Ask an initiate and member of secret societies

reply to post by dunwichwitch


explain how!?...

reply to post by Fantazams


Jesus Christ himself....

reply to post by dunwichwitch


i don't get it... are you Mormon? Are you saying Jesus Christ and Lucifer are brothers? Please verify brother...

reply to post by Fantazams


not to take too much away from this thread... but since you asked, nah I am not Mormon... but in a way that is correct.

Lucifer is by definition not dark, not light, but grey.... lucifer bears the light.... forever swaying between light and darkness.... sometimes in denial of his Father, sometimes in Defence of his father.... perhaps he sereves His Father's purpose regardless of where He stands. Lucifer is embodied in Jesus Christ... and Jesus Christ fights his own Demons in the Desert.... because Jesus Christ was not pure of mind. He was a man with urges to kill, urges to breed, urges to do wrong.... and only until he understood his demons, could he exorcise them. Jesus Christ thus became master of Darkness before he could ever dream to become Master of the Light. Because in truth, the darkness is easier on the eyes than the light, and we all run from the Light at first. The true masters are the ones who can "bear the light". Therefore choose your Master, and Lucifer is embodied within that person.

Christ was not the first, nor will he be the last....

It's a neverending cycle. One might even be so bold as to say that Jesus deserved to die. He brought with him the burden of the Light to his followers... thus doing what he was put here to do, but at the same time... causing a whole new wave of untold suffering, of which you could say was the outward unfolding of an inward struggle inherited by man upon Christ's death...

What can you tell me about 432? From what I can tell by my own research is that its a ratio used to determine spatial and time distances\cycles.. and of course leads back to the infamous "9".

Ok so with all that said I have to go back to your original post...
A Christian who misunderstands Lucifer.... ?... How is this Ironic when everything you have just described is not of the Bible therefore not a christian belief... you follow?... Thats like me saying... A Jew who does not understand God? How Ironic... Than going on to describe God in a way that is my personal belief and stating this as a fact.... Your entitled to believe what ever you believe... but when you bring up your belief like it is a known fact ...well that is just narrow minded and ignorant.... hey but everyone is entitled to their own opinion... even if it is wrong...

by the way that last comment is just a little sarcastic joke just so you know



[edit on 2-11-2009 by Fantazams]

Originally posted by Fantazams
Ok so with all that said I have to go back to your original post...
A Christian who misunderstands Lucifer.... ?... How is this Ironic when everything you have just described is not of the Bible therefore not a christian belief... you follow?...

And where in your Bible does it say Lucifer and Satan are the same? In fact, where in your Bible does it say Lucifer was a fallen angel at all? He's only mentioned by name once in Isaiah, and most Biblical scholars take that particular instance to refer to a fallen king of Babylon, if I recall correctly.

The whole notion of Lucifer as Satan is the pulp fiction of Milton and Dante. When did your church start preaching their word?

Edit to add references:
www.apologeticspress.org...
newprotestants.com...
raptureready.com...
rickbeckman.org...
www.lds-mormon.com...
etc...

[edit on 11/3/2009 by JoshNorton]

reply to post by JoshNorton


OK FiIIIIIIIINNE... I guess it really is ingrained in me that Satan = Lucifer .... I admit I was wrong... I still believe everything that these so called aliens ARE fallen angels... "Satan's" Fallen angels not lucifers.... they are inetrdimensional beings that when they reveal themselves to the world and state they have created us and that all religion was misinterpreted and they are our Gods.... thus creating the last and final great falling away / deception....

LVX Maggador, your attempt to enlighten people to the truth through the secrets you possess comes from a noble place indeed!

However merely stating the secrets is not, and never will be, enough. Your Order could publish every piece of material all of its members have ever produced and it would do little to help your average citizen in his or her life.

A person needs to reach a critical point where they are willing to sacrifice quite a lot in the name of self discovery before they are ready to even begin upon the path of Initiation, let alone find any degree of measurable success in doing so.

Of the 12 Grail Knights, only two, Parsifal and Sir Gawain, see it and are enlightened by it.

dunwichwitch:

To your rather long post, I will be short myself in my answer. We are all our own masters, indeed, and we all hold our own Truth within our own being. What we need to explore is our inner self, not externally, and as you touch upon there is no need for elaborate rituals, ceremonies, spells and such, all the power is in the Mind itself in any case.

