Anyone watching the russians/chechnya?

Didnt the russians just have their leader of the chechen province blown to hell?

Didnt Putin say conflict was unavoidable there?

Europeans better become affraid, because the muslims are really pushing into europe and getting ready to light the usual tinder box of the balkins again.

I think Russia is going to joing the war on terror in a big way in chechnya, who will stop them?
not me in the USA,
because i see radicle muslim extremists in chechnya too.

Yeah, just saw a documentary on Chechnya the other night. Things look pretty horrible there. Soldiers killing pretty much everyone, young men "disappearing" elderly getting shot, children getting shot. And no media is allowed in as well.

Russia's drafting policy is a finger pointing towards any 16 year olds on the street that look healthy. I know a few who fled from Russia because the finger landed on them. Russia's current state of affairs would be more of a joke if they weren't sitting on the world's largest Strategic Weapons pile.

And if it weren't for the fact that Russia has learned in Chechnya why America doesn't just walk into hot zones. While they had their bums handed to them in Grozny in the early 1990s, Russia turned Grozny into a rubble pile early 2000s.

Also, no one is looking at them, with all the hallabaloo in Iraq all Russia has to say is, "You're not going to bother us about the muslim problem in Chechnya riiiiiiiight?"

Chechen conflict is a true reflection of Russia's dirty politics and hypocrisy of politicians of Europe and USA.

What we have in Chechenya is the purest form of genocide and it is still happening in the 21st century. Imagine, after destroying Chechen and its government, Russia declared that the war had ended- doing so the freedom fighters of Chetchen were labeled as terrorist and the slaughter began. Red Cross and other organisations can be held away from the country, because officially there is no war!

The number of acts against humanity commited by Russian soldiers is unbelievable in Chetchen, yet all the attention of the world is gathered around Iraq war and in Europe Russia is free to politically attack Baltic countries daily for mistreatment of so called minorities (russians brought in with occupation ). Actually no international organisation has found acts against minorities in the problematic Baltic countries and how can they- the only real problem is, that the russians brought in with the Soviet Union occupation just don't want to learn the local language and because of that they can't get the true citizenship.

Since Baltics are in the EU now, Russia addresses the accusations to EU and claims special rights (more money support, guaranteed free school education in russian, simplified citizenship tests- basically it would mean to pass the test without knowing the local language) for the russian people in Estonia and Latvia- it makes efforts to keep the ex-soviets from intergrating and hoping to use them as political instrument in the future- or achiving official language status for Russian in those countries, which is unacceptable for the ex-occupied nations. What is suprising that while EU does not agree with the accusations, it still starting to appease some of Russians claims and yet not much attention has been lead to the Russia's true crimes in Chechen and to the ones commited in the past against Baltics under the name of Soviet Union (occupation from WW2 to 1991, genocide, and so on).

Russia has not yet compensated anything to the the occupied Baltic countries and mistreated families, plus they are keeping some of the stolen assets in storages and are basically refusing to give them back. Here lies another problem- communism's and Soviet Union's crimes have not yet been comminated internationally.

Russia is still a great pain in the ass for its neighbours and much light has to be shed to its lies and crimes.

Note: English is not my fist language so don't judge me
for grammar mistakes.

Thanks for the interesting perspective RDK and welcome aboard.

Tut

It was my understanding that chechnya is a province of Russia, and muslim sepratists have been commiting terrorism there thru the 90's, resulting in a Russian crackdown...(not trying to support/deny alledged russian impropieties)

Im more watching to see when this area is going to flare up again
and would be inclined to support the Russians in quelling muslim extremist sepratists trying to carve out a piece or russia.

Originally posted by CazMedia
It was my understanding that chechnya is a province of Russia, and muslim sepratists have been commiting terrorism there thru the 90's, resulting in a Russian crackdown.

no, its a seperate country, suicide bombings and the same things seen in iraq on americans are going on all the time on russian soldiers in chechnia if im not mistaken.

