Time to talk about it. My experience in the Army.

Don't believe it for one minute. The US army is built on the back of uneducated Christian fundamentalists. The idea that you'd be targetted for your religious beliefs is nothing short of ridiculous.

If this sort of thing was a reality you'd lose 95% of the American military over night.

Good story but I can't help but think you were put in a mental hospital with good reason.

Originally posted by poling2482
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Both friends were Marines and both went over there when the war started. Brandon came back after a year and never went back to the Marines. I asked him about being awol and he said after what happened over there he was never going back to the Marines. I worried about him being arrested for a while until my Paul came back. He said that Brandons squad got in a fire fight and thats all he knew but he also said the Marines told him that he was discharged and didnt have to finish his time! Paul told me the worst thing he witnessed was a Marine sgt shooting a little girl in the streets who didnt pose any threat. He also said they would go around killing all the stray dogs just for fun. He also told me that any iraqies they arrested they would beat. He told me that he would take his rifle and break there jaws with the butt of the weapon. You can tell he regrets it and it hurts him to talk about it.

I discussed your comment here with my husband, who is a soldier, and was in Iraq fairly recently. From what he's told me, a shooting of a civilian should never occur unless there is a real threat. Such a threat can come from a child, though. If anyone is approaching too close to a position, they could be shot. Another thing to keep in mind is that any shot is to be accounted for, and any shooting of a person, animal, or property must be reported as well. On the issue of strays, he did state that some are killed for reasons of sanitation (or to be humane), but none should be shot "for fun". Of course, with tens of thousands of troops, you can get an occasional bad apple. However, such things would not be condoned by the military. As for hitting someone with a rifle butt, that would depend on the circumstances, and there could be good reason for such a thing. I am not saying that no one ever did anything they should not have, only that it isn't the norm, and any bad behavior would be investigated and dealt with. Also, such things are not the norm for most soldiers going to Iraq, or anywhere else for that matter.

I believe you- very very sad

What a regret to have to live with.

I know it's a generalisation but every guy I've ever met that has been in the army has been a weirdo- the army is the perfect place for nutjobs who have a preoccupation with violence- they are welcomed with open arms.

That's not a generalization; that's a plain outright insult. Gee, thanks a ton for calling me, my husband, and all our friends "weirdos" and "nutjobs". Maybe what's off kilter here is your perceptions, or maybe your honesty?

Originally posted by UMayBRite!
Looking at this story from my perspective(which is actually sympathetic),
there are some things that don't add up. Either this guy completely
downplayed the degree to which he "lived" his religion or he's a liar.
Sometimes people become liars because of a completely distorted view
of reality, something that is not uncommon among Evangelicals and
Charismatics(Atheist too!).

From the standpoint of normal reality, Schizophrenics are liars.

I see Several possibilities:

1. Munschausen's Syndrome, ie, he likes to tell tall tales.
2. He was really as they say down under, a Complete Bible Basher,
causing his Captain to question not only his sanity, but the threat he
posed to the cohesiveness of the unit. At best the OP has to have
downplayed the degree with which he displayed his religion.

3. That he would be sent up based on one answer, supports #1. If the rest
of what he's telling us is true, there had to be a lot more to base his
Officer's decisions on than that one answer. It is possible that the only
question dealing with religion was the "punch me" question.

4. In his defense, it may have been while things were winding down in
Kosovo, there may have been extra space, so he may have had
effectively his own room. The other possibility is that he may have
been enough "on the edge" that he was given NCO quarters. No one
wanted to bunk with him.
5. The mostly likely explanation, if #1 isn't the case, is that after the
humiliation of being sent to a Psych ward, he kept quiet for 8 years.
His captain made up the story about "on leave" to protect him. Captain
was atheist, and not sympathetic, but also professional. Over the
years, OP tended to forget other explanations and remember the
religious persecution aspects. Finally he feels good enough to go public.
6. He hasn't told us much about his beliefs other than that he considers
himself to be pretty mainstrean. If there were quite a bit about it in his
evaluation, it is likely that the Psych ward would have talked to him
about it. Otherwise, they wouldn't have brought it up unless he did.
Psych people in Germany would likely be pretty secular and would
consider a religious case out of the ordinary. IMHO, if they questioned
his religion, it is likely that it was as much curiosity as attempting to
dissuade him.
...
...