All these rituals and spells, symbols and so on, only serves the purpose of guiding the Mind towards the wanted Goal, and as a way to live into the experience, or the act of the Magick, by physically doing specific things that will make it seem more "real" because of the simple reason humans are used to having to do something to achieve something - they are not used to use only Mind alone.

So, indeed, there is no one to follow, no system or path that will truly ever set you free, only you yourself can do that by observing and experiencing your own being, seeing your own truth, and following your own intuition and insights. By such self-experimentation, one should be able to figure out to some degree "what works" and "what does not work", and "what brings good" and "what brings bad" etc, so one can be on ones own Good Path, and in Harmony with oneself - and others, and continously expand ones consciousness, awareness and understanding through contineous experiences and observations along the way.

Fantazams:

I would say Humans are the Fallen Angels. Simply because once we were indeed what can be called Angels, Spirits, free having no physical form, but then we descended into the physical universe and trapped ourselves in physical bodies and got onto the path of reincarnation serving the masters as slaves - without even know who those masters are or that we are serving them at all, or for what purpose.

ETs/Aliens exists throughout the universe, if any great revelation will come about their existence officially for the public any time soon is not something I know - I do know there are plans for such, but the future is not set, and there are many different forces working for different goals. Also, a disclosure by the governments on alien contact and involvement may not necessarily be a good thing, or even what it seem like at all.

Regarding 2012, it is coming and we will all experience it - at least the ones of us whom live by that time. Then we will truly see what will happen, making prophecies are very difficult because of the fluid reality of existence, the future is as said not set, and always subject to change depending on which forces are affecting it in which directions. Troublesome times do seem to be coming at the moment, and in many ways are already here, and I do think there will be more trouble towards 2012 around the world, and my best advice would be to observe what happens during the next year or two year, and then decide what to do. Within 2 years it should be clear what will happen by 2012 as then the events deciding how 2012 will unfold have already been set in place and been revealed to such a degree that people will know. Then you can see if there is a need to relocate , hide, escape, and such. If that will be the option, I suggest finding a desolate area with little or no other people, where you bring only a small group of your own people, friends, family etc, and start a small self-sufficient community. Get yourself some books on survival and wildlife, medicinal herbs and plants, and other useful subjects. Study these so you are prepared to face the worst case scenario. If nothing happens, at least you learned something new and useful.

What is clear though is that 2012 will mark a significant event in existence, and from seeing further into the future, the world will apparently be less populated with people living more in small communities scattered around.

Regardless, be not afraid of death, embrace it and prepare, involve yourself with spiritual development and experience your true being and you will no longer have any reason to fear death as you will know that you will live on in either case, and go to more beautiful places than this, and have no more worries of getting food or money and other earthly concerns. But you need to be prepared to properly go through the transision, studying and experimenting with astral projection and soul travel seem to be the most useful of all practices in those regards as you will learn to navigate the after life and explore and be familiar with what awaits.

Regarding the "helping hands" i warned about, I am referring to help offered by governments. They have far other agendas than helping anyone than themselves, so do not blindly believe anything they will tell you, and do not simply accept any "help" they will offer. The ongoing vaccination program is one of these "helping hands" I warn about - do not accept that hand on your shoulder.

To those discussing Lucifer, Satan, Jesus etc: Lucifer and Satan are not the same, and the truth about them may have been obscured through those whom have edited and put together the biblical texts where they are mentioned. Jesus was not a man any more special than anyone else, the only difference was that he had gained self-realization and through long times of practical spiritual exercises and meditations etc he had developed his being towards its true self in such a way that he could more properly understand himself, others, existence, his abilities, the laws that governs us, and so on. There were others like him, at the same time, and also before and after him. He was not a Son of God any more than anyone else, and what he was teaching was the way how to achieve what he himself had achieved, which basically is what any Guru or Spiritual Master do.

Seventhdoor:

Saying that publishing all the material of my Order would not be of help to the average citizen is rather ignorant. The whole reason such Orders exist is to assist and help such average citizens, and guide them on their way to self-realization, and has been done and is being done with great results and millions of people around the world have benefited through such assistance and improved their lives and gained greater understanding of their existence and how to live to gain better goods of life.