SOURCE = www.infoplease.com/spot/chechnyatime1.html - 30k

CAPS USED FOR MY THOUGHTS,
1991
Soviet Union collapses, 14 regions become independent nations. Dzhokhar Dudayev elected president of Chechnya. Dudayev declares Chechnya independent. Russian President Boris Yeltsin refuses to recognize Chechen independence, sends troops. Confronted by armed Chechens, troops withdraw.
THIS SHOWS THAT CHECHNYA WAS A PART OF RUSSIA (SINCE ITS ASSIMILATION IN 1923)

1994
Chechnya continues to assert its independence. Paramilitary bands accused of widespread kidnapping for ransom. Russia invades Chechnya; bloody war ensues.
(RUSSIANS RE-ASSERT CONTROL OVER BREAKAWAY PROVINCE)

1995
10,000 Russian troops occupy Grozny. Dudayev killed by Russian rocket. Total Russian force numbers 45,000. Chechens takes hostages
(HOSTAGE TAKING, BEGINS TERROR CAMPAIGN)

1996
Chechens launch major counteroffensive, 5,000 troops invade Grozny. Unwilling to use maximum force and destroy Grozny to defeat rebels, Russians agree to ceasefire. Yeltsin orders troops withdrawn from Chechnya. Russian military humiliated. 70,000 casualties on all sides
(UNWILLING POLITICALLY TO DO WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE, PERCIEVED AS A VICTORY FOR THE REBELS....LESSON TO LEARN HERE... ON HOW NOT TO LOSE BECAUSE YOU GIVE UP WILL TO FIGHT!!)

1997
Chechnya won't accept Moscow's authority. Aslan Maskhadov elected Chechen president. Name of capital changed from the Russian Grozny, to the Chechen Djohar. Lawlessness in Chechnya continues.

1999
Terrorist bombs explode in Moscow and other Russian cities. Russian authorities blame Chechen paramilitary commanders. Chechen insurgents enter neighboring Russian territory of Dagestan to help Islamic fundamentalists seeking to create separate nation.
(ISLAMIC TERROR TRYING TO GAIN A NATION!!! WAKE UP DOVES!!!)
Russian troops recapture breakaway areas of Dagestan. Yeltsin sends nearly 100,000 Russian troops into Chechnya. Russians occupy much of Chechnya, pulverize Grozny, driving rebels into hills. 250,000 refugees.

2000
War continues. Russians are unable to defeat rebels in mountainous areas. United Nations officials call for investigations of alleged human rights abuses by Russian troops and by Chechen rebels. New Russian President Vladimir Putin agrees to human rights investigation, continues war.
(BOTH SIDES GET COUGHT FIGHTING "DIRTY" BUT ONE OF THEM (russia) STEPS UP AND ADMITS THINGS SHOULD BE DONE BETTER AND WORKS TWORDS THIS...SOUND FAMILIAR?)

2002
On Oct. 23, Chechen rebels seized a crowded Moscow theater and detained 763 people, including 3 Americans. Armed and wired with explosives, the rebels demanded that Russian government end the war in Chechnya. Government forces stormed the theater the next day, after releasing a gas into the theater, which killed not only all the rebels but more than 100 hostages.
(TERROR AGAINST RUSSIAN HOMELAND)

2003
In March Chechens voted in a referendum that approved a new regional constitution making Chechnya a separatist republic within Russia. Agreeing to the constitution meant abandoning claims for complete independence. While Moscow has presented the referendum as a way of bringing peace to the war-ravaged region, it is unclear how much power Russia would actually grant the separatist republic. A spate of Chechen suicide bombings followed throughout the year...During 2003, there were 11 bomb attacks against Russia believed to have been orchestrated by Chechen rebels.
(TERROR ESCALATES)

2004
On May 9, Chechnya's Moscow-backed leader, Akhmad Kadyrov, is killed in a bombing. Six others are killed and another 60 wounded.....A warlord, Shamil Basayev, claimed responsibility for the bombing.

MAY 10 2004
Vladimir Putin yesterday moved to fill the power vacuum left by Akhmad Kadyrov's death in Chechnya and vowed that "retribution" would be "unavoidable".
"There can be no doubt that retribution is unavoidable for those whom we are fighting today," he said.

SOUNDS LIKE ISLAMIC TERRORISTS HAVE HAD PLANS HERE FOR A WHILE, AND ARE TRYING TO MAKE GAINS WHILE THINGS SEEM CHAOTIC ENOUGH...TRYNG TO SPREAD THIS CONFLICT, AND RADICAL ISLAM.

