An FYI on illegals "not" paying taxes...

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by double_frick

 

I think our best solution to this problem is to make it easier for people to come to America. Not to deny people a better life because they can't afford one. It's really a catch-22 when you think about it. You want to move here because Mexico isn't conducive to raising a family on adequate resources/finances, but you have to have resources/finances to come to a place that will allow you access to those resources/finances.

americans on social programs like food stamps are vilified, but its honorable for illegals to come over and be on the social programs because their country cannot, does not or the individual cannot attain the means to support their (often times large) family seems a bit hypocritical of americans, or the far left, anyway. lol
at least these dead beat americans that leech off the system have likely paid into, or their parents have, that should make it a little more tolerable for regular americans to get a little help when they need it for THEIR families but instead these people are the scum of society and taken from their neighbor by being on these programs.
mexicans are not stray puppies. they are adults like me and you. they can take care of themselves.

i don't know when people started thinking life is supposed to be fair. its not. if we want to really be fair why don't we take the money we would be paying for these illegals and their family to live here for free and then some on saving families in other countries from genocide and the atrocities they face every day with no outside assistance, no escape and not even any acknowledgment of their troubles.

and again.
these people come over to make a better life but don't live any different than when they were in mexico.

reply to post by double_frick


Well, I think I've been pretty good about not using the racist card or implying that people are racist because, for the most part I do not find that to be true at all.

There are some a-holes out there though who think only people born on American soil have a right to be here.

I do think there are many valid points to be made in the illegal immigrant debate, but I think there are also a lot of misconceptions based on information gained from biased sources. I don't think that illegal immigration is a problem in itself; I think it only helps to compound a problem we already have and will continue to have regardless of whether illegals are here or not and that is not enough resources, too many people.

I chose to make the topic about taxes because it is one of the biggest arguments used against illegals. And as we can see from the testimonies of others in this thread, the gentleman's example I use in my OP isn't an isolated incident. Obviously not all illegals are so obliged to do their part. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, neither are many Americans, for richer or poorer.

It also bothers me that the only solution that many people seem to fall back on is to build a multi-billion dollar fence to keep them out instead of embracing these people as shining examples of what America can do for even the most worst off people in other countries.

It's just not a message I think we should send to the rest of the world..."WE DON'T WANT YOUR KIND HERE".

I'm not saying any of this pertains to you. In fact, you've been very cordial and rational. You've also made some very good points. We need more people like you on ATS. Thanks.

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by lpowell0627


Repeat after me: I will not further support and /or assist (financially or otherwise) those that have broken laws at the expense of others to simply help themselves to what they feel they are entitled to.....

Needing to provide for a family is not an entitlement. It is a necessity.

Is it right to throw a homeless man in jail for stealing food he disparately needs to survive.

I somehow assume you would say yes.

well, thats another issue altogether.
in america we do (luckily) still have programs for the homeless and hey, even the illegals, that if they need food they can usually find a way to get it legally...through social programs food kitchens, pan handling, etc.

but i do guarantee that if that homeless man did get caught stealing food (as long as he is a citizen) he will likely spend time in jail or at least get some fine...something. he would be HELD ACCOUNTABLE. starving or not.
not that its fair (not that it isn't) that is just LIFE. and if people cannot learn how to (as you or i do) follow the rules that are set in place in our society, i don't see a reason for them to be in it. i do not think there is an excuse, sorry. i know that children today are taught that there is a perfectly good EXCUSE for anything and everything, perfect. now all anyone has to do is be good at making excuses for their bad behavior and society looks past it. how chaotic, and for what, so we don't hurt jose's feelings by denying him things that most americans cannot get???

well, touche. i def. agree with everything you said.
the wall thing is just the americans being upset and (like chickens with their heads cut off) demanding the government do something about the problem the government obviously wanted in the first place. so the government does things that hurt he american wallet more for a cheap bandaid...

there are ways the government could be helping EVERYBODY instead of causing division and essentially hurting all sides and benefitting themselves in every sense of the word.