I see flaws here as well, but also some with your line of reasoning.

1. Munschausen's Syndrome isn't telling lies; it's hurting one's self to get attention, or, by proxy, hurting a loved one, usually a child, for the same reason.
2. Being a "Bible basher" would not be a reason to send a soldier to a psych ward. At worst, it would be a reprimand for pushing religion too hard on other soldiers, unwanted. There is no prohibition, though, against telling people what you believe in the course of a conversation. remember, he stated that the Captain asked HIM first.
3. Your comment that " Sometimes people become liars because of a completely distorted view of reality, something that is not uncommon among Evangelicals and Charismatics(Atheist too!)" is rather biased. It's pretty intolerant to say that people with different beliefs have a distorted view of reality.

Other than that, yeah, there are a lot of holes in this. I lived in Bamberg, and know of ONE hospital, not three, and the closest mental hospital I know of is hours south of there. Plus, the German hospitals are not going to lock someone up for a month, simply because of mainstream religious beliefs. I suspect that there is either a LOT left unsaid here, and a lot misrepresented, or that this is all a flat out lie, designed to make the military look bad. Looking at some of the responses, that part, sadly, worked. I know the military; I was in myself back in the day, and am married to a soldier (coming up on 20 years in), who is quite sane and rational. This story smells, for a lot of reasons.

Originally posted by Chris2pher
This story is completely made-up. I was in the military and there are several levels of bureaucracy that would be in the way of this actually happening. Besides, there are major military hospitals that would have been used not German ones. Thanks Why post lies? And if you do post them at least make them more interesting.

On the issue of him going to a German hospital, that is one thing that is possible. Bamberg doesn't have a military hospital, only a clinic, and people would often go to the German Klinikum (sp?)for treatment. However, let me add that there is ONE German hospital there that I know of, not three, and I don't know of any mental hospital anywhere close to there. Lived there three years. I agree this reeks of BS, though.

hi,
First of all, I believe your Story and
after reading your story i believe i must share this similar story,
which happened last year to a friend of mine.
As stated a friend of mine had something very similar happen to him.
To say it right away -> I live in berlin, germany, and his story also happened here in germany (creepy)

Now. I attended a german/american school called John F Kennedy school berlin.
There i became friends with a kid, who I found out later was the son of my father's captain while he was in the army.
This friend of mine joined the german air force two years back.
And it already started gettin eerie here... the air force allowed him to skip basic training, and put him in the position of a 1st Sergant right away. About a half a year later he was allowed to visit me, and I gotta tell you....he really changed. He told me that whatever he was in charge of doin really messed with his entire world perspective.
As far as he said he was with a Anti-terror unit, who's occupation was tracking down sleepers here in Deu.
He had gathered enormous inside knowledge in this subject, and shared with me what he was allowed to.
On his last day visiting he told me quote: "Germany is more than it seems, there are entire towns in northgermany which are cloaked ballistic-silos"and similar.
Anyway how, the next day his mother called my house to inform me that he was put into a mental hospital by the german air force.
Recently i heard he was released, but have not heard from him since. Only once he called for a minute talking delirious, and telling me that he blacked out and doesnt know what happened.......

[edit on 13/10/2009 by Pakd-on-mystery]

Originally posted by poling2482
I just got home and I havnt got a chance to read all the post but I read the first couple of pages. I know im not the best speller, thanks for pointing that out. Yes I did wait this long becaue I was ashamed at first, I felt like I did something wrong. The captains name is Eric Schwartz and im sure he is a little higher up by now. I dont know the name of the German hospital, I just know its about a 3 hour ride or so from Bamberg. Im not making this up. I couldnt beleive they got away with it either. Even when I called Senator Sessions and the captain came and asked me about it he made it clear that if I were to pursue it then it would only cause trouble for myself. And to the poster that had something to say about the barracks. They were old ww2 barracks and yes I had my own room there. I started off as a 63-w but like I said it didnt take long for our current captain to realize I was a little to smart to be a grease junkie. I was moved into the captains building and did her QTB reports. When captain Schwartz arrived she even told him I was the best QTB soldier around. I dont know what captain Schwartz had against me. My renlistment code is E3. I would be happy to answer any questions. Ill even look around and see if i can find more documents about the hospital. But beleive me when I say its all true. Im not here to become famous or make friends I just wanted to tell some people outside my world here in Daphne, AL.