The latest from the region,

BC-Russia-Attack Bjt 11thLd-Writethru 06-22 1040 BC-Russia-Attack, Bjt, 11th Ld-Writethru,1050
Assailants attack police headquarters, border guards' posts in Russian region adjacent to Chechnya
Eds: AMs. UPDATES with fireman's description of fighting, corpses in streets, CORRECTS source on dead prosecutors to ITAR-Tass sted Interfax in graf 18.
By YURI BAGROV
Associated Press Writer
CHERMEN, Russia (AP) -- Heavily armed militants launched overnight attacks against police buildings, border guard stations and other government offices in Ingushetia, a Russian region bordering Chechnya, killing at least 22 people including three high-ranking regional officials, officials said Tuesday.
The fighters seized the Interior Ministry in Nazran, the largest city in Ingushetia, and attacked the border guards' headquarters there as well as in two villages near the border with Chechnya shortly before midnight Monday, regional emergency officials said.
The Ingush medical center said early Tuesday that 59 wounded people had been hospitalized and 16 of them had died. The ITAR-Tass news agency, citing Ingush law enforcement officials, said five of the dead were policemen; the border guards' command said one of their soldiers had been killed and four wounded.
Witnesses reported at least six more people dead in an attack on a border guards' post on the outskirts of Nazran, and a firefighter who would reveal only his first name, Aslan, said he had seen more than 10 corpses on the streets of Nazran.
"There are a lot of casualties, both from the law enforcement side and among civilians," the Interfax news agency quoted Ingush President Murat Zyazikov as saying.
An official from the Ingush Interior Ministry said it was not immediately clear who the attackers were, but said some of them were shouting "Allahu akhbar" -- a frequent rallying cry of Chechnya's separatist rebels as their insurgency increasingly comes under the influence of radical Islam.
Ingush police estimated that up to 100 militants, armed with grenade and rocket-launchers, were involved in the assaults. The attacks sent the sounds of gunfire booming across Nazran and other settlements for most of the night.
"Wherever we were, there were armed people, some in uniform, some not, and you didn't know whose side they were on," Aslan said.
Thousands of Russian anti-terrorist special forces officers and servicemen headed into Nazran, through the border village of Chermen in neighboring North Ossetia, in a long column of armored personnel carriers and army trucks shortly after dawn Tuesday. Inside the city, firefighters fought blazes at the Interior Ministry and its weapons storehouse, as residents cowered in their homes.
Fighting from the nearly 5-year-old Chechen war -- the second war in a decade -- has occasionally spilled into Ingushetia, highlighting the Russian military's ineffectiveness against the rebels despite having heavier weapons and far superior manpower.
The last major incursion was in October 2002, when a band of fighters attacked Russian forces well inside the republic near the village of Galashki, killing 17 servicemen.
In an interview excerpted on Radio Liberty last week, Chechnya's separatist president Aslan Maskhadov said that rebels were preparing to undertake new offensives.
"We are planning to change tactics. Before, we concentrated our efforts on acts of sabotage, but soon we are planing to start active military actions," he said.
A three-man crew from Russia's NTV television came upon some of the presumed attackers, wearing masks and speaking accented Russian, at a border crossing as the crew tried to enter Nazran from North Ossetia.
"Out of the dark, a voice says 'Stop, put your hands on the hood,' said NTV correspondent Maxim Berezin. "A man carrying an automatic weapon came up. 'Who are you?' 'We're from NTV.' He took a few steps back, as if to shoot us.
"Then he said, 'Say that we are the Martyrs Brigade,' I don't remember of whom, Abu, Alyua, I don't remember what he said. 'We have shot everyone here. Go and announce that."'
Berezin saw the bodies of at least six men in camouflage -- the uniform of security service members -- lying outside a minivan. Nearby stood a police car, its windows shot out.
There was heavy fighting in Karabulak, where the militants attacked a border guard and customs post and a police station, and the assailants seized a police checkpoint in the village of Yandare, Ingush emergency officials said.
Acting Ingush Interior Minister Abukar Kostoyev was wounded in the first minutes of the fighting in Nazran and was taken to Vladikavkaz in North Ossetia, where he died, the Ingush Interior Ministry official said.
Ingush emergency officials said that the health minister and a deputy interior minister of Ingushetia had also been killed in the fighting in Nazran, while ITAR-Tass said Nazran city prosecutor Mukharbek Buzurtanov and Nazran district prosecutor Bilan Oziyev had died, as well.
Police at the Chermen checkpoint on the North Ossetian border said that a 10-vehicle Russian military convoy had been ambushed en route to Nazran, about 11/2 miles away. Three vehicles from the column were later seen returning to Vladikavkaz, the North Ossetian capital, carrying an unknown number of casualties.
As dawn broke Tuesday, there was still sporadic shooting in Nazran and Karabulak, but the fighters were stealing away. Alleged militants stole some Nazran residents' cars to make a getaway, and people were hiding in their houses, said a resident who identified himself only by his first name, Aslanbek.
Although Chechnya is a largely Muslim region in overwhelmingly Christian Russia, the first of Chechnya's two wars was an essentially secular conflict. However, after Russian troops pulled out when Chechen rebels fought them to a standstill, the separatists increasingly took on a specifically Islamic mantle.
The attacks in Ingushetia came as Russian and Moscow-backed Chechen officials prepared for an August election to replace Kremlin-backed Chechen President Akhmad Kadyrov, who was killed in a bomb attack last month. The Kremlin has put forward its candidate, Chechen Interior Minister Alu Alkhanov.
(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
APTV 06-22-04 0058EDT