EDIT:
you know, i read before about the very expensive paper that citizenship is...
i wouldn't care, in fact, i may be in favor of making becoming a citizenship practically FREE or at least extremely cheap/affordable. i'm not clear on all the classes or tests they need to take and all, i do think they should have to take tests or classes to teach them american culture and policy, history that sort of thing. they should be set up with a tutor or a school program to learn english for FREE (all this while they should/could be allowed to be on our social programs as they would be anyway, at least that would ease my mind of them being on social programs. what better reason than for them to NEED the social services so they can more easily make the life they came here to make. very hard to do when you are stuck for hours a day in the back of a kitchen working with others who don't speak english to do anyhting but that menial job for the rest of their lives here.

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

Originally posted by double_frick


there are ways the government could be helping EVERYBODY instead of causing division and essentially hurting all sides and benefitting themselves in every sense of the word.


EDIT:
you know, i read before about the very expensive paper that citizenship is...
i wouldn't care, in fact, i may be in favor of making becoming a citizenship practically FREE or at least extremely cheap/affordable.

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

Bingo and bingo!

We may disagree on some of the what the problems and issues are regarding illegals but, fundamentally, we agree on the solutions and I think that's what matters the most.

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by double_frick


there are ways the government could be helping EVERYBODY instead of causing division and essentially hurting all sides and benefitting themselves in every sense of the word.


EDIT:
you know, i read before about the very expensive paper that citizenship is...
i wouldn't care, in fact, i may be in favor of making becoming a citizenship practically FREE or at least extremely cheap/affordable.

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

Bingo and bingo!

We may disagree on some of the what the problems and issues are regarding illegals but, fundamentally, we agree on the solutions and I think that's what matters the most.

I'm with you guys. Instead of turning a blind eye to illegals, we need to focus on the solution because, and I think most of us agree on this, the current system does not work.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Talking about the true make him a traitor? I don't think so. Close the eyes to the facts and believe what the media make you believe make people ignorant

I don't know if the quote was sweet or not but it goes with the topic, and don't worry your sarcasms doesn't bother me..

Good luck.

Originally posted by double_frick

Originally posted by nunya13


well, thats another issue altogether.
in america we do (luckily) still have programs for the homeless and hey, even the illegals, that if they need food they can usually find a way to get it legally...through social programs food kitchens, pan handling, etc.

but i do guarantee that if that homeless man did get caught stealing food (as long as he is a citizen) he will likely spend time in jail or at least get some fine...something. he would be HELD ACCOUNTABLE. starving or not. not that its fair (not that it isn't) that is just LIFE. and if people cannot learn how to (as you or i do) follow the rules that are set in place in our society, i don't see a reason for them to be in it. i do not think there is an excuse, sorry. i know that children today are taught that there is a perfectly good EXCUSE for anything and everything, perfect. now all anyone has to do is be good at making excuses for their bad behavior and society looks past it. how chaotic, and for what, so we don't hurt jose's feelings by denying him things that most americans cannot get???

well, touche. i def. agree with everything you said.
the wall thing is just the americans being upset and (like chickens with their heads cut off) demanding the government do something about the problem the government obviously wanted in the first place. so the government does things that hurt he american wallet more for a cheap bandaid...

there are ways the government could be helping EVERYBODY instead of causing division and essentially hurting all sides and benefitting themselves in every sense of the word.


EDIT:
you know, i read before about the very expensive paper that citizenship is...
i wouldn't care, in fact, i may be in favor of making becoming a citizenship practically FREE or at least extremely cheap/affordable. i'm not clear on all the classes or tests they need to take and all, i do think they should have to take tests or classes to teach them american culture and policy, history that sort of thing. they should be set up with a tutor or a school program to learn english for FREE (all this while they should/could be allowed to be on our social programs as they would be anyway, at least that would ease my mind of them being on social programs. what better reason than for them to NEED the social services so they can more easily make the life they came here to make. very hard to do when you are stuck for hours a day in the back of a kitchen working with others who don't speak english to do anyhting but that menial job for the rest of their lives here.

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

[edit on 9/16/2009 by double_frick]

I'm not sure where exactly in the US Illegal immnigrants can get away with stealing, killing or accidentens, but here in California I seen illegal people on jail and paying fines even if after that, they get deported.

That's what make all this topic worse, if you see one person that is here ilegally, getting away with something a real citizen wouldn't, then people just generalized or assume that all of them do it..