Well, at least you know how far away the closest German mental hospital is. However, you also stated that they took you to three different German hospitals before that one. Care to share the locations of those? Only the one in Bamberg. Plus, while they might have taken you to the Klinikum overnight for some situations, they would have transferred you to Wurzberg after that, not a German hospital. I know that area; I lived there. What part of post were your barracks on? Why three German hospitals, and where were they? Why no visit to JAG over such a thing? Why would the guy do this to you for being Christian, when so many in the military are Christian, and quite open about it? Way too many holes in this. I would like to be sympathetic, but I simply can't buy this, sorry.

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


From reading this, I would say there is good reason your friend was put in a mental hospital. Come on, skip training, and instant First SGT? Give me a break here.

The OP clearly has an agenda. It seems to present the US millitary in a bad light. IF any of the story was true, a lawsuit could be filed and settled out of court in a matter of months with a huge payday. Since the OP seems to be avoiding direct questions, I think it's clear what is going on.

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


the guy you are talking about probably was sent to the 4th floor in the first few days of basic. he invented the story so as not to let you know how crazy he was. Basic training has a profound reason for being there. You can't skip it. Your buddy is nucking futs.

If all you can come up with was that I put a dash in 63w then wow. This happened between the age of 17-21. I started off in basic at Fort Jackson, SC. Then went to AIT at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. I have a pic of my own room in Germany if thats so hard to beleive. It wasnt that packed when I got there and a few soldiers had thier own room. The soldier that was on guard at the time was Veronica Hernandez. She was an e4 at the time and I heard that she is back in the states now. What they did was wrong. Anytime you do something in the middle of the night it should be a sign. Why wait that late to come get me? Beacuse none of the soldiers would see. The sgts name was Reed. I dont remember his first name. There was also a sgt. Graves. It seem that all everyone is trying to do is prove me wrong. Im not lying about anything. I just wanted to let everyone know what happened.

Here's why I have trouble with your story:

I arrived in Germany and was there about 2 weeks and then left for Kosovo for a few months.

You make no mention of returning to Germany and assume that the story you're telling takes place while you are serving in Kosovo, correct?

You then state this:

They handcuffed me and took me to a white van and put me in the back. About 15 min later my sgt tossed me a bag with some clothes in it. I didnt reconize the driver of the van. The first three stops were all German hospitals. At each one they took blood from the same arm. After the third one my arm turned a nasty yellow and black color. Around 5 am we arrived at a German mental hospital.

And this is after you were awakened at midnight. So, assuming you left somewhere between 12:30a.m. and 12:45a.m., that gives approx. 4-1/2 to 4-1/4 hours to drive from Kosovo to Germany, making 3 stops along the way to have blood drawn.

Not knowing where you were in Kosovo, I figured distance based on Pristina. The distance between Pristina and Bamberg is 700 miles or 1126 kilometers. At an average speed of 90 kmh, it would take approximately 12 hours to drive to Bamberg.

THERE IS NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE TRAVELED BY VAN FROM KOSOVO TO ANY PLACE IN GERMANY WITHIN THAT TIME SPAN.

I'm sorry that you are having delusions, but your story could not have happened the way you have presented it.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by Freenrgy2]

why would god want you to shoot someone ?
(jesus gave people time to repent, not kill them before they could repent,
and what is repenting ? it is opposite of ignorance, it is seeing something)

he is god, he is one, he is free.

It was a test of him to see how (blind?) you think.

People think logic and god cannot be one thing,
but it is, and in logic truth is free as one,
as being god.

That was written in scripture, but hidden,
because how do you explain a paradox (imagine life
as an '8' and explain that in a 'book' thousands of years
back, when the eight was still far from full and had to be grown further,
this life is both in relgion as logic, which is one as truth, a paradox)

So he asks to you, if your imagination tells you without logic,
if your god asks you without being truth (which is logic)
ask you to kill, would you...

and people would... because they are afraid to question
god, when he wants to be questioned, because that is love
as opposite to self-love.