I did say what now, weeks ago that this was something to watch....this will only become more intense in the near future i feel. This is a hot bed of muslim extreism at the doorstepp to the heart of Europe....anyone fear this spreading?

92 dead, 120 wounded in attack
June 23, 2004
AROUND 92 people have been killed and 120 wounded in a series of night attacks in the Russian republic of Ingushetia early this week, said local news agencies.
news.com.au...

I watched a doco' the other night about Chechnya and was shocked.
I knew it was going to be bad, but not THAT bad.
It really p*****d me off. Reminded me of a frozen hell
Sanc'.

Chechnya looks like it's always been pre-dominately muslim. What happens when you infiltrate pre-dominately muslim countries? Well, so far, you see massive human rights violations from both sides (morals tend to sink to the lowest levels of both sides, in a tic for tat effort). You also see straight up terrorism.

from: www.globalissues.org...

Recognized as a distinct people since the 17th century, Chechens were active opponents of the Russian conquest of the Caucasus during the period 1818-1917. In 1858 Russia defeated leader Imam Shamil and his fighters who were aiming to establish an Islamic state. After the 1917 Russian Revolution, a declaration of independence by the Chechens was met with occupation from the Bolsheviks who later established the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Region in 1924. In the mid-1930s, it became an autonomous republic. Like their Ingush neighbors, Chechens are predominantly Sunni Muslim. As well as different cultural and religious beliefs, as for any group of people throughout history subdued by external rule or empire, external rule first by the brutal Russian Czarist empire and then by the Soviets, was unpopular and tenuous.

Further...
Last Update: Wednesday, June 23, 2004. 11:00pm (AEST)
Russia accused of Chechen human rights abuse
Human rights organisation Amnesty International has accused Russia of failing in its human rights obligations in Chechnya and Ingushetia.
www.abc.net.au...
Sanc'.

Didnt i say this was comming how many months ago?

First two hijacked/blown up jet airliners,
and now
with the chechen terrorist now upping the ante by taking a school full of kids hostage (like the cowards they are), and Russia asking for a UN security council meeting...

We're about to see a big butt whipping by Russia in Chechnya...

Go Russia GO!
Terrorists/underground criminal organizations threaten to undermine you..
Dont let this happen

From an American to my Russian friends....good luck, god speed and protections as you crush this problem once and for all.

It will be painful when the cowards do indeed kill all those children, but dont let it deter you from killing every last one of those barbarians in that school,
then
take your just vengance down to chechnya and break their will to continue to behaive like animals.
You (Russia) will have a lot less political problems waging war like its supposed to be waged than we here in the states do...and somehow i think the USA isnt going to become an obstruction...in fact, you might get official support...

Even if you dont get it from our government
SOME Americans respect Russia as a former adversary, and now hopefully a friend.
Terrorists are a plague to us both...
look forward to continued good relations with you!
and together we can push back these terrorist, fundamentalist muslims that want to cut off ALL our heads.

Originally posted by CazMedia
Didnt i say this was comming how many months ago?

First two hijacked/blown up jet airliners,
and now
with the chechen terrorist now upping the ante by taking a school full of kids hostage (like the cowards they are), and Russia asking for a UN security council meeting...