Indeed, the "average joe" contacts me all the time to thank me for having helped him improve his life for the better, so I know the work of myself and those like me is useful and appreciated by many people around the whole world. Blessings

-Maggador

My point was referring to the actual occult material, not practical wisdom, advice about life, or opinions on existence and religion which you are giving to people here. I have no doubt that those things can help people, however since the reference was to secrets, I was referring to things you would likely never publish to the public. One must then ask, for why do secret societies not publish these things?

We have only to look at the Golden Dawn and OTO for our answers. Between the two of them, virtually every practitioner of High Magick has been in one or both of these Orders. Yet the Golden Dawn is degenerate and at war with itself, and the OTO has corrupted its own sacred teachings. Why do you think Crowley had so many veils, was so cautious? Despite publishing so much, he KNEW those teachings could be corrupted in extremely vile ways, and they have been. Between them, they have become little more than an open air mental ward, inviting upon themselves all kinds of madness.

The few who actually make Adepthood in these Orders seldom achieve the Supreme Ritual, by whatever name you want to call it. Of those who do, very few actually know what to do with it. They become ranty, self centered, and get stuck. They never reach beyond into the higher grades of Mastery- many of them sadly do not even believe such grades are real or exist!

So when I speak of secrets, and that you could give them all away and they would do no good, I would point to that as an example for why. What you give to people here, and what all Initiates give to people whenever and wherever they can, is guidance. Yet such things are no secret, and the things which are secret are going to be incomprehensible to the laymen.

Thus, you could publish all your secrets and it would do little good for your average person on the street. The means through which you reach a place where you are capable of guiding others is in itself accessible in full only to those who are also on the path, is what I'm saying.

Yet I can agree to disagree with you on this point if it comes to that.

I agree with your clarification of your point-

There are corruption and perversion within most such Orders and Societies, and as you say there are even war against different fractions within the very same Orders. I know for a fact that several of the Orders I am member of, or have been member of, have been infiltrated by others with other agendas, whom have tried to change the structure and system, and in some cases succeeded with that, and thus altered and perverted the whole original foundation of those Orders and the teaching.

When it comes to the secret teachings, which are not generally available to the public nor released to just anyone, these are mostly secrets that would be useless to most people unless they already were advanced initiates and had enough knowledge and experience already, in fact many of these secret teachings could be harmful or dangerous to unexperienced people, which is one reason they are not simply published for anyone. This is also why we have different degrees of initiations in such orders, to step the path gently, and develop oneself in a proper manner and not go ahead too fast or start with too advanced material.

There is also another reason for the secrecy, and that is due to the power such knowledge can give - and all power can be abused, and it is being abused, and the world is corrupt because of such abuse. Most orders and societies carefully chose their members and only reveal as much as they feel the individual should know, if they detect any reason that a person should not be taught certain things, he will not gain access to those teachings. He may also be expelled from the order. Now, in modern days however, this has changed somewhat in many of the larger orders, and they freely accept almost anyone. It is quite easy to become a member of any Order or Society these days, and most of the teachings are also available to the public in one form or the other through other means as well, so there really are not much "secrets" anymore per se.

-Maggador

I enjoy your blog, its very interesting. Well met brother.

In LVX

Originally posted by djcloudy
What can you tell me about 432? From what I can tell by my own research is that its a ratio used to determine spatial and time distances\cycles.. and of course leads back to the infamous "9".

All 432 stuff is decoded in:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Everything was measured by the radius of the sun, being 432 x 1000 miles

666 is the length of a vesica, whose width is
384, or the sun’s radius (432 x 1000 miles) measured by the tone.
Page 67.
www.themasonictrowel.com...
432 and its mirror 234 = 666 = SUM (1..36)

384:432 = 8:9 Pythagoras starting ratio = 0.88888

Now adding all letters in Hebrew gives 1495.
1495 - 384 = 1111 See next link
user.cyberlink.ch...

Originally posted by SeventhdoorHowever merely stating the secrets is not, and never will be, enough. Your Order could publish every piece of material all of its members have ever produced and it would do little to help your average citizen in his or her life.

Precisely.....which is why ritual should nto be a forgotten method of teaching, and why you can put the truth in front of people on the web all day and they will fail to grasp it, and prefer to beleive that your "hiding" the truth....

Mathew 7. 6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

So far the past 5,000 years of history has shown in every culture in every era, this is true.

Thankyou Alex et al,

For,positively and spiritually,the most informative thread I have read via the internet to date.

Best Regards

Paul