesh.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Whine Flu]

Another parent teacher meeting next thursday... my daughter said they want to talk to me about going to camp.
I'll go, I need to talk my her teacher anyway...
but think I'm gonna be "armed and dangerous" this time

In my opinion you are not overreacting one little bit.

To put it simply F that H no!

He said you were over dressed? That's something you think about when your talking to a pretty woman, you don't SAY it!

NO NO NO NO NO I would not let my kid go to camp anywhere NEAR that guy!

Gypsy...I am a guy (not a father nor will I ever be one) who believes in letting kids mess up once in a while. I have overprotective people because much like our immune system if you never let some bad in then you will never learn to deal with it...

Now then...that beind said you are clearly making a good decision here. I could use my psychobabble all day but it's already been summed up. He is an overly-dominated personality and a potential threat. Maybe he has never done anything...always possible...but what happens that one day when he loses grip on reality and dominance takes over...who is gonna be his target? Mean Joe Green who is 6'6, 250 pounds with sledgehammers for fists? No...it's gonna be that poor kid

Now bear in mind I am not guaranteeing this to happen...but I can't imagine it if it did

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


It's still the discusion of the week here between me and my daughter, I already told her she is not going to that camp, she can go to any other camp of her choice, but not that one. So taking aside the pouting and food stamping pre-teen, the decision is made.

btw, the school is not adressing the subject and I think I'll leave it with that.

thanks for the reply