Going to the casino and picking randomly a choice,
is testing god.
Talking to life, demanding logic, asking questions,
that is love for what you want to see, that
is not testing god, as religion misunderstands.

Your boss is also human, and humans react strange,
but there is a lesson in what happened.



[edit on 13-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by network dude


Never dude,
my friend has the statue and the attitude of a pro football player, and he comes from a millitary family. Trust me he's not crazy and never has been. I've known him for over ten years.

I am looking for pictures from basic to confirm this but I believe I may have been at basic the same time this guy was. I am pretty confident for a few reasons:

1. He was the same guy that told everyone how he would kick the drill sgt's @ss after the 2nd day
2. Cried himself to sleep each night
3. First one in the showers, last one out
4. Asked the cook for extra's

Nah, I'm just screwing around. No idea who the OP is except a future fiction writer trying his material out here. Sorry to have a little fun but after reading several pages on here, I thought it was time to lighten it up a little.

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
why would god want you to shoot someone ?
(jesus gave people time to repent, not kill them before they could repent,
and what is repenting ? it is opposite of ignorance, it is seeing something)

he is god, he is one, he is free.

It was a test of him to see how (blind?) you think.

People think logic and god cannot be one thing,
but it is, and in logic truth is free as one,
as being god.

That was written in scripture, but hidden,
because how do you explain a paradox (imagine life
as an '8' and explain that in a 'book' thousands of years
back, when the eight was still far from full and had to be grown further,
this life is both in relgion as logic, which is one as truth, a paradox)

So he asks to you, if your imagination tells you without logic,
if your god asks you without being truth (which is logic)
ask you to kill, would you...

and people would... because they are afraid to question
god, when he wants to be questioned, because that is love
as opposite to self-love.

Going to the casino and picking randomly a choice,
is testing god.
Talking to life, demanding logic, asking questions,
that is love for what you want to see, that
is not testing god, as religion misunderstands.

Your boss is also human, and humans react strange,
but there is a lesson in what happened.



[edit on 13-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

Not to be overally picky, but you should show some respect by capitalizing God instead of the way you have it written. Just saying.

I wasnt in Kosovo when all this happened. I arrived in Germany around September I think and was there 2 weeks before going to Kosovo for a few months. I came back to Germany where I was stationed and was there when all this took place. Everything was fine and going great until that new captain came. I have given you names to look up and I dont know what else I can do to prove this.

reply to post by poling2482


Fine.

But your OP doesn't state this fact.

well i dont know much about the us military or if this story is true. but after reading ur story the ONE thing that popped in my mind was when you were talking about ur 2 friends. You said.. " my Jon" wtf is that? just a typo or are you gay? doesnt really matter to me.. but if anyone got wind of that.. esp as you say a NEW cpt. so please re read ur story and then correct or clarify things. Also why were they taking blood samples? like i said.. maybe the new guy had a gay phobia and was trying to find a way to get you out of his platoon. if everyone but the Dr at the hospital spoke german.. then did you understand them?
For those that think your story is total BS.. sorry for you. What you know and percieve to be true about the US army is the same as what we comment and see on this website. all smoke and mirrors. You only know what they want you to know.. and when stories like this come along you believe to question it cant be possible.
a bit off topic, but still a question to the military and ex military that have posted. When martial law is incorporated, which side will you stand on?

reply to post by poling2482


You continue to claim this is true. Are you independently wealthy? Retired and living in the islands now? Can't decide weather to drive the lambo or the Ferrari? If not, and your story is true, you have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Your whereabouts had to be accounted for. What my problem is with this whole thing is that if by some slim chance you are telling the truth, then you can bet your ass you weren't the only one this has or will happen to. And you have a duty to fix this. If you just post the story on a conspiracy web site, who have you helped? Nobody but you. If you are a selfish person, then I guess you will have to deal with yourself.

As a Christian, and as a human, this was all wrong. Think about that oath you took at the meps station. All enemys, foreign and domestic. And it doesn't go away because you have a DD214.