We're about to see a big butt whipping by Russia in Chechnya...

Go Russia GO!
Terrorists/underground criminal organizations threaten to undermine you..
Dont let this happen

From an American to my Russian friends....good luck, god speed and protections as you crush this problem once and for all.

It will be painful when the cowards do indeed kill all those children, but dont let it deter you from killing every last one of those barbarians in that school,
then
take your just vengance down to chechnya and break their will to continue to behaive like animals.
You (Russia) will have a lot less political problems waging war like its supposed to be waged than we here in the states do...and somehow i think the USA isnt going to become an obstruction...in fact, you might get official support...

Even if you dont get it from our government
SOME Americans respect Russia as a former adversary, and now hopefully a friend.
Terrorists are a plague to us both...
look forward to continued good relations with you!
and together we can push back these terrorist, fundamentalist muslims that want to cut off ALL our heads.

You just got my "Way Above" vote! Way to pick up on this very serious issue even before it became so mainstream!!!

It the Russian governemnt fueling the war. The damn oligarchs there are selling weapons to the terrorists in Chechnya and making money, and if anyone tries to stop them they will be killed. Who do you think killed the chechen leader and why

While its known that Russia sells alot of weapons,
it is what it being DONE with themby sepratist islamic fundamentalist terrorists thats the problem...
not everyone that buys or owns or even sells weapons has ever used one.

Originally posted by CazMedia
1991
Soviet Union collapses, 14 regions become independent nations. Dzhokhar Dudayev elected president of Chechnya. Dudayev declares Chechnya independent. Russian President Boris Yeltsin refuses to recognize Chechen independence, sends troops. Confronted by armed Chechens, troops withdraw.
THIS SHOWS THAT CHECHNYA WAS A PART OF RUSSIA (SINCE ITS ASSIMILATION IN 1923)

And I believe America was part of the British Empire until 1776, when 13 of it's North American colonies rose up and fought for their independence.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by cargo]

History is full of "changing of the guard" examples.
yet we established a DEMOCRACY
while chechen rebels want to establish a muslim fundamentalist theocracy, one where civil rights can be removed not encouraged, one where opponents are silenced in mass graves, not given rights to protest.

America also attacked MILLITARY targets, not innocent schools full of kids.

The choice is clear, and Russia will quash this soon enough, with the USA looking the other way.

It was pointed out, I think on these boards, that the American war of independence was not a war fought for democracy. I am not American so I am going to need to look into this some more, I don't have time right now and am about the go out for the evening. Perhaps you or someone else can enlighten me.

And yes, Russia certainly does now have terrorists senslessly killing children in a school hostage situation, and it is absolutely terrible. But itis many years after Russia declared the war over, and the terrorist networks throughout the mid east have been able to take advantage of the situation in Chechnya. Back in the 90's those who were rebels became labelled as terrorists. Now, apparently, the terrorist group responsible for this school hostage crisis contained a significant amount of arabs and at least one member from the african continent.

Read RDK72's paragraph again.

Originally posted by RDK72
What we have in Chechenya is the purest form of genocide and it is still happening in the 21st century. Imagine, after destroying Chechen and its government, Russia declared that the war had ended- doing so the freedom fighters of Chetchen were labeled as terrorist and the slaughter began. Red Cross and other organisations can be held away from the country, because officially there is no war!

Its nearly 15 years since they first declared their independence. The years are mounting up and it is clear how desperate the situation is becoming. By trying to paint Russia's performance in this war as somewhat cleaner than the Chechnyans is stretching it. I think it would be fair to say that they have been equally barbaric. I remember reading some horrific reports a few years back but it's been so long I would need to spend some time digging through the net.

I am making no apologies for anyone. Merely looking at both points of view. That is the least I can do. Not all chechnyans are terrorist scum, but send a division of hell bent Russian soldiers into their towns where children see their parents murdered in the street and you can be sure that is exactly what they will become.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by cargo]

no nation is really going to make much of a protest to Russian actions in Chechnya because of the terrorist attacks and the Russians can claim they are in the same boat as the Americans, which gives them as much right as the US does to "crackdown" on them.

9/11 changed the world and made the Chechen conflict acceptable.

That said, go Russia and get those criminals!

drfunk